Phase42,weren’t you the one to pose the question of why we park in a driveway and drive in a parkway?
Sgt Schwartz
There is another film out there about some guys trying to save horses by taking them to Canada or something. Anyhow, in one scene the hero has to shoot a bunch of them, so he hauls out his 1911 A1 .45 cal semiauto, jacks a round into the chamber…BANG!..kills a horse. He grimly moves to the next horse, jacks the slide again…BANG!..kills another horse. Repeats this a number of times. I figure his mag was empty by the third horse.
Neat! A perfect picture of the mechanism, with the safety bar in question highlighted in red.
Thanks.
Generally speaking, a lot of “movie” gun-handling is a mishmash of different techniques, often not applicable to the weapon in question and even when they are, often bad.
The action of cocking *the hammer * (not necessarily racking the slide) on a handgun “for effect”, is a carry-over from Westerns and early gangster films – old-time revolvers were single-action, you *had * to manually cock the hammer to shoot.
There are some modern pistols that allow you to “decock” the hammer with a round in the chamber into a hammer-down-but-pin-locked safe position. But the way you’re supposed to operate them then is NOT by manually re-cocking the hammer, but by just firing it double-action, with a longer/harder first trigger pull.
In real-world practical terms, you **don’t ** want to half-cock the gun you’re pointing at someone for purposes of intimidation, because then if you slip or sumble you’ll be likelier to have it discharge and then you killed him before he could tell you what you wanted to know!
No, it’s not. You’re describing two seperate things. “Cocking” is simply pulling the hammer back. That’s it. Manipulating the slide to load a round is called “loading”, “chambering”, “charging” or even “racking the slide”. Racking the slide has the effect of also cocking the hammer. But that doesn’t make them the same thing.
Possibly, but then you’d both be wrong.
"Cocking or recocking an automatic would not result in the loss of anything. You can do it all day long. Cock, decock, cock, decock, cock, decock… no rounds lost, no harm, no foul.
Same with a revolver. You can cock and decock all day long.
No. It doesn’t. Where have you ever read that?
I’m an NRA Certified Range Safety Officer, and a US Army Range Safety Officer, so I am really aware of safety. I would never load five rounds into something that should hold 6 or more simply because it sounds “safer”. This sounds as bad as making semiautos safer by banning 15 round mags and limiting them to only 10 rounds. 5 less, so it’s much safer. :rolleyes:
No, what you really do is carry five bullets and have a rolled-up $10 bill in the sixth chamber to pay the undertaker.
Some types of revolvers, mostly single action, are designed so that the firing pin protrudes into the cylinder chamber when the hammer is down. If the chamber was loaded, this would mean the pin was resting directly on the primer, which would be an accident waiting to happen. So that’s where the empty chamber tradition started. Most revolvers today have various mechanisms so that the pin only can hit the primer when the trigger is actually pulled.
I’m less clear on the thinking behind semiautomatics being single or double action. Is the following correct? :My W.A.G. is that originally single action semis were to minimize the chances of a round going off, by not having a round chambered until you actually worked the slide. This would mean that you couldn’t safely carry a single-action in ready to shoot mode. Double action semis use various safety mechanisms to allow the gun to be safely carried with a round chambered. However I seem to recall that the capacity of some single action semis is sometimes given as “+1” e.g. the 1911 ACP has a capacity of 8+1, because in theory you can chamber a round and then top up the magazine. Am I understanding this correctly?
Back in the day, I had a job where I had to carry a .38 revolver. I was taught to have the 1st chamber empty for the reason that Lumpy mentioned. Old school, over safety conscious, probably.
I’m not a gun expert but I did get pretty good at firing a revolver and an old Winchester lever action rifle.
Early semi-auto pistols were Single Action. This was for simplicity, and because of the limits of modern engineering at the time. It was not for safety.
Double-Action (DA/SA) semiautos came out later as technology improved. They were thought to be “safer” for carry. Then Double Action Only came along to be even safer.
The “+1” thing is sometimes given for all semiautos not just Single Action or Double-Action or DAO. After loading any semiauto, you can remove the magazine and add another round.
Hmmm. Single Action pistols also use various safety mechanisms to allow the gun to be safely carried with a round chambered. “Ready to shoot” for a semiauto normally meant a round in the chamber, the hammer cocked, and the safety locked. You could also carry it with no round in the chamber. You’d have to rack the slide to chamber a round and cock the pistol, before firing.
Actually, this statement is literally true. Virtually all of the diegetic sounds–those that appear to come from the environment being filmed (as opposed to voice-overs, music tracks, et cetera)–are actually dubbed in later by foley artists, many times using a sound or an agglomeration of sounds that are often generated by means very dissimilar from what the product represents. An effect of this is that sounds are often amplified or modified in a way that makes them seem more theatrical–tires squealing on a gravel road, for instance–or are added for dramatic effect, sometimes (and quite amusingly) having the sound of a racking slide or cocking hammer when the character doesn’t actually perform any of these actions. The pointless remake of The Getaway was rife with this sort of thing, as I recall.
Regarding the empty chamber discussion: it’s true that virtually all post-Seventies revolvers (single and double action) and most good quality centerfire semi-automatics manufactured since 1980 have what is called a firing pin block, transfer bar safety, or something similar, which prevents the firing pin from moving forward and striking the primer of a chambered round unless the trigger is actually pulled. (Some earlier firearms had other safety mechanisms, but they were not particularly reliable against drop discharges.) So it is perfectly acceptible and safe to carry a Ruger GP-100 revolver or a Sig P220 autoloader with a round in the chamber with confidence that it will not accidentially discharge. It is not so assured, however, that you carry a Browning Hi-Power Mark I or a Ruger (Old Model) Blackhawk revolver with a loaded chamber. While the likelyhood of discharge is low, if the firearm is dropped on its muzzle it could impart enough force to discharge. Cheap, straight-blowback firearms often lack a passive safety, and the same is frequently true for target and competition handguns (in the latter case, to keep the trigger pull as light and even as possible). Many shotguns, rifles, and submachine guns also lack a firing pin block.
So, while it can’t be stated as an absolute rule that you should not carry a firearm with a loaded chamber, you should be familiar with the safety features (and modifications made to them by previous owners) with any firearm you carry and use. For most modern, unmodified service handguns, carrying with a chambered round is a non-issue for safety. (This assumes, of course, that the carrier is conscientious enough to obey Rule #3:“Keep your finger off the trigger until the sights are on the target.” If he cannot, then no amount of safety devices will render the arm “safe”.)
To the OP’s question, any time someone sticks a gun in your face you probably shouldn’t laugh whether they’ve cocked it or not, unless, of course, you see water dripping out of the muzzle. It’s be a shame to lose you because you were laughing at a crook pointing an uncocked 1911 at you only to discover that it was actually a Double Eagle. I mean, a double action Colt 1911 is a silly idea, of course (with apologies to Para-Ordnance) but it’ll still kill you all the same.
Stranger
Slight nitpick The standard magazine for the 1911A1 is seven rounds, so you can add one to the chamber, then top up the mag for a total of eight rounds carried. Of course there are extended mags that carry ten, that you can top off for a total of 11 rounds carried, but they stick out of the bottom of the gun and spoil the lines of the firearm. :rolleyes:
But then… how would you make your dramatic speech in which you reveal the true scope of your evil plans, and your own infallibility in executing them such that there is no possible way your target could do anything to stop you now? (of course, he couldn’t possibly have an ally/sidekick who steps in at this exact moment to save him)
The answer is you couldn’t, my friend, you couldn’t. Need to think about these things.
True enough that you can cock an automatic with an exposed hammer by simply pulling the hammer back, but with a fresh magazine and nothing in the chamber I can’t think of a more efficient way to prepare to fire than racking the slide. You could cock it by pulling the hammer back, but with nothing in the chamber, what’s the point?
Oh! Wait! I remember now. We’re in the movies.
You’re right though, Bear that “cocking” and “racking the slide” are not necessarily synonymous as one may have thought from my previous post.
Phone Booth
The movies … the sound is for dramatic effect. Just like the Bride on Kill Bill being blown back about 20 feet after getting both barrels from a shotgun. Good look, bad physics.
Of course, someone pumping a shell into a 12 gauge shotgun is dramatic and highly respected and not just in the movies.
It makes less sense for an automatic pistol.
You can carry a 45 auto with nothing in the chamber and the hammer down. You have to work the slide to chamber a round and cock the hammer. Though it’s a safe way to go, it takes time so people who carry 45s often don’t do it that way.
Some go “cocked and locked” - a round is chambered and the hammer is cocked and the safety is on. Let the safety off and you’re all set. Not dramatic but fast. For those who think they may need that 45, this is what a lot of them do.
You can also have a round chambered and the hammer down. You then have to cock the hammer, etc. Being safety concious, having the hammer down with a round in the chamber makes be nervous though newer handguns are more safe in this regard.
This is why a lot of police, etc. went to the Glock - it’s less complicated.
The reason you’d want to cock a double action revolver is because it will usually be more accurate when you shoot it. Pulling the trigger can throw your aim off - if you cock the trigger first, you’ll minimize the amount you’ll need to pull the trigger when you shoot.
snerk
Who taught you that? J.B. Brooks?
And where did you work? Tombstone in the 19th century?
Modern revolvers are perfectly safe to carry with all chambers of the cylinder loaded.
I’m an instructor myself, in fact we just had a class yesterday re-certing armed security officers. Some of the comments made on this thread are almost as ignorant as some of the stuff I see in the movies.
One thing that bugs the shit out of me is when someone in the movies is firing a semi-auto and runs out of ammo and the pistol goes clickclick* as they pull the trigger when in real life it wouldn’t as the slide stays open on most semi-pistols.
“It’s just a movies Bietz” my wife always reminds me as I’m screaming at the screen. 
There’s an example of this in Aliens but you can just assume Gorman has some ultrafuturisticky automatic with an electronic triggering mechanism of some kind.