# Cockney Rhyming Slang Rules? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 7, 2013, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cockney-rhyming-slang-rules/675725 "2013-12-07T03:09:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 1\ **Showing post:** 38
**Author:** ![vontsira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/51bf81/32.png) [@vontsira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vontsira)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cockney-rhyming-slang-rules/675725/38 "2013-12-10T20:42:46Z")
Thanks, to all commenters ! > [@UDS](#): > > “Pom” for an Englishman is not recorded before the early twentieth century; long after the convict era had ended. > > Pomegranates grow readily in Australia, and I doubt they were a rarity a hundred years ago. But, even if they were regarded as slightly foreign, might that not _intensify_ a pomegranate/immigrant allusion? With the fruit thus easily grown in Australia – and the whole thing seen as coming about long after convict times – “I get you”. I’ve perhaps been fixating on the accounts often heard, of the first convict settlements: their being pathetically ill-conceived, and poorly equipped to support themselves in any way or grow anything, let alone exotic luxury fruits. > [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > “Pom” is one of those words for which I fear the true etymology has gone the way of the Tasmanian Tiger and no-one really knows any more. If only the poor old Tazzy Tiger might be – against most hope and probability – discovered still alive and well in the wild: I’d value that far above learning the true-and-for-certain derivation of “Pom” ! > [@Is this evidence of money laundering?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-evidence-of-money-laundering/650477/18): > > One of the folk explanations I’ve heard is that the convicts had jackets with “POHM” (Prisoner of His/Her Majesty) emblazoned on the back, but that never happened (the convicts who were uniforms had broad arrows stamped on them), so that’s not correct. The general picture I get, is that acronym-based folk etymology from any time predating World War II, is almost certain to be fallacious. > [@What's your Musical Safety Net?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-musical-safety-net/81179/11): > > I’ve heard the Pomegranate/Immigrant connection before too, sometimes with an addendum about the British arrivals rapidly turning red (like pomegranate seeds) from spending so much time in the sun (London not being noted for its regularly sunny and smog-free weather the way Australia was/is). The similar version of “Pom” coming from the French “pomme” (apple) (which were typically red, much as the immigrants because from spending too much time in the sun) also seems unlikely because, among other things, the sort of people living in Australia at the time weren’t generally noted for their Francophone tendencies. > > The short answer is: No-one knows for sure but I wouldn’t be surprised if somewhere along the line it was a corruption of a (possibly not very complimentary) Aboriginal word. > > An interesting datapoint: Brits are (usually affectionately) known as “Poms” in New Zealand too, which is noted for neither a convict heritage or its expansive pomegranate plantations; the term undoubtedly made its way across the Tasman from Australia. It would seem indeed that probably we’ll never know for sure, about this one ! > [@mascaroni](#): > > I think the word comes from Arras, the French area which was on the Western Front in WW1. A derivation of of the English slang word"arse". Plaster of Paris / Arras – with a “French connection” to boot – one to like ! It’s generally felt that the simpler explanation for something, is likelier to be right, than the more abstruse and complicated one. > [@mascaroni](#): > > Again. it’s just speculative, but it has been suggested that British emigrants to Australia rapidly turned a pomegranate colour after being exposed to the sun. > BTW, not an Aussie, but a fan of Bill Bryson:) My sentiments about Bryson are of the “little girl with the little curl” kind. > [@RobDog](#): > > Hmmm. Not too sure about this. Although I’d be surprised if the typical Cockney had a close familiarity with Aristotle’s work, I wouldn’t be surprised if they recognised his name which, after all, is all that’s required to use it in a rhyme. > > It’s not the only example of a classical reference in CRS either… cf. Brahms and Liszt. I’d like to feel that I was wrong in my cultural snobbery. I do wonder, though – Brahms and Liszt – maybe invented in recent decades by switched-on educated types; becoming popular subsequently, among less cultivated folk who had never before heard of the musical gents concerned? (As ever, I’d be glad to be found wrong.) --- _[View the full topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cockney-rhyming-slang-rules/675725)._