# cockney rhyming slang **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 23, 2005, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cockney-rhyming-slang/286311 "2005-01-23T23:06:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mark\_question](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@mark\_question](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mark_question)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2005, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cockney-rhyming-slang/286311/1 "2005-01-23T23:06:20Z")
Why do Cockney’s rhyme in slang? ---
**Author:** ![groman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/73ab20/32.png) [@groman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groman)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2005, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cockney-rhyming-slang/286311/2 "2005-01-23T23:15:54Z")
Wait, are you asking why do they “slang” in “rhyme”, right? If so, it all stems from an attempt to make the slang unintelligible to others - not “in the know”. Rhyming is just one way to obscure the true meaning. As to how it evolved, I bet somebody more knowledgeable will come along and elaborate. - Groman ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2005, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cockney-rhyming-slang/286311/3 "2005-01-23T23:28:42Z")
I wish I could give you a pot of glue. ---
**Author:** ![Mathochist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c89c15/32.png) [@Mathochist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mathochist)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2005, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cockney-rhyming-slang/286311/4 "2005-01-23T23:39:45Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > I wish I could give you a pot of glue. I’m hoping you mean “clue” and not “Jew”. This is the problem, as I see it, with rhyming slang: there’s no standard, so only your own little group really knows what you mean. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cockney-rhyming-slang/286311/5 "2005-01-24T00:00:39Z")
That’s not a bug, it’s a feature – as **groman** observed. The more exclusive the better – the same way jive talkers igg the ickies, or… or… …whatever it is that those hip-hop kids are on about. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cockney-rhyming-slang/286311/6 "2005-01-24T00:11:22Z")
> [@Mathochist](#): > > I’m hoping you mean “clue” and not “Jew”. > > This is the problem, as I see it, with rhyming slang: there’s no standard, so only your own little group really knows what you mean. Well, no, actually there are some rather common and widespread ones that are generally understood. I have a Dictionary of Rhyming Slang which covers a lot of them. And you don’t usually say the entire phrase, just the first word, which _doesn’t_ rhyme with the word you mean. E.g., “plates,” for “plates of meat,” for feet; “raspberry,” for “raspberry tart,” for fart. An exception is “brass tacks,” for facts. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cockney-rhyming-slang/286311/7 "2005-01-24T01:11:48Z")
Slightly connected to the topic – this week I saw an ad for a console game with a London gang setting, and was surprised that they capped the commercial (which was mostly a montage of great in-game scenes,) with the line “Fancy a butcher’s?” How many North American gamers are going to get that at all? (Of course, it’d be a great “hook” for the ones that _do_. :D) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cockney-rhyming-slang/286311/8 "2005-01-24T01:14:18Z")
> [@](#): > > An exception is “brass tacks,” for facts. Not that we’ve ever seen a phrase origin traced back to measuring fabric, of course ;), but I had always heard that one as originating with brass tacks nailed into the top of a measuring table every yard or half-yard. You could just measure things out by armspans, or you could get down to brass tacks and do it precisely. Meanwhile, I can’t understand the development of rhyming slang, either. I just can’t picture some bloke saying to his chums “I’m going to go ask the folks on the Pontiff” “The what?” “You know, Pontiff, Pope, Dope” “Oh, OK, we’ll have to remember that one”. It just seems too tenuous. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cockney-rhyming-slang/286311/9 "2005-01-24T01:29:47Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Not that we’ve ever seen a phrase origin traced back to measuring fabric, of course ;), but I had always heard that one as originating with brass tacks nailed into the top of a measuring table every yard or half-yard. You could just measure things out by armspans, or you could get down to brass tacks and do it precisely. My _Dictionary of Rhyming Slang_ (by Julian Ranklyn, 1960) gives the origin as rhyming slang, though possibly an import from the USA. Perhaps **samclem** can resolve the issue. > [@](#): > > Meanwhile, I can’t understand the development of rhyming slang, either. I just can’t picture some bloke saying to his chums “I’m going to go ask the folks on the Pontiff” “The what?” “You know, Pontiff, Pope, Dope” “Oh, OK, we’ll have to remember that one”. It just seems too tenuous. That’s not how it works. You would say “bar” (of soap), or “tarry” (rope), - two examples for “dope” from my dictionary. It’s easier to see how this can develop - you use the full rhyming phrase until it becomes familiar, then drop the second word. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cockney-rhyming-slang/286311/10 "2005-01-24T01:31:51Z")
Sorry, the book is by Julian _Franklyn_ (at least it rhymes 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cockney-rhyming-slang/286311/11 "2005-01-24T06:00:08Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > You could just measure things out by armspans, or you could get down to brass tacks and do it precisely. Nononono… The brass monkeys beside each cannon were held to the deck of British navy ships with four inch tacks, also of brass. Ow! Ow! Stop! ---
**Author:** ![marky33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@marky33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marky33)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cockney-rhyming-slang/286311/12 "2005-01-24T09:44:44Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Meanwhile, I can’t understand the development of rhyming slang, either. I just can’t picture some bloke saying to his chums … > “Oh, OK, we’ll have to remember that one”. It just seems too tenuous. Having lived and worked in London pub and seeing the emergence of gems such as “Feeling a bit Brian” (Clough) = “Feeling a bit rough”, I would say this is exactly how it evolves. How else could it? ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cockney-rhyming-slang/286311/13 "2005-01-24T10:01:10Z")
Irish rhyming slang is just worse on so many levels. Within days of being launched the Luas, Dublin’s new tram system, was being referred to as the “Daniel Day”. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cockney-rhyming-slang/286311/14 "2005-01-24T16:19:39Z")
I believe a Cockney is someone born within the sound of Bow Bells. (I missed it myself by a few miles). It plays no significant part in English life. Just an amusing few pieces of slang…