# Code Adam and storekeeper's privilege **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 18, 2018, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/code-adam-and-storekeepers-privilege/826308 "2018-12-18T03:35:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2018, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/code-adam-and-storekeepers-privilege/826308/141 "2018-12-21T14:29:25Z")
One more thing: > [@pkbites](#): > > No it doesn’t. An agency can have qualifications in excess of state mandates. What state mandates? You claimed that state mandates are “an Associate Degree in Criminal Justice or Police Science or a Bachelor Degree in something else before one can even apply.” How can those same requirements be in excess of state mandates? ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2018, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/code-adam-and-storekeepers-privilege/826308/142 "2018-12-21T16:03:05Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > One more thing: > What state mandates? You claimed that state mandates are “an Associate Degree in Criminal Justice or Police Science or a Bachelor Degree in something else before one can even apply.” > > How can those same requirements be in excess of state mandates? Dude, What the fuck is your hard on with me? My state has made several changes to the training and standards requirement. I perused WILENET and couldn’t find the activation date for the mandatory education requirement prior to application. I was under the impression it was already enacted. It’s possible it has been and your cite is old news. Agencies routinely fail to update their website. But if it hasn’t been activated yet, it will soon. So I was a bit early. So what? They have already enacted no grace period for peace officers to complete in-service training prior to July 1st. Some have already been decertified because they missed the date. In years past they had extra time to cover it. No more. Why do you think an agency risks a lawsuit if it requires standards higher than the minimum? My agency requires a higher standard for in-service training (40 hours instead of 24) and a higher standard for pistol qualification (twice a year vs once, and extra exercises). Do you really think that if an agency required a masters degree to apply they’d lose a lawsuit? What are you basing this on? You don’t even live in Wisconsin. Wilenet is a state website with training and standards published. Show me where what I’ve posted is incorrect, with the exception of maybe the date of when the college qualifications are activated. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2018, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/code-adam-and-storekeepers-privilege/826308/143 "2018-12-21T16:46:21Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Dude, What the fuck is your hard on with me? I’m taking issue with factual statements you’ve made in GQ. Most you haven’t responded to despite several contradictions pointed out. > [@](#): > > My state has made several changes to the training and standards requirement. You claimed I was wrong before you even baldly stated that. When I pointed out that your claims appear to be a known myth based on a government website I linked to, you claimed: _“No it’s not a myth. your cites include 2 class A cities that do have different rules.”_ You mean, the biggest cities with the biggest populations? If they have different rules, then the state requirements you claimed don’t exist. I then pointed to a village where the requirements also don’t exist. A village that is not a class A city. Do you have evidence of class A cities having “different rules” in this regard? > [@](#): > > I perused WILENET and couldn’t find the activation date for the mandatory education requirement prior to application. I was under the impression it was already enacted. It’s possible it has been and your cite is old news. Agencies routinely fail to update their website. But if it hasn’t been activated yet, it will soon. So I was a bit early. So what? So what? You posted I was wrong and in the same breath said class A cities have different rules. That makes YOU wrong, not ME wrong, and that’s even if your claim is correct. You haven’t posted any evidence that this goes in effect in a couple of weeks. I think that would be posted on the internet somewhere and fairly easy to find. That’s a big increase in requirements for an entire state. > [@](#): > > They have already enacted no grace period for peace officers to complete in-service training prior to July 1st. Some have already been decertified because they missed the date. In years past they had extra time to cover it. No more. What does this have to do with anything? > [@](#): > > Why do you think an agency risks a lawsuit if it requires standards higher than the minimum? I didn’t say that. I tried to make that clear for you. I said this: _“not hiring someone because they don’t have a qualification **not necessary by that department’s listed qualifications** opens them up to a lawsuit.”_ > [@](#): > > You don’t even live in Wisconsin. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Here is a state website with training and standards. ([https://wilenet.org/](https://wilenet.org/)). Show me where what I’ve posted is incorrect, with the exception of maybe the date of when the college qualifications are activated. You want me to search through a website to prove you wrong? I already posted cites that do that. You are claiming that my cites are not up to date. Does your linked to website show that? If so, you quote that part and link to that page. You’re not going to answer the questions asked in post 137, are you? ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2018, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/code-adam-and-storekeepers-privilege/826308/144 "2018-12-21T23:24:37Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > I’m taking issue with factual statements you’ve made in GQ. Most you haven’t responded to despite several contradictions pointed out. 2 agency cites is hardly “several”. And as I said, if the new regs don’t go into effect until 2019 so I was a bit early. So what? Why does that get your bowels in an uproar? What is it about this topic that bugs you so? I had just talked to someone from T&S about 2 weeks ago that told me about the new regulations. I was under the impression that they had already been implemented. He was telling me how there have been too many cases of officers not getting the educational requirements after 5 years so they’re going to require it prior to hire. And then I listed some departments that are already doing that. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2018, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/code-adam-and-storekeepers-privilege/826308/145 "2018-12-21T23:49:26Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > 2 agency cites is hardly “several”. Is three? Because that’s what I posted. Would you like more? How many before it counts? Hell, even your cites don’t have the requirements you claimed. > [@](#): > > And as I said, if the new regs don’t go into effect until 2019 so I was a bit early. So what? I answered that already. > [@](#): > > Why does that get your bowels in an uproar? What is it about this topic that bugs you so? My bowels are fine, but I answered that already too, when it was you that sounded like you had a bowel issue. Has someone on the internet flustered you, Cupcake? > [@](#): > > I had just talked to someone from T&S about 2 weeks ago that told me about the new regulations. New regulations for the entire state that requires applicants have “either an Associate Degree in Criminal Justice or Police Science or a Bachelor Degree in something else before one can even apply”? And there’s nothing to be found on the internet regarding this? And when you told another poster that Wisconsin does have this unusual statewide requirement, what you meant to say was “there’s going to be the following requirement, someone told me so a couple weeks ago”? My cousin’s uncle’s nephew says he heard otherwise from a government worker in Wisconsin. Does that hold any weight? From earlier: Do you have evidence of class A cities having “different rules” in this regard? How does a non-requirement for highly populated cities not make your blanket statement wrong? You want me to search through a website to prove you wrong? I already posted cites that do that. You are claiming that my cites are not up to date. Does your linked to website show that? If so, you quote that part and link to that page. You’re not going to answer the questions asked in post 137, are you? ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2018, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/code-adam-and-storekeepers-privilege/826308/146 "2018-12-22T03:07:30Z")
Can we have one thread without this shit? Is it possible on this board? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2018, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/code-adam-and-storekeepers-privilege/826308/147 "2018-12-22T03:49:55Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Dude, What the fuck is your hard on with me? > [@pkbites](#): > > The public mission statement may make you feel all warm and fuzzy, Cupcake, but it’s not the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. > [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > My bowels are fine, but I answered that already too, when it was you that sounded like you had a bowel issue. Has someone on the internet flustered you, Cupcake? **Moderator Note** Let’s dial it way way back. And I don’t care who started it. Discuss this civilly or not at all. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2018, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/code-adam-and-storekeepers-privilege/826308/148 "2018-12-22T23:10:57Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > Wait a minute. If a crime is committed in a building, isn’t everyone inside at the time by definition a suspect? Yup. Ms. Scarlet, Professor Plum, even Mrs. White. Everyone. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2018, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/code-adam-and-storekeepers-privilege/826308/149 "2018-12-25T06:21:46Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > Has someone on the internet flustered you, Cupcake? You’ve been on these boards long enough to know well enough that I am not a cupcake, I am in fact sir a Ho-Ho. Please get it right. Going back to the OP, one of the things I learned when I participated in a Code Adam exercise was about security cameras. Some (not all) businesses have their security cameras run by an administrator in a centralized location (many of them in Minneapolis for some reason). This means that nobody at the local store, including head managers, have any access to video footage except real time. So it takes a bit of time to get to review the footage from stores that have such a set up. And I guess it takes more than just the manager making a call to get to view the video. The purpose of this is to maintain the integrity of the video which may become admissible evidence in criminal or civil cases. I knew banks used such systems but had been unaware that some stores do to. This was all told to me verbally, so no cite to link to. ---
**Author:** ![sbunny8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@sbunny8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sbunny8)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2018, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/code-adam-and-storekeepers-privilege/826308/150 "2018-12-25T23:10:01Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Maybe I am missing something obvious, but if any door (no matter what you call the door) cannot be locked, what is to keep thieves out after closing time? Speaking as a Certified Master Locksmith… They’re talking about locks whose INSIDE mechanism can be disabled. The vast majority of door locks are not capable of doing this; the inside mechanism always operates, without a key. There do exist locks whose inside mechanisms can be disabled; the familiar double cylinder deadbolt is a common example. This is the type of lock that is normally forbidden in retail establishments, but the fire code allows an exception (on the front door only), provided that a sign there says “This door to remain unlocked during business hours” or something similar. This exception may be revoked by the AHJ – Authority Having Jurisdiction (typically the local Fire Marshall). > [@ZonexandScout](#): > > Section 1010.1 of the IBC is rarely amended locally. Here, for example is the 2015 version of the requirements for Group M occupancies: > \*\*\*1010.1.9.3 Locks and latches. Locks and latches shall be permitted to prevent operation of doors where any of > the following exist: > > 1. Places of detention or restraint. > 2. In buildings in occupancy Group A having an occupant load of 300 or less, Groups B, F, M and S, and in places of religious worship, the main door or doors are permitted to be equipped with key-operated locking devices from the egress side provided: > 2.1. The locking device is readily distinguishable as locked. > 2.2. A readily visible durable sign is posted on the egress side on or adjacent to the door > stating: THIS DOOR TO REMAIN UNLOCKED WHEN THIS SPACE IS OCCUPIED. The sign shall be in letters 1 > inch (25 mm) high on a contrasting background. > 2.3. The use of the key-operated locking device is revokable by the building official for due cause. \*\*\* > Notice that the main doors in a Group M (Mercantile) occupancy must remain unlocked while the space is occupied. Other egress doors (usually at the sides or rear of the building) may NOT be locked from the egress side at all. I disagree. The code you quoted here absolutely does NOT say the the doors may not be locked. It says the door is required to have a particular kind of sign. That’s it. The code is completely silent about whether anyone has to obey the sign, or what the penalty might be for disobeying it. What is to stop a store from obtaining the exception, installing the locks and the sign exactly as the code requires, and then ignoring the sign and locking the doors whenever they feel like it? The only remedy I can see is that the AHJ could revoke their exception. The AHJ can do that for any reason, or for no reason at all. But it’s not correct to say that locking the door violates the fire code. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2019, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/code-adam-and-storekeepers-privilege/826308/151 "2019-01-01T05:17:54Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > I’m sad to here that. Further more, you mean it takes 2-4 years to become a cop?? Seems excessive for what they are paid (around here, YMMV) As a point of reference, cops just graduating the Academy in Denver only need a diploma or GED and they make 10K more than a starting Denver teacher with a bachelor’s degree and credential. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/code-adam-and-storekeepers-privilege/826308.md?page=7)