# Codebreakers: Help Sir Lionel Save the World! **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 22, 2017, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/codebreakers-help-sir-lionel-save-the-world/782779 "2017-03-22T18:54:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/codebreakers-help-sir-lionel-save-the-world/782779/1 "2017-03-22T18:54:14Z")
The U.S. Central Security Service has come upon a coded message that may present grave danger. Afraid to trust their country’ own codebreakers, they turn to the British MI6. But MI6’s master cryptologist, Sir Lionel M. Drake, is adrift in the South Seas with his latest girlfriend and has thrown away his GPS. Can you fill in for Sir Lionel and read the secret message? All you have to go on is a list of 16 peculiar words. (WARNING: I like to err on the side of “too difficult.” 🆒 I can always provide hints as needed.) ARc astuTe clEAnner DUELiSST Giantist HECtOR itcHIer LeAGUE lEEWAARD meOw nautCH NEcK PHONEY sigNage sKIp vIvant ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/codebreakers-help-sir-lionel-save-the-world/782779/2 "2017-03-23T00:27:06Z")
Sorry. Let me repeat the word list with a font that better distinguishes Upper-case I from lower-case L. ARc astuTe clEAnner DUELiSST Giantist HECtOR itcHIer LeAGUE lEEWAARD meOw nautCH NEcK PHONEY sigNage sKIp vIvant ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/codebreakers-help-sir-lionel-save-the-world/782779/3 "2017-03-23T00:30:51Z")
And just how did YOU come across this Super secret message? And doesn’t Sir Lionel have an understudy? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/codebreakers-help-sir-lionel-save-the-world/782779/4 "2017-03-23T01:29:33Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > And just how did YOU come across this Super secret message? And doesn’t Sir Lionel have an understudy? 😛 With the Anglophone intelligence services in disarray, due to Brexit on one side of the Pond and Drumpfgak on the other, the agent who found the messages just passed them on to Wikileaks in desperation; so I’m doing a public service by reposting here. And yes, Sir Lionel has an understudy, Wing Commander T. Bascombe, but that voluptuary was last seen chained up in a dungeon at the Poseidon Complex on Ratchadamri Road and won’t resurface for weeks. _ **The matter is very urgent.** _ ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/codebreakers-help-sir-lionel-save-the-world/782779/5 "2017-03-23T01:34:07Z")
Ok, I’ll dig out my ovaltine decoder ring that has been blessed by the ghost of red ryder to +3. That, and my crytography skill of 12, I 'll roll the dice and… _rolls an 8_ ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/codebreakers-help-sir-lionel-save-the-world/782779/6 "2017-03-23T01:59:51Z")
The word list contains no B, F, J, Q, X, or Z That suggests to me we are not looking for letter substitution. These more obscure letters (well B and F are not really all that uncommon, but they are not Scrabble 1-point letters either) would show up in any code based on counting or adding/subtracting letters. My count shows exactly 48 lower case letters, and 48 upper case letters. That cannot be coincidence. The alphabetical listing of words seems likely to be the wrong order. ---
**Author:** ![hammos1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ba8739/32.png) [@hammos1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hammos1)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/codebreakers-help-sir-lionel-save-the-world/782779/7 "2017-03-23T09:08:51Z")
I make it 49 lower case letters and 48 upper case. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/codebreakers-help-sir-lionel-save-the-world/782779/8 "2017-03-23T14:24:17Z")
> [@hammos1](#): > > I make it 49 lower case letters and 48 upper case. Sigh. I used to be able to count. Why would this list be in alphabetical order? ---
**Author:** ![Ignotus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecc23a/32.png) [@Ignotus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignotus)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/codebreakers-help-sir-lionel-save-the-world/782779/9 "2017-03-23T15:46:34Z")
This might be a red herring, but I wonder if the misspellings are somehow “forced” by the need to fill in letters according to some rule akin to anagrams? ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/codebreakers-help-sir-lionel-save-the-world/782779/10 "2017-03-23T16:19:20Z")
> [@Ignotus](#): > > This might be a red herring, but I wonder if the misspellings are somehow “forced” by the need to fill in letters according to some rule akin to anagrams? I agree that the misspellings are forced. I doubt red herring. If the whole message is an anagram, where upper and lower case letters somehow alternate, then a pattern of “xXxXxXxX…x” would yield a result with exactly one less upper case letter than lower. #### **septimus** , can we conclude that the intended receiver of the message would know how the code works and would be able to solve it easily? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/codebreakers-help-sir-lionel-save-the-world/782779/11 "2017-03-23T19:35:37Z")
The code has some strong similarities to **hammos1** ’ _Codebreaking puzzle- Breach at Whitehall_, but will be [del]somewhat[/del] significantly more difficult to decipher whether you know the method or not. The first task is to put the words into proper order. To do that, think “major sort / minor sort.” Those sending the messages really are evil. Wikileaks is sending me another coded message right now, with a a secret message so scandalous that _I ask solvers to be careful about displaying its solution in cleartext._ SDMB doesn’t need U.S. law enforcement breathing down its neck. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/codebreakers-help-sir-lionel-save-the-world/782779/12 "2017-03-23T19:45:34Z")
These evil-doers have yet another nefarious plot in progress! The next message was found with a handwritten note: _“They caught on to the lack of X’s so I added some. Ignore them when reading the message.”_ Other than that, the message consisted solely of another typewritten list of words: aftERburm aGreed xaphID APRONLy xARMPIT xxbOGUS boURBON xCAHIL deniaL dIANa xeARLY xeaRTH xECHO ECLAirs xxxFLOOR GLItch glOria ximpAINED xkniT knOPF xxXXNEED negAtion nuKE PAin xxpaRCEL xpraiRIES xxxxpSYCHO xxstoOLS STORMier vEAl When wherEAT xxwhiRL ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/codebreakers-help-sir-lionel-save-the-world/782779/13 "2017-03-24T00:55:35Z")
I suddenly realized that **hammos1** ’ code-breaking puzzle may have been much easier for me NOT due to any code-breaking skill, but simply due to my work habits. A similar (but weaker) effect may apply to the code-breaking in this thread. I hardly use paper and pencil anymore, preferring text editor. This makes many tasks simple that would be very tedious with paper and pencil. And I use _vi_, which facilitates many tasks that would be tedious in a text editor like _MSWord_. (Is it convenient to sort a set of lines in Word? Or to separate words into lines, or combine them?) While exploring **hammos1** ’ puzzle, I even used the editor to manipulate the words so I could sort them on a different field. And, like most old hackers, I’m happy to do my text editing in a fixed-pitch font. Reading out the secret message in **hammos1** ’ puzzle would be a little more difficult with variable-pitch fonts, let alone handwriting. My puzzle may be somewhat less dependent on such “work habits” than **hammos1** ’ puzzle. But in forgetting that a preference for an environment like _vi_ or _emacs_ is not universal, I may have underestimated the difficulty of these puzzles. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/codebreakers-help-sir-lionel-save-the-world/782779/14 "2018-02-14T16:49:20Z")
It has been almost a year. I was reminded of this puzzle in the [53 Bicycles](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=830631) thread (posts starting at #2458). So can anyone help shed light on this assuming the “grave danger” can still be avoided? I am lost. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/codebreakers-help-sir-lionel-save-the-world/782779/15 "2018-02-14T19:30:00Z")
I notice that the message in #12 has six words with 1 capitalized letter, six words with 2 capitalized letters, six words with 3 capitalized letters, six words with 4 capitalized letters, and six words with 5 capitalized letters — the remaining words each have 6 capitalized letters. But the message in #2 doesn’t conform to this, nor does the message in “53 bicycles.” I think the capitalization is being used for the same purpose in each message, but the specifics vary. ---
**Author:** ![hammos1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ba8739/32.png) [@hammos1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hammos1)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/codebreakers-help-sir-lionel-save-the-world/782779/16 "2018-04-03T00:30:22Z")
Based on the [puzzle poem](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=849344) thread, I have come up with the following arrangement of message #1 that yields something coherent - I don’t understand the method fully, though (how is the ‘sorting’ order determined?): [SPOILER]Reorder words and read alternate letters: ```php Giantist init vIvant iat sigNage ing astuTe att ARc ac sKIp kp lEAnner lanr itcHIer the nautCH nuc lEEWAARD lear LeAGUE lau NEcK nc HECtOR hco DUELiSST deis PHONEY poe meOw mo ``` [/SPOILER] ---
**Author:** ![hammos1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ba8739/32.png) [@hammos1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hammos1)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/codebreakers-help-sir-lionel-save-the-world/782779/17 "2018-04-03T11:04:29Z")
Ah, I get it now. Sort words by: 1- number of capital letters 2- position of first capital letter Then read alternate letters (ignore Xs in message 2). ```php When We aGreed are glOria goi negAtion ngto xkniT ki deniaL dna PAin pi vEAl va nuKE nk aftERburm atrum xaphID pI xxwhiRL wil GLItch lth dIANa in knOPF kof xeaRTH at wherEAT weet xxstoOLS tos ECLAirs car xECHO eh xeARLY ery xxbOGUS ou xxpaRCEL pre xpraiRIES pare STORMier some xCAHIL chl boURBON oro xxxFLOOR for ximpAINED mand xxxxpSYCHO sco APRONLy pol xARMPIT ami xxXXNEED ne ``` ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/codebreakers-help-sir-lionel-save-the-world/782779/18 "2018-04-03T14:19:23Z")
I think **hammos1** should be hired to replace the absent Sir Lionel.