# Coffee..and then 2nd degree murder!
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-and-then-2nd-degree-murder/335322
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [December 12, 2005, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-and-then-2nd-degree-murder/335322 "2005-12-12T22:00:44Z")
**Posts on this page:** 12
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@ltfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ltfire)
#### Post date: [December 12, 2005, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-and-then-2nd-degree-murder/335322/1 "2005-12-12T22:00:44Z")
From this story.
[http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051211/NEWS02/512110327/1018/NEWS02](http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051211/NEWS02/512110327/1018/NEWS02)
Good Lord, I am freaked out by this.
This kid, Lillo Brancato, sat in my kitchen having coffee, about three years ago.
My Nephew, who is in the movie business, dropped by one day with him
I was impressed by the kid. He was not the swaggering nasty punk he played in the movies. He was soft spoken and respectful. We took pictures, and wished him luck in the future
And now this.
Jesus H. Christ!
Today, he was indicted on 2nd. Degree murder charges. The guy he was with was the shooter. He was indicted on 1st and 2nd degree murder.
Once again, Jesus H. Christ!
Anybody know the difference between 1st and 2nd degree murder in New York?
Will he ever see the light of day again?
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### Author:  [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)
#### Post date: [December 12, 2005, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-and-then-2nd-degree-murder/335322/2 "2005-12-12T23:35:42Z")
> [@ltfire](#):
>
> Anybody know the difference between 1st and 2nd degree murder in New York?
> Will he ever see the light of day again?
If my faithful viewing of Law & Order is any indication, 1st degree usually means murder committed along with another crime, like kidnapping and murder. I think the murder of a cop is automatically first degree murder.
IANAL.
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### Author:  [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)
#### Post date: [December 12, 2005, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-and-then-2nd-degree-murder/335322/3 "2005-12-12T23:48:04Z")
The definition of [murder in the second degree in NY](http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/LAWSSEAF.cgi?QUERYTYPE=LAWS+&QUERYDATA=%24%24PEN125.25%24%24@TXPEN0125.25+&LIST=SEA32+&BROWSER=05506089+&TOKEN=54864291+&TARGET=VIEW). I believe the difference between the first and second degree is premeditation (first degree) vs intent (second degree).
It was my understanding that first degree murder is a capital crime, whereas second degree is not. I’m an Aussie though, so I’m no expert and will happily defer to **Bricker** , **Dewey** etc.
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### Author:  [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2005, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-and-then-2nd-degree-murder/335322/4 "2005-12-13T15:00:55Z")
> [@Atticus Finch](#):
>
> I believe the difference between the first and second degree is premeditation (first degree) vs intent (second degree).
Although that’s traditionally the case, I’m pretty sure New York has a weird definition that synchs up with what **ivylass** has said. But you’re right that 1st degree murder is a capital crime and 2d degree murder is not.
–Cliffy, Esq.
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### Author:  [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2005, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-and-then-2nd-degree-murder/335322/5 "2005-12-13T15:05:29Z")
If only you had served decaf, **ltfire** …
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### Author:  [@Logically\_Loquacious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Logically_Loquacious)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2005, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-and-then-2nd-degree-murder/335322/6 "2005-12-14T04:05:18Z")
Okay, here is the answer to your question regarding the difference between 1st and 2nd degree murder in New York. Penal law 125.27 is first degree murder. It is an intentional homicide of a party or third party and the homicide of the person and the victim is either a police officer, correctional employee, crime witness (intending to testify), judge, etc., or while in commission of another crime (rape, kidnapping, etc.), or with deparavity such as torture, or terrorism. Second degree murder, under Penal Law 125.25, is the intentional homicide of a party or third person with a depraved indifference to human life or when engaging in reckless conduct which creates a grave risk of death and does or during the commission of a crime or indifference causes death of a child under 11 years of age. There is much more to the laws, but that is a thumbnail sketch of the NY laws on 1st and 2nd degree murder.
In layman’s terms, I suppose 1st degree would be when the murderer shoots at the victim with the intent to kill the victim during a robbery. 2nd degree murder would be if the murderer shot the gun during the robbery so recklessly that the victim was struck and killed.
I’m not sure how much time your coffee drinker will do as 2nd degree does allow for a definite period imposed by the judge while 1st degree is death or life without parole.
I’m not a NY attorney, just went and looked up the laws with respect to these crimes. So, please do check for yourself if you would like to know the law more specifically or consult an attorney in NY.
errr…what kind of coffee did you serve…just wondering.
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### Author:  [@Emily\_Litella](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emily_Litella)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2005, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-and-then-2nd-degree-murder/335322/7 "2005-12-14T05:12:32Z")
I remember the movie, Lillo Brancato was very good in it. I wonder if he ruined his career and his life by getting mixed up with heroin. The article mentioned he was picked up for it previously.
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### Author:  [@ltfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ltfire)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2005, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-and-then-2nd-degree-murder/335322/8 "2005-12-14T21:22:56Z")
> [@SeeNoReason](#):
>
> I remember the movie, Lillo Brancato was very good in it. I wonder if he ruined his career and his life by getting mixed up with heroin. The article mentioned he was picked up for it previously.
I posted this yesterday in a Pit thread Re: the killing of the cop.
> **[I played a ganster on "The Sopranos" and now I'm a cop killer in real life](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=349228)**
>
> Read them and weep Sometimes life imitating art is a tragedy. I’m only posting this in the Pit so I can say a big “Fucko You” to the two guys. Disgusting murderers.
“The saddest thing in life is wasted talent, and the choices that you make will shape your life forever”
This was the final line in ‘A Bronx Tale’.
Lillo Brancato did the voice over as the movie ended.
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### Author:  [@Ghanima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ghanima)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2005, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-and-then-2nd-degree-murder/335322/9 "2005-12-14T21:30:32Z")
So coffee _is_ a gateway drug!
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### Author:  [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2005, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-and-then-2nd-degree-murder/335322/10 "2005-12-14T21:48:11Z")
“Capital crime” does not apply, does it? I thought NY didn’t have the death penalty…
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### Author:  [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2005, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-and-then-2nd-degree-murder/335322/11 "2005-12-14T22:33:03Z")
NY has the death penalty.
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### Author:  [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2005, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-and-then-2nd-degree-murder/335322/12 "2005-12-14T22:50:11Z")
Hit submit too soon…
NY has the death penalty (sorta); death by lethal injection. NY reinstated the death penalty in 1995. It was declared unconstitutional in June 2004. I believe there are currently 4 people on death row in NY, but the NYS Supreme Court’s ruling seems to invalidate all death penalty sentences. NY has not executed anyone since the death penalty was declared constitutional in 1976. Governor Pataki strongly supports the death penalty.