# Coffee is HOT, you moron!
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-is-hot-you-moron/281132
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [December 22, 2004, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-is-hot-you-moron/281132 "2004-12-22T07:02:18Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)
#### Post date: [December 22, 2004, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-is-hot-you-moron/281132/61 "2004-12-22T21:06:18Z")
> [@Cervaise](#):
>
> Soon to be added to the Straight Dope Message Board FAQ:
>
> “ **Warning!** Posting about the McDonald’s coffee lawsuit will prompt immediate and vociferous argument between outraged people who think they know the facts of the case and the law and much calmer people who actually do.”
Which group do calm people “who actually know the facts of the case but still disagree with the outcome” fall?
---
### Author:  [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)
#### Post date: [December 22, 2004, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-is-hot-you-moron/281132/62 "2004-12-22T21:15:09Z")
> [@Cinnamon Girl](#):
>
> And, no, I’ve not seen any actual facts that convince me that the lady wasn’t entirely responsible for her own injuries.
_emphasis mine_
and, IIRC, that’s why the judgment was reduced, to account for her portion of the fault. Ain’t it great how the system works?
---
### Author:  [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)
#### Post date: [December 22, 2004, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-is-hot-you-moron/281132/63 "2004-12-22T21:17:01Z")
:smack: nevermind, you’re saying that you think she was entirely responsible not that McD’s wasnt. My bad. Sorry. Man am I moving slow today.
---
### Author:  [@chaoticbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaoticbear)
#### Post date: [December 22, 2004, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-is-hot-you-moron/281132/64 "2004-12-22T21:44:44Z")
> [@Munch](#):
>
> How would this be useful data? McDonald’s changed their policy as a result of that lawsuit, so you’re not going to find 190 degree coffee being served.
Because someone mentioned something about the temperature of the coffee after it’s been sitting on the hot plate, and dammit, I’m curious as to how much McDonald’s would have budged on the coffee serving temp.
---
### Author:  [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)
#### Post date: [December 22, 2004, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-is-hot-you-moron/281132/65 "2004-12-22T21:50:42Z")
> [@wiggumpuppy](#):
>
> :smack: nevermind, you’re saying that you think she was entirely responsible not that McD’s wasnt. My bad. Sorry. Man am I moving slow today.
You need some coffee dude.
---
### Author:  [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)
#### Post date: [December 22, 2004, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-is-hot-you-moron/281132/66 "2004-12-22T22:32:48Z")
Oddly, I keep seeing odd metaphors which have absolutely nothing to do with the issue at hand. Like that fork thing. No one brings forks to 600 degrees and puts them out. It would be an amzingly unreasonable thing to do, possibly borderline psychotic. On the other hand, 180-degree coffee is apparently quite reasonable as defined by certain groups. If you’re going to metaphor, do it right, please.
---
### Author:  [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)
#### Post date: [December 22, 2004, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-is-hot-you-moron/281132/67 "2004-12-22T22:37:45Z")
> [@Bippy the Beardless](#):
>
> You need some coffee dude.
hell no, that shit will burn your ass. 😃
---
### Author:  [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)
#### Post date: [December 22, 2004, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-is-hot-you-moron/281132/68 "2004-12-22T22:40:49Z")
> [@wiggumpuppy](#):
>
> hell no, that shit will burn your ass. 😃
It’s supposed to go in your _other_ end.
---
### Author:  [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)
#### Post date: [December 22, 2004, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-is-hot-you-moron/281132/69 "2004-12-22T22:45:02Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#):
>
> Oddly, I keep seeing odd metaphors which have absolutely nothing to do with the issue at hand. Like that fork thing. No one brings forks to 600 degrees and puts them out. It would be an amzingly unreasonable thing to do, possibly borderline psychotic. On the other hand, 180-degree coffee is apparently quite reasonable as defined by certain groups. If you’re going to metaphor, do it right, please.
How’s this: If someone held the muzzle of a .22 up to their eye to see if the barrell was free from obstruction, and it went off because the person holding it accidentally pulled the trigger, would you think “OMG, the family should SUE the gun manufacturer!” or “Damn. Darwin strikes again.” ?
---
### Author:  [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)
#### Post date: [December 22, 2004, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-is-hot-you-moron/281132/70 "2004-12-22T22:45:14Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#):
>
> Which group do calm people “who actually know the facts of the case but still disagree with the outcome” fall?
One of two: stubborn asshole or corporate useful idiot
---
### Author:  [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)
#### Post date: [December 22, 2004, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-is-hot-you-moron/281132/71 "2004-12-22T22:46:15Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#):
>
> It’s supposed to go in your _other_ end.
that explains so much
---
### Author:  [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)
#### Post date: [December 22, 2004, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-is-hot-you-moron/281132/72 "2004-12-22T22:56:49Z")
> [@Maureen](#):
>
> How’s this: If someone held the muzzle of a .22 up to their eye to see if the barrell was free from obstruction, and it went off because the person holding it accidentally pulled the trigger, would you think “OMG, the family should SUE the gun manufacturer!” or “Damn. Darwin strikes again.” ?
No, that’s not right.
Try this. Say you come to my restaurant, Dag’s House o’Flapjacks, and order a glass of orange juice to wash down your super stack of flapjacks. As you bring the glass to your lips to take your first sip, you’re surprised to find that the orange juice tastes a little like blood. Odd, you think, and then you notice that your lips have been sliced off and are hanging over your chin by a little flap of skin. Oh, you didn’t know that Dag serves his juice in a glass with a razor sharp rim? It is glass, you know. It’s sharp, people cut themselves on glass all the time. What are you, a dumbass? My glasses are sharp because it’s GLASS.
What? Every other glass you have ever drank from had a nice round rim? Not my problem.
---
### Author:  [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)
#### Post date: [December 22, 2004, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-is-hot-you-moron/281132/73 "2004-12-22T23:04:10Z")
The horrible analogies in this thread are making the baby HeyZeus weep!
---
### Author:  [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)
#### Post date: [December 22, 2004, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-is-hot-you-moron/281132/74 "2004-12-22T23:09:22Z")
> [@Dag Otto](#):
>
> No, that’s not right.
>
> Try this. Say you come to my restaurant, Dag’s House o’Flapjacks, and order a glass of orange juice to wash down your super stack of flapjacks. As you bring the glass to your lips to take your first sip, you’re surprised to find that the orange juice tastes a little like blood. Odd, you think, and then you notice that your lips have been sliced off and are hanging over your chin by a little flap of skin. Oh, you didn’t know that Dag serves his juice in a glass with a razor sharp rim? It is glass, you know. It’s sharp, people cut themselves on glass all the time. What are you, a dumbass? My glasses are sharp because it’s GLASS.
>
> What? Every other glass you have ever drank from had a nice round rim? Not my problem.
Yes, difference being, coffee is served hot. On a consistent basis. Everywhere you go. Glasses of o.j. are not, on the average, served in a tumbler with a razor sharp rim.
Is it really all THAT difficult to use enough common sense to figure out that A) Coffee is served hot. B) therefore, I should not put it between my legs, were it could burn the fuck out of me were I to spill it. ? Yes, I’d say burns so bad that they required skin grafts were excessive. But, can you honestly say the award was not excessive, and the woman should not be held at least SEMI accountable for her own stupidity?
---
### Author:  [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)
#### Post date: [December 22, 2004, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-is-hot-you-moron/281132/75 "2004-12-22T23:09:50Z")
What bugs me about the case is not so much the right or wrong of it, but the way it is held up as some egregious example of litigousness gone mad, which it clearly is not.
I would ask this, what if she had spilled her coffe on herself in a perfectly normal situation. At the table in the restaurant and gotten third degre burns. Surely we have all spilled coffee or some other beverage at some time, it doesn’t make us all careless ninnies. But I wouldn’t expect third degree burns from spilled coffee…third degree is not a mild burn.
---
### Author:  [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)
#### Post date: [December 22, 2004, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-is-hot-you-moron/281132/76 "2004-12-22T23:14:07Z")
I agree with **CG** but for different reasons. Go back and Look at the link **Dead Badger** posted. [Linky](http://www.tap-water-burn.com/pamphlet/plate2.htm)
Time to 3rd degree burn for an adult
160F 0.9 seconds
150F 1.8 seconds
140F 5.4 seconds
130F 30.0 seconds
So even if MD had served their coffee at 135-140 degrees this lady would have still have gotten third degree burns. Her clothing would have held the hot coffee in close contact with her skin. I’m sure that she could not have gotten the clothes off her burnt skin in less that 30 seconds. So while the temp of the coffee may have made the damage worse, she would have been burnt regardless.
Now on the other side of this MD was flat stupid not to settle for medical bills before trial. The atty fees to go to trial had to have been 10 times that.
Oh and guys, I have had many a pizza place serve me a pizza in way under 2 minutes after it came out of the oven. I have burnt the shit out of my mouth from it, and no I am not rich from it yet.
---
### Author:  [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)
#### Post date: [December 22, 2004, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-is-hot-you-moron/281132/77 "2004-12-22T23:17:27Z")
> [@Rick](#):
>
> Oh and guys, I have had many a pizza place serve me a pizza in way under 2 minutes after it came out of the oven. I have burnt the shit out of my mouth from it, and no I am not rich from it yet.
That just screams missed opportunity 🆒
---
### Author:  [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)
#### Post date: [December 22, 2004, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-is-hot-you-moron/281132/78 "2004-12-22T23:18:05Z")
> [@Rick](#):
>
> I agree with **CG** but for different reasons. Go back and Look at the link **Dead Badger** posted. [Linky](http://www.tap-water-burn.com/pamphlet/plate2.htm)
> Time to 3rd degree burn for an adult
> 160F 0.9 seconds
> 150F 1.8 seconds
> 140F 5.4 seconds
> 130F 30.0 seconds
>
> So even if MD had served their coffee at 135-140 degrees this lady would have still have gotten third degree burns. .
Your line of logic is not correct. Heat dissipates rapidly as it spreads out. within 3 to 4 seconds it will fall below the level necessary to cause severe burns, even on most common clothing. Unfortunately this becomes a problem with heat in excess of 145-150 degrees, because the burn occurs before the heat decreases. Clothing will protect from more severe burns at lower temperature by spreading it out and cooling. At very high temperatures, it unfortunately spreads it out while it’s still extremely hot, and burns a larger area, rather than mitigating the damage.
QtM, MD
---
### Author:  [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)
#### Post date: [December 22, 2004, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-is-hot-you-moron/281132/79 "2004-12-22T23:20:25Z")
> [@Maureen](#):
>
> Yes, difference being, coffee is served hot. On a consistent basis. Everywhere you go. Glasses of o.j. are not, on the average, served in a tumbler with a razor sharp rim.
> Is it really all THAT difficult to use enough common sense to figure out that A) Coffee is served hot. B) therefore, I should not put it between my legs, were it could burn the fuck out of me were I to spill it. ? Yes, I’d say burns so bad that they required skin grafts were excessive. But, can you honestly say the award was not excessive, and the woman should not be held at least SEMI accountable for her own stupidity?
You fail to realized that McDonalds served the coffee at a much higher temperature than anyone else.
The award was for what McDonalds made for **2 days** of coffee sales. Not 2 days of total sales, but just what they made on coffee. So the total amount was not excessive, if you measure it by McDonald’s ability to pay it. It was enough to get their attention though, and they reduced the temperature of the coffee they serve. And if you were paying any fucking attention to this thread, you would realize that the award was reduced because she was semi accountable for happened.
---
### Author:  [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)
#### Post date: [December 22, 2004, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-is-hot-you-moron/281132/80 "2004-12-22T23:27:23Z")
_tsk_ Somebody’s pissy because their glass analogy sucked.
I’ve been paying enough attention to have read that at 190 degrees, it was the company’s requirement. I also agreed that the injury was over the top, and she shouldn’t have been burned that badly.
It’s got nothing to do with McDonald’s ability to pay. It’s the woman’s stupidity that I find ridiculous, and that she should be rewarded for tucking a hot cup of crappy McDonalds coffee between her legs and then dare to be shocked when it burned her. It’s STUPID.
That said, I also agree that McD should have flippin settled for medical costs.
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-is-hot-you-moron/281132.md?page=3)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-is-hot-you-moron/281132.md?page=5)