# Coffee shop only accepts Venmo as payment. Is it legal to NOT accept cash? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 18, 2022, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-shop-only-accepts-venmo-as-payment-is-it-legal-to-not-accept-cash/969902 "2022-08-18T17:56:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2022, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-shop-only-accepts-venmo-as-payment-is-it-legal-to-not-accept-cash/969902/141 "2022-08-25T20:52:42Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@md-2000](#): > > > > If the auto seller is trying to sell a car, and you offer him $200,000 cash, why would he not take it? Other than bagging it and taking it straight to the bank, what’s the hassle? > > Form 8300, you will need SSN, etc. Well of course, any amount over $10,000. OTOH, a car dealer would probably not like to be constantly dealing with HUGE wads of cash, but the occasional customer, they’ll probably put up with. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2022, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-shop-only-accepts-venmo-as-payment-is-it-legal-to-not-accept-cash/969902/142 "2022-08-25T21:09:57Z")
I don’t know that everyone has been dancing around your question but I’ll give you a half-answer - the grocery scanner not warning you doesn’t create a debt. The store will just reshelve the items. If you leave without paying, you will be stealing, just as if you walked out of a store without paying because they only accept cash and you only have credit cards. No debt is created does the place that put your coffee on the counter but takes it back when you have no way of paying. The restaurant where you pay after you’ve eaten - that might create a debt. But that does not necessarily mean they must legally accept cash until they have sued you for it and it doesn’t mean they can’t have you arrested for theft. I’ve never seen a larceny statute that had " was willing to pay but didn’t have a form acceptable to the seller" as a defense. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2022, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-shop-only-accepts-venmo-as-payment-is-it-legal-to-not-accept-cash/969902/143 "2022-08-25T23:43:53Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > is when does a transaction become a debt Reading through this page, to me, and I’ve been told by internet lawyers that I read legal stuff wrong, a debt is created as soon as as there is “a sum of money which is certainly and in all events payable.” So, as soon as an item is scanned at the register a debt is created, and it is a debt with expectation of being paid immediately. > **[DEBT Definition & Meaning - Black's Law Dictionary](https://thelawdictionary.org/debt/)** > > Find the legal definition of DEBT from Black's Law Dictionary, 2nd Edition. A debt is a sum of money due by contract. It is most frequently due by a certain and express agreement, which fixes the amount, independent of extrinsic... I wonder if this analogy is appropriate? Cash might be “legal tender for all debts public and private,” but that doesn’t obligate a public or private party to accept cash. Just as having freedom of speech and the press, doesn’t mean that you can compel people to listen to you or read your paper. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-shop-only-accepts-venmo-as-payment-is-it-legal-to-not-accept-cash/969902/144 "2022-08-26T11:40:07Z")
> [@echoreply](#): > > So, as soon as an item is scanned at the register a debt is created, and it is a debt with expectation of being paid immediately. Scanning doesn’t change ownership of the item. All it does is indicate to the store what items you wish to purchase. They don’t belong to you until you pay. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-shop-only-accepts-venmo-as-payment-is-it-legal-to-not-accept-cash/969902/145 "2022-08-26T11:47:36Z")
> [@echoreply](#): > > Reading through this page, to me, and I’ve been told by internet lawyers that I read legal stuff wrong, a debt is created as soon as as there is “a sum of money which is certainly and in all events payable.” > > So, as soon as an item is scanned at the register a debt is created, and it is a debt with expectation of being paid immediately. But it isn’t “certainly and in all events payable” just because the item was scanned. Even after the item is scanned, even after the order is totaled, I am not obligated to pay for it _no matter what_. I will certainly have to pay if I expect to leave with the item(s) but it is not at all uncommon for someone to realize that they have forgotten their wallet and walk away without the items they planned to purchase , or to tell the cashier to take off certain items because have don’t enough cash or credit availability to pay for everything. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-shop-only-accepts-venmo-as-payment-is-it-legal-to-not-accept-cash/969902/146 "2022-08-26T14:39:46Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Scanning doesn’t change ownership of the item > [@doreen](#): > > I am not obligated to pay for it _no matter what_ Yes, I can definitely see that. Does that mean that a debt is never created? At no point is one obligated to pay for the item. It is either paid for or not, and if removed from the store it was either purchased or stolen? Here is a different way of looking at it. Contracts can also have terms that render that allow them to be voided. So scanning the item can create a contract, and debt, to buy the item. When it turns out you’ve forgotten your wallet, the sale is voided, which also voids the contract and the debt. This is where the legal reading and the lay reading can conflict. A lay reading suggests that “certainly and in all events payable” means it is unavoidable, so if payment can be avoided, perhaps by putting the item back, then it must never have been a debt. A legal reading might mean something different, for example, as long as the contract is valid, the debt will be paid, but if the contract is voided, then there is no debt, so it is not payable. This is where internet lawyering really breaks down. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-shop-only-accepts-venmo-as-payment-is-it-legal-to-not-accept-cash/969902/147 "2022-08-26T16:15:54Z")
Good to know. Now how to add midflight when you don’t have wifi because you don’t have the payment info in your account to pay for it. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-shop-only-accepts-venmo-as-payment-is-it-legal-to-not-accept-cash/969902/148 "2022-08-26T16:28:38Z")
You can’t add midflight. In my experience, you get notified via a flight attendant announcement with plenty of time to set it up prior to takeoff. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-shop-only-accepts-venmo-as-payment-is-it-legal-to-not-accept-cash/969902/149 "2022-08-26T19:19:13Z")
The gate agents make an announcement in the boarding area every time I fly United lately, it goes something like this: “Just a reminder, if you want to purchase food or beverage on today’s flight, you must download the United app and add your credit card information to your account. Do this now because you will not be able to do this once the plane is airborne.“ It was a bit of an unpleasant surprise the first time, but I fly United a lot so now it’s just part of my normal preflight preparation. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-shop-only-accepts-venmo-as-payment-is-it-legal-to-not-accept-cash/969902/150 "2022-08-26T22:34:55Z")
Certain competitor airlines don’t have that same Catch-22 situation. Just sayin’ ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-shop-only-accepts-venmo-as-payment-is-it-legal-to-not-accept-cash/969902/151 "2022-08-26T22:38:46Z")
I’m sure. But I don’t choose my flights based on what form of payment they allow onboard. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-shop-only-accepts-venmo-as-payment-is-it-legal-to-not-accept-cash/969902/152 "2022-08-27T02:13:18Z")
I quit buying booze on flights years ago, because I would rather not make the trek to the airplane restroom. ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-shop-only-accepts-venmo-as-payment-is-it-legal-to-not-accept-cash/969902/153 "2022-08-27T02:25:17Z")
> [@echoreply](#): > > Does that mean that a debt is never created? There is no debt, as no credit is extended. Even if you use a credit card, the debt is to the CC, not the merchant. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-shop-only-accepts-venmo-as-payment-is-it-legal-to-not-accept-cash/969902/154 "2022-08-27T02:37:26Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > . Do this now because you will not be able to do this once the plane is airborne.“ Does United not have inflight wifi? I fly Alaska and it’s been standard on their planes since at least 2014. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-shop-only-accepts-venmo-as-payment-is-it-legal-to-not-accept-cash/969902/155 "2022-08-27T02:44:15Z")
They do but the gate agents say something like “inflight Wi-Fi is not fast enough to download the app in a reasonable time. So don’t count on it.” ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-shop-only-accepts-venmo-as-payment-is-it-legal-to-not-accept-cash/969902/156 "2022-08-27T02:57:45Z")
Sounds like United is behind the times - I can easily stream music on Alaska’s wifi, and i downloaded an entire Android system upgrade during my last flight. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-shop-only-accepts-venmo-as-payment-is-it-legal-to-not-accept-cash/969902/157 "2022-08-27T03:15:37Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > i downloaded an entire Android system upgrade during my last flight. You have much more intestinal fortitude than I. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-shop-only-accepts-venmo-as-payment-is-it-legal-to-not-accept-cash/969902/158 "2022-08-27T03:19:17Z")
You can do that on United too. You can play movies from an in flight system or your own Netflix. You just need to at some point add your credit card to the United ap and you only have to do it once. This is how you pay for the WiFi. This is also how you order food. I believe that Alaska and Delta are the same. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-shop-only-accepts-venmo-as-payment-is-it-legal-to-not-accept-cash/969902/159 "2022-08-27T03:34:46Z")
Alaska doesn’t make you pay through an app - you just put your card info in on a webpage after you sign into the wifi, and the flight attendants will take your card if you’re buying a drink onboard. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-shop-only-accepts-venmo-as-payment-is-it-legal-to-not-accept-cash/969902/160 "2022-08-27T22:05:25Z")
I’ve also signed up for in-flight wifi on airplanes. Probably jet blue, although i don’t remember for sure. That’s really weird that they don’t have the bandwidth to take your credit card and authorize your use in-flight. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-shop-only-accepts-venmo-as-payment-is-it-legal-to-not-accept-cash/969902.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coffee-shop-only-accepts-venmo-as-payment-is-it-legal-to-not-accept-cash/969902.md?page=9)