# Cognitive dissonance? Norway/Breivik v US/Amish **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 29, 2012, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cognitive-dissonance-norway-breivik-v-us-amish/633003 "2012-08-29T03:17:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Enkel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/df705f/32.png) [@Enkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enkel)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cognitive-dissonance-norway-breivik-v-us-amish/633003/1 "2012-08-29T03:17:39Z")
I think my brain is going to explode. I’m mentally exhausted by the continual, flat out falsehoods pumped at me from all directions thanks to the electoral process. Then there comes along this comparison: **Norway, Anders Breivik** is sentences to 21 years of private accomidations for killing 77 people in what seems to have been a marketing approach to getting his manifesto noticed (ref: wikipedia [Anders Behring Breivik - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik) ) > [@](#): > > Breivik described his far-right[11] militant ideology in a compendium of texts entitled 2083: A European Declaration of Independence, which he distributed electronically on the day of the attacks.[11][12][13][14] In it he lays out his worldview, which includes Islamophobia, support of Zionism[11] and opposition to feminism.[15][16] It also expresses support for far-right groups such as the English Defence League[17] and paramilitaries such as the Scorpions.[18] It regards Islam and “cultural Marxism” as “the enemy”, and argues for the violent annihilation of “Eurabia” and multiculturalism, and the deportation of all Muslims from Europe based on the model of the Beneš decrees.[19][20] **Breivik wrote that his main motive for the atrocities was to market his manifesto.** [21] Then we have the **US where 16 Amish** are on trial for assaulting members of their belief system and cutting their hair off. If they get the hate crime enhancement, they will be at risk of LIFE IN PRISON. – Over forced, bad hair cuts. (Yes, I understand the significance and that it was a disfigurement, but LIFE IN PRISON?) > **[HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News](https://www.huffpost.com/)** > > Read the latest headlines, news stories, and opinion from Politics, Entertainment, Life, Perspectives, and more. Honestly, I think the US is going flat out nutz and it’s making me crazy. I can’t begin to describe how agitated I feel right now. Like even if I were to scream at the top of my lungs until I passed out, it would not be enough to vent this frustration. I don’t want to ‘commit’ and crimes or injuries, but I’d love to have the power to _force sanity_ on some population somewhere. Its a good thing that I live in the middle of no where or I might be at risk of becoming one of those people who stand on a street corner and shout at strangers to quit being so stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_Mann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@Rich\_Mann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rich_Mann)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cognitive-dissonance-norway-breivik-v-us-amish/633003/2 "2012-08-29T10:29:29Z")
Speaking as a California Liberal, I still fail to understand your apparent condemnation of ‘US nutz’. The chance that the Amish barbers will get those kinds of ridiculously long sentences is next to zero, and would be thrown out on appeal, in any case. Enhanced sentences for hate crimes makes sense as a deterrent–with the understanding that in this case ‘enhanced’ means _ **somewhat** _ more than the usual (if there is one) sentence for forced beard trimming, which is presumably far short of life in prison. Far more disturbing to me is that Norway might allow the murderer of 77 innocents to walk the streets again, someday. I, personally, can’t imagine anyone _ **not** _ having a big problem with that. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cognitive-dissonance-norway-breivik-v-us-amish/633003/3 "2012-08-29T10:48:58Z")
The thing is the Norwegian legal system does not have a life sentence and 21 years is the longest you can get. They do, however, have something called _forvaring_, which means that every five years or so the prisoner is reviewed and if he is deemed not fit for release it’s back to the slammer again. This way he can be locked up for life. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cognitive-dissonance-norway-breivik-v-us-amish/633003/4 "2012-08-29T10:53:22Z")
> [@Floater](#): > > The thing is the Norwegian legal system does not have a life sentence and 21 years is the longest you can get. They do, however, have something called _forvaring_, which means that every five years or so the prisoner is reviewed and if he is deemed not fit for release it’s back to the slammer again. This way he can be locked up for life. Yup, and my understanding is that part of being considered “fit for release” are things like showing remorse, rehabilitation, and so on. I don’t think that’s going to be a risk here. Furthermore, the Amish usually resolve disputes amongst themselves and only involve outside law when things are really bad, so this is a deeply serious situation for them. Considering there are allegations that the leader was (IIRC) demanding sex with the wives of other men and so on, things sound very messed-up in that little group. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cognitive-dissonance-norway-breivik-v-us-amish/633003/5 "2012-08-29T14:58:38Z")
It kind of shows the meaningless of stated maximums. Breivik will likely get far more than the stated maximum, while the Amish will likely get far less. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cognitive-dissonance-norway-breivik-v-us-amish/633003/6 "2012-08-29T20:04:34Z")
I was greatly impressed by the way Norway handled the Breivik trial (not so much their response to the emergency itself). The didn’t let the actions of this lunatic undermine their core values and they stood by their principles. ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Render](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@Grim\_Render](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Render)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cognitive-dissonance-norway-breivik-v-us-amish/633003/7 "2012-09-09T11:42:55Z")
> [@Rich\_Mann](#): > > Far more disturbing to me is that Norway might allow the murderer of 77 innocents to walk the streets again, someday. I, personally, can’t imagine anyone _ **not** _ having a big problem with that. Most of us in Norway are pretty OK with 21-to-life as a sentence in this case. And not just because we are sick to death of hearing of the man. The guy himself was aiming for a less cuddly Norway, with presumably the death penalty reinstated. And he was willing to give his life for that. Not going to give him what he wants. For perspective, there was this guy in the US who murdered people and got quite a lot of publicity. His name was Charles Manson. Charles Manson had his first parole hearing after 7 years, and hes had them every 2-3 years since. In Norwegian terms, he is serving 7 years of\* forvaring\*. Except he gets parole hearings twice as often as he would in Norway. Breivik got a sentence three times as harsh as the one the US is giving Charles Manson.