# Cohen's Theory about Pence Pardoning Trump **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 9, 2020, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cohens-theory-about-pence-pardoning-trump/920166 "2020-09-09T14:06:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![GMANCANADA](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gmancanada/32/2837_2.png) [@GMANCANADA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GMANCANADA)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cohens-theory-about-pence-pardoning-trump/920166/1 "2020-09-09T14:06:27Z")
I was reading today that Trump’s former lawyer Cohen has put forward a theory about what will happen if Trump loses the election: Trump will resign and when Pence become President he will immediately pardon Trump for “his crimes.” > **[Michael Cohen Predicts Trump Will Resign if He Loses So Pence Can Pardon Him](https://www.thedailybeast.com/michael-cohen-predicts-trump-will-resign-if-he-loses-so-pence-can-pardon-him)** > > “And it’s a very, let’s just say it’s a very Nixon-type of event and it was probably discussed between Roger Stone and President Trump at some point,” he said. I’m not familiar with US presidential powers, but I kind of get that a President can pardon someone for crimes they are charged with, but how can Pence possibly pardon Trump in advance of Trump being charged? If there is a “blanket pardon” would that be related to specific alleged crimes committed during set time period like “while in office” and / or would it relate to specific criminal activities like financial, conflict of interest, personal game from the presidential office etc. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cohens-theory-about-pence-pardoning-trump/920166/2 "2020-09-09T14:19:59Z")
> [@GMANCANADA](#): > > I’m not familiar with US presidential powers, but I kind of get that a President can pardon someone for crimes they are charged with, but how can Pence possibly pardon Trump in advance of Trump being charged? Same way Ford pardoned Nixon for anything Nixon might have done. > Now, THEREFORE, I, GERALD R. FORD, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9,1974. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cohens-theory-about-pence-pardoning-trump/920166/3 "2020-09-09T14:21:19Z")
Here is the key phrase from Ford’s pardon of Nixon: “Now, THEREFORE, I, GERALD R. FORD, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9,1974.” He didn’t have to put start and end dates on it either. And it is not yet established whether Trump can pardon himself. I’d expect he’d do one of those just to be safe. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cohens-theory-about-pence-pardoning-trump/920166/4 "2020-09-09T14:23:33Z")
What if it turns out Pence has been quietly seething over Trump’s immorality and _doesn’t_ follow through with the pardon? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cohens-theory-about-pence-pardoning-trump/920166/5 "2020-09-09T14:28:53Z")
Then that would be _one_ good thing Pence would have accomplished on this earth. And I would get a good laugh. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cohens-theory-about-pence-pardoning-trump/920166/6 "2020-09-09T14:30:08Z")
Would a Pence pardon extend to State crimes in addition to Federal crimes? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cohens-theory-about-pence-pardoning-trump/920166/7 "2020-09-09T14:36:51Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > Would a Pence pardon extend to State crimes in addition to Federal crimes ? No. Thank god. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cohens-theory-about-pence-pardoning-trump/920166/8 "2020-09-09T14:39:20Z")
For state crimes wouldn’t he also need pardons from those state’s governors? ---
**Author:** ![brossa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brossa/32/3040_2.png) [@brossa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brossa)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cohens-theory-about-pence-pardoning-trump/920166/9 "2020-09-09T14:39:25Z")
Would a Pence pardon mean that Trump would potentially have to testify as to his federal crimes if subpoenaed, say in a case against a co-conspirator? That he could not plead the 5th? ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cohens-theory-about-pence-pardoning-trump/920166/10 "2020-09-09T14:42:38Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Same way Ford pardoned Nixon for anything Nixon might have done. However, I don’t think Ford’s pardon was tested in any way, was it? No one pushed the issue so there’s no ruling on if that pardon was valid. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cohens-theory-about-pence-pardoning-trump/920166/11 "2020-09-09T14:45:10Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > However, I don’t think Ford’s pardon was tested in any way, was it? No one pushed the issue so there’s no ruling on if that pardon was valid . I think that’s right. And, as I recall, there has been some controversy about the validity. Ford wasn’t part of Nixon’s crime syndicate, so I think people gave him the benefit of the doubt. Pence might not get the same deference. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cohens-theory-about-pence-pardoning-trump/920166/12 "2020-09-09T14:52:01Z")
I do not think there is any controversy here. If Pence is president he can pardon whoever he wants for whatever he wants. There are some opinions that a president can’t pardon himself but the constitution is very clear. “…and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.” Nothing there limiting him in any way except for the Impeachment. So if Trump had been removed from office from impeachment he could not be restored to office by a pardon. But he still could be pardoned for any crimes he committed. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cohens-theory-about-pence-pardoning-trump/920166/13 "2020-09-09T14:58:17Z")
“When Pence becomes President”… Although recent years have muddied the requirements for the job, it perhaps still requires more than managing to look serene regardless of the surreal buffoonery one might be exposed to. Is there that much indication Trump’s showmanship and charisma, such as it is, are transferable? President Ivanka is as likely. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cohens-theory-about-pence-pardoning-trump/920166/14 "2020-09-09T15:13:41Z")
OP was referring to Trump resigning after losing the election but before the inauguration. We would have President Pence for a couple of months. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cohens-theory-about-pence-pardoning-trump/920166/15 "2020-09-09T15:16:05Z")
My mistake. I forgot about this delay in American politics. But Trump is concerned about his legacy, perhaps deeply believes he cannot do wrong, and is too egotistical to resign, in my opinion. The legal strengths of such a strategy are a different question. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cohens-theory-about-pence-pardoning-trump/920166/16 "2020-09-09T15:21:13Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I do not think there is any controversy here. There was a controversy about the use of a “blanket pardon” for uncharged crimes. Typically pardons are issued to people convicted, or at least charged, with something specific. Of course, nothing in the text of the Constitution requires that. > The decision generated enormous emotions and recriminations. In the wake of that decision, numerous legal and political writings challenged the validity of Ford’s action. [https://www.jstor.org/stable/27551198](https://www.jstor.org/stable/27551198) ---
**Author:** ![gnarator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gnarator/32/8266_2.png) [@gnarator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarator)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cohens-theory-about-pence-pardoning-trump/920166/17 "2020-09-09T16:30:02Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > But Trump is concerned about his legacy, perhaps deeply believes he cannot do wrong, and is too egotistical to resign, in my opinion. I can see him sulking if he loses, and resigning “because you don’t deserve me.” If the legal opinion is he can’t pardon himself I’m certain he would do this. ---
**Author:** ![gnarator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gnarator/32/8266_2.png) [@gnarator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarator)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cohens-theory-about-pence-pardoning-trump/920166/18 "2020-09-09T16:35:53Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > What if it turns out Pence has been quietly seething over Trump’s immorality and _doesn’t_ follow through with the pardon? I think Pence wants to be President. Already there is some maneuvering among the Republicans to position themselves to run in 2024, Pompeo and Haley being notable examples. Losing the hardcore base with such a move would be political suicide. ---
**Author:** ![GMANCANADA](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gmancanada/32/2837_2.png) [@GMANCANADA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GMANCANADA)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cohens-theory-about-pence-pardoning-trump/920166/19 "2020-09-09T17:01:56Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > There was a controversy about the use of a “blanket pardon” for uncharged crimes. Typically pardons are issued to people convicted, or at least charged, with something specific. Of course, nothing in the text of the Constitution requires that. Thats exactly what I wondered - I’m stunned by this American concept of a blanket pardon. It would then hypothetically cover things like: An intern who says Trump assaulted her? He’s found to have personally taken money from Russia while in office? Holy crap, that’s incredible! ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cohens-theory-about-pence-pardoning-trump/920166/20 "2020-09-09T17:06:24Z")
> [@GMANCANADA](#): > > Holy crap, that’s incredible! Indeed. What if Nixon had murdered 20 people in the White House basement? Ford would have egg on his face, that’s for sure. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cohens-theory-about-pence-pardoning-trump/920166.md?page=2)