# Coke (and others') secret formula
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coke-and-others-secret-formula/496531
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [May 15, 2009, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coke-and-others-secret-formula/496531 "2009-05-15T15:25:07Z")
**Posts on this page:** 16
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)
#### Post date: [May 15, 2009, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coke-and-others-secret-formula/496531/1 "2009-05-15T15:25:07Z")
How could something like that be secret nowadays with supercomputers and the ability to perform billions of calculations a second? Couldn’t Pepsi or someone just take a drop, analyze what’s in it, then get the formula?
After all, they list the ingredients on the side of the can, how hard would it be to look at that in a microscope and add whatever’s not listed?
What about boiling off the water? We did that in junior high, not with Coke, but with other mixed liquids.
Also, how would Coke even know if someone stole their formula? Wouldn’t I be able to take a can of Coke, pour it into my own can, add a drop or so of sugar or something else, then call it my own? If they wanted to sue me, they’d have to reveal the exact formula in court, don’t they?
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### Author:  [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)
#### Post date: [May 15, 2009, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coke-and-others-secret-formula/496531/2 "2009-05-15T15:26:08Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#):
>
> How could something like that be secret nowadays with supercomputers and the ability to perform billions of calculations a second? Couldn’t Pepsi or someone just take a drop, analyze what’s in it, then get the formula?
>
> After all, they list the ingredients on the side of the can, how hard would it be to look at that in a microscope and add whatever’s not listed?
>
> What about boiling off the water? We did that in junior high, not with Coke, but with other mixed liquids.
>
> Also, how would Coke even know if someone stole their formula? Wouldn’t I be able to take a can of Coke, pour it into my own can, add a drop or so of sugar or something else, then call it my own? If they wanted to sue me, they’d have to reveal the exact formula in court, don’t they?
Clearly you need to take a community college course on marketing
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### Author:  [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)
#### Post date: [May 15, 2009, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coke-and-others-secret-formula/496531/3 "2009-05-15T15:41:22Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#):
>
> How could something like that be secret nowadays with supercomputers and the ability to perform billions of calculations a second? Couldn’t Pepsi or someone just take a drop, analyze what’s in it, then get the formula?
I think they could get fairly close, but it is a more difficult problem than you make it out to be. The small molecules are a no brainer, it’s the macro molecules like carmelized sugar that become difficult to nail down precisely. Coke should be an easier one to figure out since I doubt it has much in the way of macromolecules.
Mostly it is marketing.
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### Author:  [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)
#### Post date: [May 15, 2009, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coke-and-others-secret-formula/496531/4 "2009-05-15T15:55:35Z")
Wikipedia has three recipes for Coke in their article about the [Coca Cola formula](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca_Cola_formula). Would anyone like to make them and tell us how good it is?
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### Author:  [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)
#### Post date: [May 15, 2009, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coke-and-others-secret-formula/496531/5 "2009-05-15T15:55:46Z")
I don’t have a Coke handy, but I do have a Diet Coke, which helpfully lists ingredients like “natural flavors.” So it’s not quite as easy as you think.
But sure, if you want to analyze you can get a pretty close approximation. Taste experts will tell you, for example, that Pepsi is “more citrus” while Coke is “more vanilla” and Dr. Pepper is “more cherry.”
But as **Rumor\_Watkins** implied, it isn’t just about taste. You aren’t choosing between a citrus-leaning carbonated cola drink vs. a vanilla-leaning one, you’re choosing between Pepsi and Coke.
I can buy the same brand of underwear at Sears, Macy’s, Pennys and several other places, usually for the same price. So what makes me turn one direction when I walk into the mall, and not the other?
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### Author:  [@Arkcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arkcon)
#### Post date: [May 15, 2009, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coke-and-others-secret-formula/496531/6 "2009-05-15T16:23:18Z")
We discussed this fairly recently, and probably fairly often, in the past. Anyway, this discussion has a book for a reference, and you can read it at the library, and understand the whole concept better.
> **[How can a recipe be secret?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=516502)**
>
> According to this article, there are only three employees at Dr. Pepper who know the recipe. How? They must have dozens or more employees making the stuff. Someone has to purchase raw materials… If I signed 23 invoices for various flavors and...
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### Author:  [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)
#### Post date: [May 15, 2009, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coke-and-others-secret-formula/496531/7 "2009-05-15T17:17:35Z")
> [@Keeve](#):
>
> Wikipedia has three recipes for Coke in their article about the [Coca Cola formula](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca_Cola_formula). Would anyone like to make them and tell us how good it is?
Ya know, maybe I will. I make my own soda syrups from time to time, and aside from cream (vanilla) soda and fruit extracts, I’ve not tried anything else. Let’s see here…
Uh, never mind. No idea where to get some of those ingredients, and also, I’ve never cooked anything with “drachms” and wouldn’t know where to start! Maybe I’ll try OpenCola, though.
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### Author:  [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)
#### Post date: [May 15, 2009, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coke-and-others-secret-formula/496531/8 "2009-05-15T17:39:12Z")
Many years ago a book called [Big Secrets](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Secrets)revealed an educated guess at the recipe for Coke.
You could do a gas chromatography (or whatever, IANAChemist) of Coke and probably get a very precise profile of what’s in there. One thing to remember here is that knowing what’s in it doesn’t mean you could take those ingredients, mix them in a pot, and you’ve got Coke. You would have to know something about how soft drinks are made in general.
Suppose I gave you a piece of cake and told you it contained eggs, milk, sugar, water, flour, butter, cocoa, and vanilla, could you produce a cake?
Anyway, that said, there are people out there who know how to make something like Coke.
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### Author:  [@Cagey\_Drifter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cagey_Drifter)
#### Post date: [May 15, 2009, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coke-and-others-secret-formula/496531/9 "2009-05-15T19:30:23Z")
The fact is that the secret recipe itself doesn’t mean a damn thing. After all, clones who don’t know the secret recipe make stuff that tastes pretty much the same or on par with Coke. As far as the secret recipe goes, at one point it might have meant something, but now all that it’s useful for is being a marketing gimmick-- and not a particularly good one at that. Big Secrets, if I recall correctly, suggests that secret ingredient 7x is just a mix of essential oils that is present in such small quantities that it pretty much can’t be tasted.
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### Author:  [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)
#### Post date: [May 15, 2009, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coke-and-others-secret-formula/496531/10 "2009-05-15T19:33:57Z")
Say I did manage to get a hold of the recipe and had all the ingredients on hand, how easy would it be to make at home? Could I just make individual servings, or is it the type of stuff that, because of how its mixed or otherwise processed, you can only make in bulk or in some type of factory setting?
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### Author:  [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)
#### Post date: [May 15, 2009, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coke-and-others-secret-formula/496531/11 "2009-05-15T21:34:38Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#):
>
> Anyway, that said, there are people out there who know how to make something like Coke.
There’s a big difference between “something like” and “very much like”.
Just ask the people at C&C Cola, RC Cola, White Rock Cola, Pathmark Cola, ShopRite Cola…
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### Author:  [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)
#### Post date: [May 15, 2009, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coke-and-others-secret-formula/496531/12 "2009-05-15T22:19:10Z")
> [@joebuck20](#):
>
> Say I did manage to get a hold of the recipe and had all the ingredients on hand, how easy would it be to make at home? Could I just make individual servings, or is it the type of stuff that, because of how its mixed or otherwise processed, you can only make in bulk or in some type of factory setting?
At one point you could buy (generic) cola concentrate in the drugstore. (Some people used it for an upset stomach.) I just did a Google search and it looks like you can still buy it mail-order. So that’s one way to go. Or you could follow the recipe for OpenCola, found [here](http://www.wikihow.com/Make-OpenCola), among other places. So, no, there is nothing about the process that prevents one from making the stuff at home. (It’s just easier to buy it.)
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### Author:  [@Alex\_Dubinsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alex_Dubinsky)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2009, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coke-and-others-secret-formula/496531/13 "2009-05-16T03:11:17Z")
“today’s Coca-Cola uses “spent”, or treated, coca leaves, those that have been through a cocaine extraction process, to flavor the beverage.”
Ok… so where does the _cocaine_ go?
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### Author:  [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2009, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coke-and-others-secret-formula/496531/14 "2009-05-16T04:08:02Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#):
>
> How could something like that be secret nowadays with supercomputers and the ability to perform billions of calculations a second? Couldn’t Pepsi or someone just take a drop, analyze what’s in it, then get the formula?
Chemical analysis isn’t like the cartoons, where you can run a “scan” and an ingredient list pops out. The most you could do is something like a gas chromatograph, which can detect some specific molecular compounds, but this isn’t particularly helpful in reconstructing a formula.
> [@YogSosoth](#):
>
> After all, they list the ingredients on the side of the can, how hard would it be to look at that in a microscope and add whatever’s not listed?
What good do you think a microscope would do with respect to determining the makeup of some liquid mixture? 😕
> [@YogSosoth](#):
>
> Also, how would Coke even know if someone stole their formula? Wouldn’t I be able to take a can of Coke, pour it into my own can, add a drop or so of sugar or something else, then call it my own?
To what purpose? You buying their product at retail prices, repackaging it, and reselling it doesn’t sound like a way to make a lot of money. Maybe you plan to make up for your losses with volume? 😃
> [@YogSosoth](#):
>
> If they wanted to sue me, they’d have to reveal the exact formula in court, don’t they?
Why on Earth would they have to do this? :rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2009, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coke-and-others-secret-formula/496531/15 "2009-05-16T04:26:31Z")
> [@robby](#):
>
> Chemical analysis isn’t like the cartoons, where you can run a “scan” and an ingredient list pops out. The most you could do is something like a gas chromatograph, which can detect some specific molecular compounds, but this isn’t particularly helpful in reconstructing a formula…
Mass Spectrometry can come pretty close to the cartoon. First you need to separate it into the components though. Usually that means some kind of chromatography, like you said. Generally, once you have a clean mass spec, a library comparison will widdle it down pretty quickly. It’s not like the food and beverage industry is using a bunch of unknown chemicals, so I suspect 99% of what you find will be in the library.
The real trouble comes with the macromolecules. Many of them aren’t really discrete compounds. You can come up with a molecular weight range maybe for something simple like carmelized sugar. I’m not a biochemist but I suspect isolating and identifying protiens is near impossible on food that has been cooked.
What do you suppose they would find if they did PCR on a Twinkie? Is there recognizable DNA in it at all?
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### Author:  [@Alex\_Dubinsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alex_Dubinsky)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2009, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coke-and-others-secret-formula/496531/16 "2009-05-16T04:54:42Z")
> [@robby](#):
>
> To what purpose? You buying their product at retail prices, repackaging it, and reselling it doesn’t sound like a way to make a lot of money. Maybe you plan to make up for your losses with volume? 😃
Not true. You can buy the syrup for pennies (see the “why do we get free refills” thread) and bottle it into your own cans.