# Col, Cwm and other mountainering terms... **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 3, 2016, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/col-cwm-and-other-mountainering-terms/761612 "2016-08-03T05:49:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/col-cwm-and-other-mountainering-terms/761612/1 "2016-08-03T05:49:46Z")
What language is that? ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/col-cwm-and-other-mountainering-terms/761612/2 "2016-08-03T05:57:42Z")
“Cwm” is Welsh. For some unknown reason, Welsh has had a disproportionate influence in the mountain climbing community. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/col-cwm-and-other-mountainering-terms/761612/3 "2016-08-03T06:06:34Z")
_Col_ is a loanword into English from French. It comes originally from Romanic dialects that are spoken in the Alps, and turns up in the names of a lot of Alpine features. Mountaineers who encountered the term in the Alps are responsible for bringing it into English in the mid-nineteenth century. (It’s ultimately from the Latin _collum_, a neck.) _Cwm_ is a loanword from Welsh into English. The long-established English word _coomb_, which describes a different kind of valley and now is mostly used only in place-names, is related. Again, the borrowing of the Welsh word occurred in the mid-nineteenth century. On edit: I think it was geographers or geologists, rather than mountaineers, who first borrowed _cwm_, but I could be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/col-cwm-and-other-mountainering-terms/761612/4 "2016-08-03T06:24:12Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > I think it was geographers or geologists, rather than mountaineers, who first borrowed _cwm_, but I could be wrong. I thought it was crossword puzzle designers who needed the word; then geologists and mountaineers picked it up from them. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/col-cwm-and-other-mountainering-terms/761612/5 "2016-08-03T10:31:38Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > “Cwm” is Welsh. > > For some unknown reason, Welsh has had a disproportionate influence in the mountain climbing community. In case this isn’t a whoosh… Wales is the nearest mountainous area to southern and central England, so it makes perfect sense that specific, “technical” mountain-related terms would be borrowed by English from Welsh. I’d bet there are analogous situations in certain other languages – e.g., Tibetan borrowing from Mandarin for ocean-related terms, perhaps. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/col-cwm-and-other-mountainering-terms/761612/6 "2016-08-03T10:35:36Z")
(By “mountainous,” I mean Wales has rugged areas with visually obvious evidence of recent glaciation, unlike England.) ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/col-cwm-and-other-mountainering-terms/761612/7 "2016-08-03T11:39:51Z")
A rough synonym to cwm, also from Britain, is the Scottish term _corrie_, which comes from the Gaelic _coire_. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/col-cwm-and-other-mountainering-terms/761612/8 "2016-08-03T12:18:43Z")
Other terms in common use: [ul] [li]Cairn - pile of rocks used for marking a route above treeline (from the Scottish)[/li][li]Gendarme - a rock pinacle or spire, often blocking a route (from the French)[/li][li]Arête - narrow ridge of rock formed by glaciers (from the French)[/li][li]Bergschrund - a deep fissure near the top of a glacier where it pulls away from rock or stable ice (from the German)[/li][/ul] Mountaineering borrowed terms from lots of languages. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/col-cwm-and-other-mountainering-terms/761612/9 "2016-08-03T12:22:45Z")
True…unsurprisingly, from languages spoken in places near England that include these features. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/col-cwm-and-other-mountainering-terms/761612/10 "2016-08-03T14:19:48Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Other terms in common use: > > [ul] > [li]Cairn - pile of rocks used for marking a route above treeline (from the Scottish)[/li][li]Gendarme - a rock pinacle or spire, often blocking a route (from the French)[/li][li]Arête - narrow ridge of rock formed by glaciers (from the French)[/li][li]Bergschrund - a deep fissure near the top of a glacier where it pulls away from rock or stable ice (from the German)[/li][/ul] > > Mountaineering borrowed terms from lots of languages. Also serac, a column of ice, borrowed from the Swiss French sérac. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/col-cwm-and-other-mountainering-terms/761612/11 "2016-08-03T15:04:33Z")
Don’t forget “mountain,” which comes from Old French. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/col-cwm-and-other-mountainering-terms/761612/12 "2016-08-03T16:46:35Z")
Some more, a few from non-European languages [ul] [li]Talus - French, rock debris at the base of a cliff[/li][li]Scree - Norse, collection of broken rock found in various mountain locations[/li][li]Sherpa - Nepali, anyone who hauls gear for others [/li][li]Nunatak - Inuit, mountain or ridge that sticks up out of surrounding ice[/li][li]Monadnock - Abenaki/Native American, solitary mountain that rises from a plain[/li][li]Névé - French, snow/ice that has been subjected to repeated freeze/thaw cycles[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/col-cwm-and-other-mountainering-terms/761612/13 "2016-08-03T17:37:13Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I thought it was crossword puzzle designers who needed the word; then geologists and mountaineers picked it up from them. And people who needed a example when asked “OK, when\* is \*‘W’ a vowel??”😛 ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/col-cwm-and-other-mountainering-terms/761612/14 "2016-08-03T18:25:25Z")
_rappel_ and _abseil_, from French and German terms respectively for the same climbing technique of descending by rope. _carabiner_, a metal loop with a spring gate, from the German _Karabinerhaken_, “spring hook.” _couloir,_ a narrow, steep, gully, from French _crevasse_, a crack in a glacier, from French _Krummholz_, the twisted trees at timber line, from the German for “twisted wood.” ---
**Author:** ![ticker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@ticker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ticker)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/col-cwm-and-other-mountainering-terms/761612/15 "2016-08-03T21:07:23Z")
I had always understood _cwm_ to be specific to Welsh mountains. As noted above the Scottish equivalent is _corrie_ and the ‘proper’ geological name being _cirque_. Both terms appear frequently as feature names on maps in their respective countries. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/col-cwm-and-other-mountainering-terms/761612/16 "2016-08-03T21:56:55Z")
> [@ticker](#): > > I had always understood _cwm_ to be specific to Welsh mountains. As noted above the Scottish equivalent is _corrie_ and the ‘proper’ geological name being _cirque_. Both terms appear frequently as feature names on maps in their respective countries. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western\_Cwm](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Cwm) - Western Cwm on Everest is probably the most famous. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/col-cwm-and-other-mountainering-terms/761612/17 "2016-08-03T22:01:02Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > “Cwm” is Welsh. > > For some unknown reason, Welsh has had a disproportionate influence in the mountain climbing community. [Snowdonia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowdonia) in wales was the venue of choice for training for more exotic mountain ranges. It is also home the oldest serious climbing society (as with many things you can’t really claim the Victorian British invented mountain climbing, but they were the first to form a club around it and write down rules). [The inn](http://pyg.co.uk/) where Tenzing and Hilary stayed before their Everest attempt is a particular nice spot if you ever have a chance to visit.