# Cold War Fatalities? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 20, 2005, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cold-war-fatalities/300276 "2005-04-20T18:12:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![belladonna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9fc29f/32.png) [@belladonna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/belladonna)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cold-war-fatalities/300276/1 "2005-04-20T18:12:53Z")
I was reading through this site [http://www.aiipowmia.com](http://www.aiipowmia.com) and found this > [@](#): > > COLD WAR 2 September 1945 - 21 August 1991 > Participants: Classified :: POWs: Classified :: MIAs: 343 :: Deaths In Service: Classified :: Deaths In Service: 407,316 Over 400,000 cold war related deaths? Can that be right? I was just a kid, but I can remember being taught that it was simply a political “war” and I’ve never considered that it might have included such a large number of fatalites. How were all these people killed? Did we really have that many spies? Am I simply misreading the stats? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cold-war-fatalities/300276/2 "2005-04-20T18:20:26Z")
> [@belladonna](#): > > Over 400,000 cold war related deaths? Can that be right? I was just a kid, but I can remember being taught that it was simply a political “war” and I’ve never considered that it might have included such a large number of fatalites. How were all these people killed? Did we really have that many spies? Am I simply misreading the stats? They may be counting all the proxy struggles - i.e. Vietnam, Korea, Cuba, etc… But that’s admittedly just WAG on my part. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cold-war-fatalities/300276/3 "2005-04-20T19:14:53Z")
It has to. I don’t have a clue where else they could be pulling that large of figure from. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cold-war-fatalities/300276/4 "2005-04-20T20:33:18Z")
If you go through that entire stats page, you’ll see large numbers, so to speak, of extremely odd numbers. > [@](#): > > WAR OF 1812 18 June 1812 - 24 December 1814 > Participants: 286,730 :: POWs: 20,000 :: MIAs: 695 :: Deaths In Service: 2,260 > > MEXICAN WAR 24 April 1846 - 2 February 1848 > Participants: 78,718 :: POWs: 20,000 : : MIAs: 695 :: Deaths In Service: 2,260 One of those lines is duplicated. > [@](#): > > WORLD WAR I 6 April 1917 - 11 November 1918 > Participants: 4,743,826 :: POWs: 7,470 :: MIAs: 116,708 :: Deaths In Service: 116,708 One of those numbers is duplicated. > [@](#): > > INDIAN WARS US Date 1815 - December1890 > Participants: 106,000 :: POWs: Many, few survived :: MIAs: Many :: Deaths In Service: 1,000 > > Aboriginal American Date 1540 - 2004 > Participants: Unknown, in the millions :: POWs-MIAs: Unknown - Aboriginal Americans are the longest held documented POWs, serving into the 20th Century in excess of 28 years :: Deaths In Service: Millions I have no idea what the meaning of the POW statement is. And now for the OP. > [@](#): > > WORLD WAR II 7 December 1941 - 2 September 1945 > Participants: 16,353,659 :: POWs: 124,079 :: MIAs: 30,314 > > COLD WAR 2 September 1945 - 21 August 1991 > Participants: Classified :: POWs: Classified :: MIAs: 343 :: Deaths In Service: Classified :: Deaths In Service: 407,316 The deaths in service for the Cold War is obviously the missing deaths in service figure for World War II. Just a poorly done site. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cold-war-fatalities/300276/5 "2005-04-20T21:05:17Z")
What about the revolts in Soviet-occupied Eastern Europe? Were those who revolted not American in spirit? ---
**Author:** ![vl\_mungo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc8723/32.png) [@vl\_mungo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vl_mungo)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cold-war-fatalities/300276/6 "2005-04-21T00:35:50Z")
**John Birch** , who was killed by armed supporters of the Chinese Communist Party in 1945 is considered by some on the American far Right to be the first casualty of the Cold War. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cold-war-fatalities/300276/7 "2005-04-21T00:47:56Z")
IMHO…the first victims of the cold war were the citizens of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. ---
**Author:** ![Buran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a88e57/32.png) [@Buran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buran)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cold-war-fatalities/300276/8 "2005-04-21T01:22:36Z")
This is a very very vague memory but… Weren’t several Allied planes delivering supplies shot down by the Soviets at the end of the Second World War or very soon after the end of it? I think I remember reading that those were the first shots of the Cold War. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cold-war-fatalities/300276/9 "2005-04-21T01:50:20Z")
> [@](#): > > IMHO…the first victims of the cold war were the citizens of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Even if you accept the argument that the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were part of the Cold War, they certainly were not the first part of it. American, British, and French soldiers intervened in the Russian Civil War against the Soviets and certainly the associated casualities must be considered due to the Cold War. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cold-war-fatalities/300276/10 "2005-04-21T01:56:52Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > Even if you accept the argument that the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were part of the Cold War, they certainly were not the first part of it. American, British, and French soldiers intervened in the Russian Civil War against the Soviets and certainly the associated casualities must be considered due to the Cold War. Good point. But in the intervening times who used who? ---
**Author:** ![belladonna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9fc29f/32.png) [@belladonna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/belladonna)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cold-war-fatalities/300276/11 "2005-04-21T11:32:21Z")
> [@Exapno Mapcase](#): > > The deaths in service for the Cold War is obviously the missing deaths in service figure for World War II. > > Just a poorly done site. Thanks, to all. It’s raised an interesting discussion so I’m not too dissapointed the site was wishy-washy. I was actually poking around looking for information on POWs and whether there were any acknowledged living POWs in other countries, from when, etc. Can anyone recommend a good one? ---
**Author:** ![vl\_mungo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc8723/32.png) [@vl\_mungo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vl_mungo)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cold-war-fatalities/300276/12 "2005-04-23T08:50:13Z")
> [@MidwinterF1](#): > > This is a very very vague memory but… > > Weren’t several Allied planes delivering supplies shot down by the Soviets at the end of the Second World War or very soon after the end of it? > > I think I remember reading that those were the first shots of the Cold War. I have read accounts of American (and perhaps other Western) fighter pilots engaging in air-to-air combat with their Russian counterparts on several occasions towards the end of WWII… but I have never been able to find a definitive source that would confirm or deny these stories. The closest I’ve come is a couple of mentions that it probably did happen, but more as a case of mistaken identity rather than an actual agenda on either side.