# Coldfire **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 13, 2004, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coldfire/254919 "2004-07-13T16:27:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coldfire/254919/101 "2004-07-14T07:39:49Z")
> [@grienspace](#): > > I wasn’t surprized to hear that **Aldebaran** posts from Belgium. He’s been criticized on this very board for his shitty Dutch because he’s Flemish. Who criticised him for the _quality_ of his Dutch, and may I see a link, please? Also, 10 Dumbass Points for that nasty crack about A’s wife back there. Way to lead by example. **Johnny LA** , as always, you’re a man of great patience and kindness. 🙂 I’d like to offer a bit of a counter-argument with regard to the whole “different worldview”. A grew up in _Belgium_, at least for a substanbtial part. His Flemish was fluent enough to convince me of that. In fact, it was perfect. I’ll grant someone who’s lived in a tent in West-Yemen all his life some clemency with regard to “a different world view”, but not Aldebaran. He knows damn well which buttons he’s pushing. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coldfire/254919/102 "2004-07-14T10:56:30Z")
Well there’s also the annoying habit of never admitting he was wrong. Sure you could lump most of GD in there but coupled with **Aldebaran** ’s certain je ne sais quoi and it gets occasionally maddening. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coldfire/254919/103 "2004-07-14T11:04:35Z")
I dunno, **Coldfire**. Belgians do have a different world view, you know. 😃 Their food and drink is more important - and better - than that of their Northern neighbors, for example. Except for the Brussels sprouts perhaps. Oh, and I agree on your patience. I would have posted that before, but Aldebaran doesn’t like _me_ either and this might pour oil on the fire. Which I did anyway. :smack: _::getting the fire hose::_ ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coldfire/254919/104 "2004-07-14T13:05:53Z")
Well, I never thought I’d say this but I agree with **Aldebaran** on a few points. Since it’s reasonably constructive, I’ll stick to his argument about **Broomstick’s** use of French and **Coldfire’s** moderation of it. The intent of **Broomstick’s** post was only obvious to those who speak French or wanted to take the time to figure out what it meant. French was used in response to this quote of **Aldebaran’s** : > [@](#): > > Probably she only speaks English which is on its own a barrier and a severe limitation. Now when I saw a response to this posted in another language I assumed from the context that it meant that any language that a person doesn’t speak is a barrier and limitation to understanding and that her ability to speak only English wasn’t the cause. I had no idea that the point being made was that one native English speaker could also speak another language. This comment doesn’t invalidate **Aldebaran’s** argument anyway, and therefore really isn’t a good “point.” Most importantly, I missed the point of the post because it wasn’t written in English, which is why the rule about English was written in the first place (beside modding). The point is only obvious to those that could read the sentence. If **Broomstick** had quoted something like “Americans only speak English,” then his reply in French, while still irrelevant, would have at least been clear in i’s intent. I don’t think the language rule should apply only to those languages that a mod can’t understand. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coldfire/254919/105 "2004-07-14T13:10:08Z")
> [@Coldfire](#): > > Who criticised him for the _quality_ of his Dutch, and may I see a link, please? **gum**. Did you forget **gum** :D? **Coldfire** , sure you may see a [link](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=196045&page=2&pp=50&highlight=flemish+dutch) > [@](#): > > [hijack] Excuse me for butting in. Yes, newbie here, but lurker for a long time. I’ve read the straightdope rules. I think Aldebaran is a troll. his [?] Dutch is weird. Even if he [?] were to be Flemish, it’s still weird. Ask Coldfire > > Shouldn’t we ignore trolls? > > Once again: Sorry for hijacking. Won’t happen again. [/end hijack] . Does that mean **gum** gets dumbass points too? > [@](#): > > Also, 10 Dumbass Points for that nasty crack about A’s wife back there. Way to lead by example. How do you know it was directed at **Aldebaran**? I deliberately did not address anyone, and even **Aldebaran** cleverly responded by not acknowledging that it was directed at him. For your information **Aldebaran** recently attacked a female poster who had views that differed from his and called her a stupid cow here in the pit. Why did you ignore that? Now that was nasty and mean by every measure of every culture on this earth. I just wanted him to feel what that might be like to receive such a comment. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coldfire/254919/106 "2004-07-14T13:14:00Z")
> [@Jodi](#): > > Damn you, JOHNNY L.A., and your reasoned response. Is that any way to run a Pit thread? 😉 **Fuck you, you fucking fuck!** (Is that better? 😛 ) Seriously, though, I like **Coldfire**. He’s a nice guy. I don’t know **Aldebaran** , but I value other points of view. In my opinion **Aldebaran** frequently sees insults when they aren’t there. **Other Posters** seem ready to pounce on his comments at the slightest provocation. I’ve pounced on at least one of his comments myself, and I’ll admit that I may have misunderstood his response that prompted my reply. This escalation of the word war is creating a lot of bad feelings. **Aldebaran** seems to be on the road to banishment. Why? Because he misunderstands what people post, and he responds in a style that many posters find objectionable. It seems to me that neither side will admit that they might be wrong. Do we really _want_ **Aldebaran** to be banned? If he is, then he will perceive it as being banned for his beliefs; not because of his posting style. I think that **Aldebaran** needs to calm down and understand that not everything is an attack. I think **Other Posters** need to calm down and not jump down his throat every time he posts. **Aldebaran** posted about the loss of his “Beloved”. That was a very touching thread. I think that we need to consider that the person who posted that thread, and the person you’re flaming here are the same person. I think that we should all cut the guy some slack, and that he should do likewise. If he makes an inflamatory post, then maybe we should consider that it might have been prompted by a language difference and cultural differences; not that he’s trying to be a prick. I assume he is of Middle Eastern descent. The M.E. is a mess. I used to work with a black guy who claimed that _all_ white people are racists. This rankled because I was not raised in a prejudicial environment. How does one _prove_ “lack of prejudice”? I don’t know if it can be done. This coworker had a very different upbringing from mine. He was a teenager in L.A. in the '60s, a time of great racial discord. Of _course_ his perception will be different from mine. I’m guessing that **Aldebaran** was raised in a different environment from most of us, and that his perceptions are therefore quite different from Americans, Brits, Dutch, etc. The more he is attacked for his views, the more he is convinced he is right. We need more understanding in the world, not more vitriol. I’ll repeat myself: Let’s all just step back and calm down. **Aldebaran** ’s “Beloved” thread shows that we have much in common. We can still disagree with one another, but we shouldn’t start frothing at the mouth because one side or the other does not fully understand what the other side is saying. Let’s not take things too personally. **Minty Green** and I disagree vehemently on the subject of gun control; to the point where I have stopped getting into arguments with him because neither of us will budge. But we agree on other things, and except for gun control threads I think we’re quite cordial when we interact. Sometimes it’s better to simply agree to disagree and move on. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coldfire/254919/107 "2004-07-14T13:25:01Z")
hehehehe, **grienspace** I forgot all about that post. Thanks. Yeah, I need dumbass points for that. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coldfire/254919/108 "2004-07-14T14:12:20Z")
That’s a great post, **JohnnyLA** , but the thing is the OP has had five or six pit threads and does not seem to have taken the suggestions from any of them. He refuses to cut anybody any slack and has never apologized for anything he’s said. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coldfire/254919/109 "2004-07-14T14:17:23Z")
> [@gum](#): > > Belgians do have a different world view, you know. 😃 > > Their food and drink is more important - and better - than that of their Northern neighbors, for example. Except for the Brussels sprouts perhaps. \* We will tolerate no Brussels sprouts bashing around here (try the small and very flavorful ones fresh from home-grown plants, as opposed to the giant supermarket mutants or (ecch) frozen ones). And it is true that we should stop sa-lamming the misunderstood, misunderstanding **Aldebaran**. In fact, Alaikum just fine. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coldfire/254919/110 "2004-07-14T15:38:21Z")
> [@grienspace](#): > > How do you know it was directed at **Aldebaran**? Oh, come _on_. What kind of an idiot do you take me for? You posted: > [@](#): > > Your wife is a stupid cow. … right below a post by **Aldebaran** , and within three minutes at that. > [@](#): > > I deliberately did not address anyone, and even **Aldebaran** cleverly responded by not acknowledging that it was directed at him. You’re a lying idiot, and **Aldebaran** was being sarcastic when he responded to you. > [@](#): > > For your information **Aldebaran** recently attacked a female poster who had views that differed from his and called her a stupid cow here in the pit. Why did you ignore that? Ignore it? What the hell? Do you honestly think I read and memorise every single post in the forums I moderate? > [@](#): > > Now that was nasty and mean by every measure of every culture on this earth. I just wanted him to feel what that might be like to receive such a comment. Calling someone a “stupid cow” is nasty and mean, by Pit standards? The reason I singled _you_ out for it, is because you perpetuated the same behaviour some deduced from the OP (although he later explained it wasn’t meant as such, before you came in, even). Your remark added nothing whatsoever, and IMHO invalidates any criticism you might have towards **Aldebaran** ’s conduct. Note: I’m not sticking up for **Aldebaran** here, I’m just calling you an unmannered jackass. Hope that helps. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coldfire/254919/111 "2004-07-14T15:44:44Z")
hehehehe, **Jackmannii** 🙂 , I stand corrected. I’ll try the bloody things. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coldfire/254919/112 "2004-07-14T16:17:52Z")
Stupid cow. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coldfire/254919/113 "2004-07-14T16:26:27Z")
Originally posted by **KidCharlemagne** > [@](#): > > - Stupid cow. ;)\* . No. Cows aren’t stupid. They stay far away from Brussel sprouts. They only eat grass. [yeah, I know. We _smoke_ it.] 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coldfire/254919/114 "2004-07-14T16:44:06Z")
> [@Mehitabel](#): > > Thanks, **Zakalwe** , for putting it better than I could Thanks! I personally think I just put it differently, but I’ll take all the thanks I can get. I’m still waiting for **Aldeberan** ’s response though. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coldfire/254919/115 "2004-07-14T19:37:54Z")
I’ve only skimmed this thread and the subject thread, but Aldebaran, IMO you’re being an ass. I’ll take myself as one example: English is my native tongue, but I can also speak French and after a fortnight in France I’m fluent, I can also read and write Latin; I can further have a very good stab at Attic and Homeric Greek. A second example would be my brother, also English, who is fluent in Dutch, can get by in Russian, and is picking up Malay and Chinese as he is in Brunei. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coldfire/254919/116 "2004-07-14T19:46:02Z")
> [@qts](#): > > I’ve only skimmed this thread and the subject thread, but Aldebaran, IMO you’re being an ass. I’ll take myself as one example: English is my native tongue, but I can also speak French and after a fortnight in France I’m fluent, I can also read and write Latin; I can further have a very good stab at Attic and Homeric Greek. A second example would be my brother, also English, who is fluent in Dutch, can get by in Russian, and is picking up Malay and Chinese as he is in Brunei. And you’re representative of most Britons/Americans/Canadians how, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coldfire/254919/117 "2004-07-14T20:49:20Z")
ALDEBARAN may have bowed out because he sees the wisdom of JOHNNY’s words, but it seems possible he bowed out because of this, posted by MERIJEEK: “Allah sucks the greatest dick. Even better than my mom,” an insult made even more insulting – if possible, and it may not be possible – by attributing such a statement to ALDEBARAN for purposes of hyperbole. The offensiveness of this is breathtaking. It is a statement that very likely would make any Muslim shake the dust of this thread off his sandals, if not the dust of this board. With all due respect, COLDFIRE, it seems strange to chastize GREINSPACE but let something so appallingly offensive as this pass. ALDEBARAN, I am neither attacking nor defending you, because I don’t know you or your posting style. But please know that such a grossly insulting statement is not an example of the disrespect with which most Americans or Westerns would treat you or your religion. Please remember that such a thing was either posted out of ignorance or spite. If the cause was ignorance, the poster deserves your pity; if the cause was spite, he is beneath your attention. Salaam. (name removed to protect non-innocent) \*\* Damn, that proved a lot. -Joe, not much of a sucker [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coldfire/254919/118 "2004-07-14T20:59:13Z")
> [@andros](#): > > And you’re representative of most Britons/Americans/Canadians how, exactly? I dunno. Because almost every American high school and University has a second language requirement? So you can expect almost any educated American to have at least been exposed to Spanish or French, if no longer Latin or Greece. I can’t speak French worth a damn, because I don’t spend any time around French speakers, but I’ve read most of Dumas in the original French just for fun. Saying that most Americans are monoglots is a ridiculous generalization. We’re generally not very \* good \* at the second language, but that’s not necessarily so much lack of interest as lack of opportunity. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coldfire/254919/119 "2004-07-14T21:58:16Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > you can expect almost any educated American to have at least been exposed [to another language] … Saying that most Americans are monoglots is a ridiculous generalization. “Exposure” to another language makes one a polyglot? News to me. I’m impressed that you can read Dumas and all, but if you really think the majority of Americans can do the same, you’re fooling yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coldfire/254919/120 "2004-07-14T22:02:30Z")
> [@Jodi](#): > > ALDEBARAN may have bowed out because he sees the wisdom of JOHNNY’s words, but it seems possible he bowed out because of this, posted by MERIJEEK: “Allah sucks the greatest dick. Even better than my mom,” an insult made even more insulting – if possible, and it may not be possible – by attributing such a statement to ALDEBARAN for purposes of hyperbole. The offensiveness of this is breathtaking. It is a statement that very likely would make any Muslim shake the dust of this thread off his sandals, if not the dust of this board. With all due respect, COLDFIRE, it seems strange to chastize GREINSPACE but let something so appallingly offensive as this pass. You’re goddamned right I said something that breathtakingly offensive. You can also bet every penny you have that it was totally intentional. Keep in mind that this is **aldebaran** , the same fuck that sees an insult in the phrase ‘how are you doing today?’. This is the same little prick that wished for American posters to come invade HIS country (Belgium, presumably) so that he could kill them. He’s a liar with a martyr complex and anger issues. Beyond that, my whole point was to show that I can say “Jodi sent me an email proclaiming his/her love for mint chocolate chip ice cream!” and try to use it to make a point. He was trying to twist Coldfire’s (alleged) words to make it sound like he was calling him scum. As for little **a** ’s mother, that’s an old, fun issue with him. Feel free to browse his earlier posts for examples…but let me help you out. He threatened to kill posters over any sort of reference to his mother, too. I seem to recall that threatening death on anyone was a bannable offense around here. Guess that has changed. As for the rest, if something like that were to “make any Muslim shake the dust of this thread off his sandals”, too fucking bad. If you can’t take the heat, get out of the Pit. I’d say the same thing to him that I’d say to any other whining religious fanatic: Get a thicker skin and grow the fuck up. > [@Jodi](#): > > ALDEBARAN, I am neither attacking nor defending you, because I don’t know you or your posting style. But please know that such a grossly insulting statement is not an example of the disrespect with which most Americans or Westerns would treat you or your religion. Please remember that such a thing was either posted out of ignorance or spite. If the cause was ignorance, the poster deserves your pity; if the cause was spite, he is beneath your attention. This is just a gem. I’m sure all Americans and all Westerners appreciate you apologizing for them. I was not insulting Islam, and I was not insulting Muslims. I was not insulting Arabs (since you decided to whip out the “Westerners” thing). I was insulting **aldebaran**. And the little bastard (ooh! another mother insult!) deserves it. Spend some time in a few threads with him and you’ll grow to appreciate him as much as I have. -Joe [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coldfire/254919.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coldfire/254919.md?page=7)