# Colin Powell called prewar intelligence reports "Bullshit." **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 2, 2003, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069 "2003-06-02T04:35:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/1 "2003-06-02T04:35:39Z")
[Linkage](http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/030609/usnews/9intell.htm) According to _U.S. News and World Report_, the White House pressed Colin Powell to present dubious intelligence and exaggerated interpretations to the UN even though Powell had serious misgivings about the veracity of much of the material: > [@](#): > > On the evening of February 1, two dozen American officials gathered in a spacious conference room at the Central Intelligence Agency in Langley, Va. The time had come to make the public case for war against Iraq. For six hours that Saturday, the men and women of the Bush administration argued about what Secretary of State Colin Powell should–and should not–say at the United Nations Security Council four days later. Not all the secret intelligence about Saddam Hussein’s misdeeds, they found, stood up to close scrutiny. At one point during the rehearsal, Powell tossed several pages in the air. “I’m not reading this,” he declared. “This is bulls- - -.” Powell argued with White House officials over the material he was supposed to present to the UN, much of which Powell refused present. > [@](#): > > Interviews with more than a dozen officials reveal that many pieces of intelligence– **including information the administration had already cited publicly** –did not stand up to scrutiny and had to be dropped from the text of Powell’s U.N. speech. (Bolding mine) Dick Cheney was the one apparently pushing for the most aggressive case against Iraq. > [@](#): > > The first draft of Powell’s speech was written by Cheney’s staff and the National Security Council. Days before the team first gathered at the CIA, a group of officials assembled in the White House Situation Room to hear Cheney’s chief of staff, Lewis “Scooter” Libby, lay out an indictment of the Iraqi regime–“a Chinese menu” of charges, one participant recalls, that Powell might use in his U.N. speech. Not everyone in the administration was impressed, however. “It was over the top and ran the gamut from al Qaeda to human rights to weapons of mass destruction,” says a senior official. “They were unsubstantiated assertions, in my view.” Powell was so mistrustful of Cheney’s “information” that he organized his own team of intelligence experts to vette the charges against Iraq. Within one day CIA analysts working for Powell had found that the script from Cheney’s office contained much information that could not be substantiated. > [@](#): > > Veteran intelligence officers were dismayed. “The policy decisions weren’t matching the reports we were reading every day,” says an intelligence official. In September 2002, U.S. News has learned, the Defense Intelligence Agency issued a classified assessment of Iraq’s chemical weapons. It concluded: “There is no reliable information on whether Iraq is producing and stockpiling chemical weapons . . . .” At about the same time, Rumsfeld told Congress that Saddam’s “regime has amassed large, clandestine stockpiles of chemical weapons, including VX, sarin, cyclosarin and mustard gas.” Rumsfeld’s critics say that the secretary tended to assert things as fact even when intelligence was murky. “What we have here is advocacy, not intelligence work,” says Patrick Lang, a former top DIA and CIA analyst on Iraq. “I don’t think [administration officials] were lying; I just think they did a poor job. It’s not the intelligence community. It’s these guys in the Office of the Secretary of Defense who were playing the intelligence community.” The White House was interested only in making a political case and didn’t give a shit what the truth was. Colin Powell comes off in this piece as being a man of integrity and ethics. White House officials come off as lying, conniving dogs. One of the prevailing assumptions about the lack of WMDs has been that the WH just got bad intelligence. Well, it sounds to me like they got good intelligence, alright, it just wasn’t the intelligence they wanted, so they spun it to suit their own purposes. The more I learn about this administration the more I become convinced that I haven’t been cynical _enough_ about these bastards. Christ, I hope the public wises up to these assholes before November '04. I’m not holding my breath, though. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/2 "2003-06-02T04:46:32Z")
As much as I respect Colin Powell, if he had truly been a man of integrity and ethics, he would’ve resigned last fall. And I’m sure he had/has his reasons for staying on board, but remaining one of the most visible cheerleaders for this administration’s policies (over the past few months) has knocked him down a few pegs in my book. Happy ---
**Author:** ![Keith\_Berry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/22d042/32.png) [@Keith\_Berry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keith_Berry)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/3 "2003-06-02T04:51:32Z")
If one more asshole says “We need Bush to safeguard our national security”, I swear I’m going to go postal on them. Bush is the biggest threat to national security we have. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/4 "2003-06-02T04:56:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Happy Lendervedder \* > \*\*As much as I respect Colin Powell, if he had truly been a man of integrity and ethics, he would’ve resigned last fall. > > And I’m sure he had/has his reasons for staying on board, but remaining one of the most visible cheerleaders for this administration’s policies (over the past few months) has knocked him down a few pegs in my book. > > Happy \*\* I agree with you. I was also disappointed that Powell went along with this war, but at least he showed _some_ professional conscience here, unlike some others like Rummy, who knowingly spout bullshit without any qualms. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/5 "2003-06-02T05:02:25Z")
I honestly can’t wait until Powell no longer works for Bush, simply because I can’t wait to read his memoirs. I hope it’s peppered with profanity. 🙂 Happy ---
**Author:** ![MeanJoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanjoe/32/5693_2.png) [@MeanJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanJoe)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/6 "2003-06-02T05:03:53Z")
Very interesting story. I am not going to try and dissect this bit-for-bit as it is no GD but The Pit. Re: Powell - I have always had the utmost respect for this man. To me, it does not seem out of character for him to object as this story proposes. I do wonder, as **Happy** points out, why he did not refuse to deliver this info and resign. I hope he chose otherwise as he is, and this article seems to confirm, the only one in the administration willing to call bullshit. Resigning just removes any last voice of reason to what is becoming clearly seen as a one-horse agenda. Secondly, his resignation would undermine the State Department’s ability to try win the political battle with the Pentagon brass. I can see him trying to win as many consessions as possible yet delivering the speech with a longer-view in mind. Anyway, if this article turns out to be true, I think I speak for many Republicans who say that Bush, et.al, have a whole lot to answer for to the American people and the members of their own party. I really do wish there would be an alternative to Bush in 04. Mean “Seriously disallusioned 'publican” Joe - and - Mean “Can’t believe he didn’t automatically disagree with Diogenes” Joe 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/7 "2003-06-02T05:04:07Z")
If my goverment had done something half as machiavelic, hideous and outright immoral I´d be, at least, carring a banner in front of the Legislative Palace demanding immediate resignment and judicial prosecution. If this passes without any form of consequences for the people involved I´ll lost quite some thrust and sympathy for the US. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/8 "2003-06-02T05:06:35Z")
> [@](#): > > The more I learn about this administration the more I become convinced that I haven’t been cynical enough about these bastards. I eagerly await the happy blogger who finally obtains and publishes the [“Waldorf transcripts”](http://www.guardian.co.uk/guardianpolitics/story/0,3605,968569,00.html), detailing the pre-UN meeting of Powell and Straw. That may provide enough salad for _everyone_ to sit up and take notice 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/9 "2003-06-02T05:18:07Z")
> [@](#): > > Anyway, if this article turns out to be true, I think I speak for many Republicans who say that Bush, et.al, have a whole lot to answer for to the American people and the members of their own party. I really do wish there would be an alternative to Bush in 04. Powell, himself, would make a pretty attractive choice. I think even I would probably vote for him over any of the current Democratic candidates. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/10 "2003-06-02T05:20:50Z")
I know very little about the military intelligence the US collects, **Diogenes** (I address you because you’re the OP, no other reason:)), but is it possible that Powell stayed on because he believed there were other evils he needed to address in his position that required action soon enough so as to render the search for a new man to fill his old shoes prohibitively difficult? IOW not enough time, etc. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/11 "2003-06-02T05:21:48Z")
Powell’s not gonna run. Ever. He doesn’t want the job. Period. This is one of the reasons he should be President. But he’s not going to be. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/12 "2003-06-02T05:28:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by iampunha \* > \*\*I know very little about the military intelligence the US collects, **Diogenes** (I address you because you’re the OP, no other reason:)), but is it possible that Powell stayed on because he believed there were other evils he needed to address in his position that required action soon enough so as to render the search for a new man to fill his old shoes prohibitively difficult? IOW not enough time, etc. \*\* I think you’re right. I think he probably weighed his options and decided that he could still do more good within the administration than without. Maybe he also decided that it would be better to stay and try be a voice of restarint and reason rather than leave and let Bush appoint some sycophantic lackey. **E-Sabbath** , I know that Powell has been very consistent in saying he doesn’t want to be POTUS (hell, if he really wanted the job he probably could have gotten it in 2000) it’s just wishful thinking on my part. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/13 "2003-06-02T05:50:40Z")
Just count me as another “me too” with **Happy’s** post. If Powell was truly a man of integrity and character, he would have resigned – loudly and publically – instead of going before the United Nations and lying to the world under orders from Dick and George. Having character means doing the right thing, regardless of how difficult it is. Lying to start a war is _never_ the right thing. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/14 "2003-06-02T05:59:19Z")
**rjung** , since you’re up and awake ( **Happy** could have just gone off to bed for all I know), care to take a gander at this?: Do you believe it is enough of a plausibility that Powell’s replacement would have been more of a yes-man than Powell was? Do you further believe it is possible that we could be worse off (storming into other countries as we speak, etc)? I’m not trying to set myself up as an utter apologist for the man so much as I think it’s worth considering the other options we had for that position and whether or not Powell has stuck it out this long because he reasonably believes nobody could do a better job. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/15 "2003-06-02T06:25:02Z")
Dunno about **rjung** , but it sounds plausible to me, **iampunha**. He may well have thought that a strong State Department was the only thing holding Rumsfeld and the Pentagon back. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/16 "2003-06-02T06:30:42Z")
He did manage to get some of the wilder accusations removed from the script. Another SoS may have simply read the original, unadulterated, Cheney propaganda, thus hurting US credibility even more. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/17 "2003-06-02T06:42:20Z")
It’s a very tricky road, and one that someone with deeper knowledge of the State Department and the possible replacements for Powell (and, more to the point, his knowledge of them) would be able to nagivate most informatively. I just think we should reserve our most base disgust for when more of this situation is brought to light. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/18 "2003-06-02T06:45:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > \*\*JIf Powell was truly a man of integrity and character, he would have resigned – loudly and publically – instead of going before the United Nations and lying to the world under orders from Dick and George. > > Having character means doing the right thing, regardless of how difficult it is. Lying to start a war is _never_ the right thing. \*\* It’s just not done. The man has been a soldier for most of his life, and GW is the Commander in Chief. Probably not the first time he’d disagreed with his orders. _Nobody_ in that high level position would publicly blast his boss while resigning. He may be disgusted, but he’d quietly resign and he would keep his mouth shut. If he blasted the President, his career is over. rHe may have some political aspirations left ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/19 "2003-06-02T06:52:21Z")
**spooje** reminds me of the number of Attnys General resigned rather than take one particular order from Nixon, IIRC. Same sort of situation? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/20 "2003-06-02T07:07:34Z")
At the time, I don’t think he could have resigned without making Bush look bad and weakening his position. I would have liked to see him do it, but I think I understand how he couldn’t. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069.md?page=2)