# Colin Powell called prewar intelligence reports "Bullshit." **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 2, 2003, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069 "2003-06-02T04:35:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/21 "2003-06-02T07:20:50Z")
Colin Powell is an honorable man, and he’s in a position to use his authority to make the world a better place. He’s not going to give that spot up to someone like Paul Wolfowitz, because I suspect he really does have his nation’s best interests at heart. Shades of [Bill Rogers](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1099602.stm), eh? But I bet if you mentioned “George C. Marshall” to that poor guy he would punch you in the face. Furthermore, he ain’t the only [member of the family](http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FT.com/StoryFT/FullStory&c=StoryFT&cid=1054416313497) about to face the music. We’re looking at the makings of a real family dynasty. The General has to be cognizant of that. I suspect that someday, if things do manage to turn out all right, one former Prime Minister and one former Secretary of State will sit down to a quiet drink, and one of them is going to say, “I thought the goddamned Texans were supposed to ride the bulls, not the other way around.” ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/22 "2003-06-02T10:41:02Z")
What I don’t get is that the former POTUS was indicted for lying about his sexual life. Why isn’t this POTUS indicted for lying and causing loss of **American** \* lives? \*I _do_ care about the loss of Iraqi lives, however, I thin k an indictment would stand on firmer ground if we’re talking about Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/23 "2003-06-02T10:46:06Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by The Gaspode \* > What I don’t get is that the former POTUS was indicted for lying about his sexual life. Why isn’t this POTUS indicted for lying and causing loss of **American** _ lives? I think the distinction is that this one hasn’t done it while under oath. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/24 "2003-06-02T11:35:45Z")
Yes, lying about one’s sex life under oath is _sooooooo_ much more evil than prosecuting an unjustified war. I mean, really, who wouldn’t choose killing a few thousand innocents over lying to the judge? ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/25 "2003-06-02T11:37:12Z")
An interesting article. _If_ this is what truly happened, then you can put me in the group of people who feel that Powell should have resgined then and there. To have the right gut feeling and eventually not act upon it anyway, is the same as being a liar in the first place, in practice. And The Gaspode makes a good point. If the “under oath” caveat is what gets GWB off the hook, then I guess it’s up to the American voter to judge next year. But boy, I would love to see a POTUS again who would lie about blow jobs rather than WMD’s. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/26 "2003-06-02T11:49:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by iampunha \* > \*\*I know very little about the military intelligence the US collects, **Diogenes** (I address you because you’re the OP, no other reason:)), but is it possible that Powell stayed on because he believed there were other evils he needed to address in his position that required action soon enough so as to render the search for a new man to fill his old shoes prohibitively difficult? IOW not enough time, etc. \*\* I agree with that, Sir Punha, but this seems to be a pretty big thing to let go, principles be dammned, doesn’t it? If the search for a new man was going to be prohibitively difficult, then all the more reason why he’d have the leverage to threaten to resign, right? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/27 "2003-06-02T11:55:47Z")
I lost any faith i had in Powell some time ago, and if the stuff quoted in the OP is true then i’m even more certain that he has failed in his job. I’m afraid i don’t buy the argument that he stayed so that they wouldn’t appoint a bigger hawk in his place–there are some things that need to be done on principle, and if he truly opposed what the Administration was doing he should have resigned. Given that Powell is about the only moderate Republican in the Administration, his resignation would be a very significant gesture. I believe that there are many Americans who voted Republican because they genuinely believed in Bush’s promise of “compassionate conservatism,” and plenty of the same people probably supported the war against Iraq because they genuinely believed that the Administration was telling the truth. If Powell resigned and outlined his reasons, many of these people might really begin to question whether or not they made the right political decision. But while he’s still there, he serves as a sort of moderate legitimating force for Bush et al., in the eyes of many Americans. He’s always demonstrated the courage of his convictions in the past–he should do so now. As **Sofa King** suggests, he may be sticking around to help out his son. However, having followed the FCC quite closely over the past year or so, i’m pretty concerned about Michael Powell. He seems to be much more of an ideologue than his father, and his current attempt to push radical deregulation through the FCC, in the face of strong opposition from some of the other commissioners, demonstrates a total abrogation of that agency’s regulatory role. Powell Jr. is little more than a former media company lawyer doing his best to serve his former clients and bosses at the expense of the public good. Just my 2c. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/28 "2003-06-02T12:07:54Z")
Far be it from me to besmirch a political figure (well, ok, maybe not all _that_ far) but… Colin Powell simply seethes with gravitas and charisma, but these are characteristics of personality, and rather elusive ones at that. Mr. Powell is very impressive as a figure, but really, what has he done that would impress us so much if he had less “personality”? Whatever illusions we may nurture as to his “integrity” must surely be dispelled by now. We are given to understand that he said “bullshit!” off camera. But when the time came to stand and deliver, he toed the line. He may not foster any ambitions to replace his C in C, but that only means that he whores for a different coin. He is no better than any of the other girls on the street, his running sores are simply less obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/29 "2003-06-02T12:37:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gorsnak \* > Yes, lying about one’s sex life under oath is _sooooooo_ much more evil than prosecuting an unjustified war. I mean, really, who wouldn’t choose killing a few thousand innocents over lying to the judge? Oh, I wasn’t saying it was better, mind you. I’m just saying that on the whole, politicians lie daily to the American public, and that doing it under oath is the only time you can actually bust them on it with any real consequences - other than the occasions where the citizens decide to not re-elect them as a result. ---
**Author:** ![Gorgon\_Heap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f475e1/32.png) [@Gorgon\_Heap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorgon_Heap)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/30 "2003-06-02T12:39:47Z")
**elucidator** , maybe, but I think what has not been said in this thread yet is that the administration has done all it can to keep Powell on a short leash and away from the cameras for a very long time. Rumsfeld and Chaney are running this administration - of that there is little doubt. They have had many arguments with Powell about many things, and have seen to it that he does not have the power to get in their way. If he did resign, then what? Have any of you noticed how many top folks are fleeing the ship? Ari Fleisher, though not well-liked by all, always supported Bush but is now taking off. Gen. Shinseki, the Army Chief of Staff, is leaving. Rummy wanted Gen. Franks to take the post next, but Franks decided to retire instead. People are either being forced out or want out because they want nothing more to do with the administration. This adds a bit more the questions about why Powell stays in, I think. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/31 "2003-06-02T12:40:45Z")
I wonder if that’ll really happen (citizens deciding not to reelect him). I really do. Voters have short memories in general anyway, and his popularity is still fairly high, even with the downturn in economy. Plus, the Democrats don’t have anyone who seems strong enough to unseat him. Or is that just pessimism? ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/32 "2003-06-02T12:42:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gorgon Heap \* > \*\* > Rumsfeld and Chaney are running this administration - of that there is little doubt. They have had many arguments with Powell about many things, and have seen to it that he does not have the power to get in their way. > > \*\* I apologize for the double post. **Gorgon** , don’t forget Karl Rove. My opinion is that he’s the one running things, not necessarily Rumsfeld and Cheney. Rove has been widely credited with being **the** guy managing the administration’s policy. Not that the other two don’t have heavy influence, though. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/33 "2003-06-02T12:43:50Z")
So, will GWB be re-elected? Or is that a Q for GD? ---
**Author:** ![Gorgon\_Heap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f475e1/32.png) [@Gorgon\_Heap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorgon_Heap)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/34 "2003-06-02T13:01:48Z")
**dantheman** , unfortunately, I don’t know what the guy has been up to since he won Bush the presidency. **Gaspode** , while I certainly can’t answer the question, I have no doubt that the mudslinging is going to get very, very bad come election time. I think I’ll end up unplugging my TV. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/35 "2003-06-02T13:10:21Z")
My favorite part is the new claims that what they _really_ meant wasn’t weapons but the possible means for making them. The Washington Post then basically debunked that claim with direct cites to where Bush and his minions did say weapons-repeatedly. It was worth a laugh. Cites: [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A60140-2003May30.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A60140-2003May30.html) Here is the new lie: > [@](#): > > “You remember when [Secretary of State] Colin Powell stood up in front of the world, and he said Iraq has got laboratories, mobile labs to build biological weapons,” Bush said in an interview before leaving today on a seven-day trip to Europe and the Middle East. "They’re illegal. They’re against the United Nations resolutions, and we’ve so far discovered two. > > “And we’ll find more weapons as time goes on,” Bush said. “But for those who say we haven’t found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they’re wrong. We found them.” Here is why: > [@](#): > > Bush administration officials have recently been stressing a hunt for “weapons programs” instead of weapons themselves. Among the officials who have hedged their claims in recent public statements is Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, who said this week that deposed president Saddam Hussein may have destroyed all the weapons before the war. > > U.S. authorities have to date made no claim of a confirmed finding of an actual nuclear, biological or chemical weapon. In the interview, Bush said weapons had been found, but in elaborating, he mentioned only the trailers, which the CIA has concluded were likely used for production of biological weapons. Oops Curious George forgot what he said before: [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A63017-2003May31.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A63017-2003May31.html) > [@](#): > > On Aug. 26, 2002, Vice President Cheney told the VFW National Convention: “Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction.” On Sept. 12, 2002, Bush told the U.N. General Assembly: “United Nations inspections also revealed that Iraq likely maintains stockpiles of VX, mustard and other chemical agents, and that the regime is rebuilding and expanding facilities capable of producing chemical weapons.” > > In Bush’s State of the Union address on Jan. 28, he cited evidence that Hussein had enough materials to produce more than 38,000 liters of botulinum toxin and as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agents. “He has given no evidence that he has destroyed them,” Bush said. > > Secretary of State Colin L. Powell, in the same speech to the U.N. on Feb. 5 in which he discussed evidence of the mobile weapons labs Bush referred to last week, argued: “We know that Saddam Hussein is determined to keep his weapons of mass destruction, he’s determined to make more.” A month later, on March 7, Powell told the United Nations that Hussein has “clearly not” made a decision to “disarm Iraq of its weapons of mass destruction.” > > Finally, in delivering his March 17 ultimatum to Hussein to go into exile, Bush told the nation: “Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised.” > > Bush’s political opponents ridiculed the suggestion Bush made last week that the discovery of two trailers validated the earlier accusations. “Just because they found two mobile labs, to say that’s evidence of weapons of mass destruction is absurd,” said Kristian Denny, spokeswoman for Sen. Bob Graham (D-Fla.), a presidential candidate. Where are all those tons of weapons you lying sack of shit? Did Americans die because your inability to fix the economy caused you to wag the dog? * * * Lets see-- the massive tax favoring the rich will stimulate the economy: Failed. War on Terror to get Osama: Failed. Rebuild Afganistan and restore democracy: Failed so far. Bring us out of the Recession: Failed. Fiscal Discipline: Failed. We have massive budget deficits, State Governments’ budgets are in crisis mode, unemployment is still not improving, our world standing is at an all-time low, the dollar is dropping like a rock, there is no sign the economy is improving, and now Curious George is facing re-election. Look out Iran! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/36 "2003-06-02T13:11:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Gaspode \* > \*\*So, will GWB be re-elected? Or is that a Q for GD? \*\* That depends on some other factors. Traditionally the economy has been the single most significant factor in presidential elections ("it’s the economy, stupid’) and if Bush doesn’t turn around the current economic slump that be a real problem for him. The loss of credibility caused by his failure to turn up WMDs in Iraq also hurts him. On the other hand, the dems don’t really have a strong front runner of their own. Gore won’'t run again and the rest are a fairly uninspiring group. The one exception may be Howard Dean, the governor of Vermont, who still has some air of mystery and charisma to him. The rest are from congress, and Americans typically don’t like to elect presidents who emerge from congress (JFK is a notable exception). So I would say it’s a toss up. Bush has done enough to hurt himself, but there’s no obvious dem to oppose him. I suspect it will be another close election that could go either way. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/37 "2003-06-02T13:16:01Z")
Dean seems like a good candidate, **Diogenes** , especially because he’s more of an outsider than most of the other candidates. But right now he’s in a pissing contest with John Kerry, so who knows. Most of them seem to be all talk and blather - it’s one thing to be critical of how things are going, but if you want to run things, you should present your own plan. I think Gephardt is the only one to do this, with his health plan. **Gorgon** , here are two cites from the Washington Post that reflect Rove’s growing influence: [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A51129-2003May28.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A51129-2003May28.html) [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A62764-2003May31.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A62764-2003May31.html) Anyway, I agree the other two are very influential as well. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/38 "2003-06-02T13:31:06Z")
I heard about this article a couple of days ago but could not find a link online. It pretty much confirms what we already knew about the evidence being made up > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Happy Lendervedder \* > As much as I respect Colin Powell, if he had truly been a man of integrity and ethics, he would’ve resigned last fall. > > And I’m sure he had/has his reasons for staying on board, but remaining one of the most visible cheerleaders for this administration’s policies (over the past few months) has knocked him down a few pegs in my book. It’s a tough choice and not so clear cut. had he done that he would have served truth and justice and done some damage to America but he would have achieved little, if anything. He might have been replaced by someone worse. By staying on board he might have helped moderate the policies of the rest, out of control, government officials. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/39 "2003-06-02T13:35:31Z")
I can’t say I know enough about U.S. politics to offer an informed apinion, but isn’t it possible that there will be another republican trying to steal the primaries from GWB? Are we certain the GOP will support Bush? I mean, there are moderate republicans out there. Are they happy with Bush? ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/40 "2003-06-02T13:48:30Z")
When a sitting president runs for reelection, chances are extremely good that he will get the support of his party over another candidate of the same party. So it’s not terribly likely that the Republican Party would support anyone else - unless they felt that his popularity had slipped so much that someone else in the party would stand a better chance of winning the next election. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069.md?page=3)