# Colin Powell called prewar intelligence reports "Bullshit." **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 2, 2003, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069 "2003-06-02T04:35:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![And\_that\_s\_the\_bottom\_line](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df788c/32.png) [@And\_that\_s\_the\_bottom\_line](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/And_that_s_the_bottom_line)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/121 "2003-06-05T07:27:49Z")
I find all of this very interesting. Especially considering that Powell just a few days ago defended U.S. intelligence reports that were used to justify the war against Iraq at the Feb. 5th UN briefing before the Security Council. Powell seems to think the intelligence info was solid enough. He was convinced by U.S. intelligence that Irag had WMD and that they were continuing to develop illegal WMD programs. Powell was quoted as saying: > [@](#): > > “There were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. It wasn’t a figment of anyone’s imagination. Iraq used these weapons against Iran in the late '80s,” Powell said. “There is no question, there is no debate here. There was no doubt in my mind as I went through the intelligence and as I prepared myself for the (Feb. 5) briefing … that the evidence was overwhelming and that they had continued to develop these programs.” I doubt Powell would intentionally use and reference false or bad intelligence. Not only would it be an unethical move it could also devastate him politically. Powell was also quoted as saying: > [@](#): > > “I went out to the C.I.A., and I spent four days and four nights going over everything that they had. I knew that it was the credibility of the United States that was going to be on the line on the fifth of February. The credibility of the president of the United States and my credibility.” [Cite](http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=2865140) [Cite](http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/31/international/worldspecial/31POWE.html?ex=1054958400&en=6d0f444e82a4533b&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE) So is what was stated in the article referenced in the OP true? I guess only time will tell. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/122 "2003-06-05T12:38:35Z")
More evidence piles up: [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A15019-2003Jun4.html?nav=hptop\_tb](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A15019-2003Jun4.html?nav=hptop_tb) > [@](#): > > Vice President Cheney and his most senior aide made multiple trips to the CIA over the past year to question analysts studying Iraq’s weapons programs and alleged links to al Qaeda, creating an environment in which some analysts felt they were being pressured to make their assessments fit with the Bush administration’s policy objectives, according to senior intelligence officials. > > With Cheney taking the lead in the administration last August in advocating military action against Iraq by claiming it had weapons of mass destruction, the visits by the vice president and his chief of staff, I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby, “sent signals, intended or otherwise, that a certain output was desired from here,” one senior agency official said yesterday. > > . . . > > While visits to CIA headquarters by a vice president are not unprecedented, they are unusual, according to intelligence officials. The exact number of trips by Cheney to the CIA could not be learned, but one agency official described them as “multiple.” More fuel for the fire: > [@](#): > > Government sources said CIA analysts were not the only ones who felt pressure from their superiors to support public statements by Bush, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, Secretary of State Colin L. Powell and others about the threat posed by Hussein. > > Former and current intelligence officials said they felt a continual drumbeat, not only from Cheney and Libby, but also from Deputy Defense Secretary Paul D. Wolfowitz, Feith, and less so from CIA Director George J. Tenet, to find information or write reports in a way that would help the administration make the case that going into Iraq was urgent. > > “They were the browbeaters,” said a former defense intelligence official who attended some of the meetings in which Wolfowitz and others pressed for a different approach to the assessments they were receiving. “In interagency meetings,” he said, “Wolfowitz treated the analysts’ work with contempt.” I think Curious George is going to have a difficult time spinning his way out of this one. Once the Dems think it is safe, they will come after Bush on this. Any formal investigations will probably be a step behind the revelations coming out of England though. **elucidator** > [@](#): > > and reported today by German newspapers Der Tagesspiegel and Die Welt. Seeing the Guardian was quoting two German newspapers did they also get it wrong? Is there a more authoritative Cite to that then a cartoon? Maybe “Tom Tomorrow” is right, but I would like to see something of a non-cartoon variety before discreting an actual newspaper (or three as the case may be). Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/123 "2003-06-05T13:51:19Z")
Where _are_ the Bush-Huggers? Where are all the guys on this boards who used words like ‘peaceniks’, ‘pinko’ and ‘coward’ a few months ago? Are they waiting for the spin supplied by the administration, so they can get the arguments they need to carry on a debate? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/124 "2003-06-05T13:51:36Z")
Here’s the [transcript](http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/2003/tr20030531-depsecdef0246.html) of the Q&A session in which Wolfowitz made his remarks. The Guardian totally butchered his meaning: > [@](#): > > Look, the primarily difference – to put it a little too simply – between North Korea and Iraq is that we had virtually no economic options with Iraq because the country floats on a sea of oil. In the case of North Korea, the country is teetering on the edge of economic collapse and that I believe is a major point of leverage… What Wolfie was saying was that, due to Iraq’s oil wealth, economic leverage was no use against them, but that he did expect it to be useful in working with NK. That’s still a pile of crap, of course, but it still bears no resemblance to saying, “we went to war for oil.” ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/125 "2003-06-05T13:56:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Gaspode \* > \*\*Where _are_ the Bush-Huggers? Where are all the guys on this boards who used words like ‘peaceniks’, ‘pinko’ and ‘coward’ a few months ago? Are they waiting for the spin supplied by the administration, so they can get the arguments they need to carry on a debate? \*\* I asked a similar question about a page and a half ago, but the silence is still deafening, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/126 "2003-06-05T14:02:05Z")
They are merely giving the new inspectors the necessary time to complete their search and analysis. This process is expected to be complete on or about November 3, 2004. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/127 "2003-06-05T14:43:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > \*\*They are merely giving the new inspectors the necessary time to complete their search and analysis. This process is expected to be complete on or about November 3, 2004. \*\* 😃 The sad is that, at the level of national debate, i think **minty** ’s forecast will prove to be depressingly accurate. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/128 "2003-06-05T14:53:10Z")
Lying about the WMD’s won’t, I think, make much difference in public views of Bush by itself. The war is still rationalized as having brought “freedom” to the Iraqis and somehow gotten back at those responsible for 9/11. The steady drip-drip of news about more American soldiers getting killed every week by those they’ve “liberated”, the need to send the 100,000+ soldiers there for years (as Shinseki and White got fired for pointing out), and continued Al Qaeda and other attacks will help expose the other rationalizations as lies, as well. The tipping point regarding Bush’s lying hasn’t been reached yet, but I think it’s close in the US, and may already have been reached in the UK and Oz. When it does, the search for someone to blame will be in full force, and Bush won’t be able to evade it. Yes, Powell has some ‘splainin’ to do about his about-face. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/129 "2003-06-05T15:36:40Z")
Well, I’m not the guy to act as an apologist, but I will say this: There is something to be said for the fact that the U.S. government is not _continuing_ to feed us the same bullshit that led to this war. There _is_ a note of integrity in admitting they’re not finding anything. The thing is that the motivations that led to this war are increasingly being revealed to come from a “desperate times require desperate measures” point of view. This administration has the _luxury_ of acting with integrity now, because they have a year to find the goodies, the later the better because it will make all of us look all the more like jerks. And the truth of the matter is that there _are_ problems with Iraq’s accounting of their chemical and biological stocks. There is a reasonable chance that illegal weapons will be found. But if the weapons are not found, this administration has already shown that they are willing to bend if not completely transgress the boundaries of truth to get what they want. That’s when the **minty** gambit comes into play. However, I think the crisis will come much sooner than Nov. 3, 04. Instead, I think we’ll have some sort of sudden revelation on a very particular date: July 23, 2004, the weekend before the Democratic National Convention. If they don’t have the goods by then, you can bet they’ll find them anyway. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/130 "2003-06-05T15:45:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mhendo \* > \*\*I asked a similar question about a page and a half ago, but the silence is still deafening, isn’t it? \*\* As one of the pro-war advocates (although vehemently NOT!!! a Bush-Hugger), I have already stated in a couple of threads that Bush hoodwinked me. I supported the war because it appeared that Saddam was amassing nuclear capabilities, but now it appears that was false. While I still think toppling Saddam was a good idea, the premises on which the war was based were fraudulent. Bush lied to the American people; more importantly, he lied to ME, and I want that SOB out of the White House. Moreover, it appears that the US is making an unholy pig’s breakfast out of the reconstruction process. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/131 "2003-06-05T16:26:09Z")
**gobear** , I’ve noticed, and had meant to compliment you on being a stand-up guy in saying so. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/132 "2003-06-05T16:40:04Z")
And you’re the only one to really be out about how it, Gobear (if you’ll pardon the terrible pun). ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/133 "2003-06-05T16:43:45Z")
“out about how it”? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/134 "2003-06-05T17:06:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by monstro \* > \*\*OK, this is some serious fucked up stuff ya’ll. I almost _wish_ a Defender would post something assuring, just so my brain can entertain the idea that maybe it isn’t as fucked up as it seems. > > But even the Defenders have run out of assuring things to say. \*\* Good point, I have nothing to say, a line has been crossed. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/135 "2003-06-05T17:35:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*As one of the pro-war advocates (although vehemently NOT!!! a Bush-Hugger), I have already stated in a couple of threads that Bush hoodwinked me. I supported the war because it appeared that Saddam was amassing nuclear capabilities, but now it appears that was false. > > While I still think toppling Saddam was a good idea, the premises on which the war was based were fraudulent. Bush lied to the American people; more importantly, he lied to ME, and I want that SOB out of the White House. > > Moreover, it appears that the US is making an unholy pig’s breakfast out of the reconstruction process. \*\* I’m certainly not unhappy that SH is gone from Iraq, but as you say, the war was based on false premises. My criticism of the absent pro-war crowd was not directed at everyone, \*_gobear_, least of all you. I concede that plenty of good people supported the war, and often for pretty good reasons. But i don’t remember you calling anti-war people cowards, idiots, or un-American, or claiming that you knew everything and that we knew nothing. I was aiming my comments at the belligerent, arrogant people who claimed to know everything and who dismissed the anti-war crowd as nothing more than idiot cranks. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/136 "2003-06-05T17:40:43Z")
Thanks for the link **RTFirefly**. Did the German paper’s get it wrong or the Guardian? I noticed it was a DOD link though. It is sad that I was worried for a moment that they would spin control the transcript before dismissing the concern. That is how little credibility the Bushies have left with me now. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/137 "2003-06-05T18:01:30Z")
**Twist** et al., though I was not the most outspoken nor radical of the pro-war people on this board, I think I admitted that Bush et al. got me convinced back on page 1;) ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/138 "2003-06-05T18:20:34Z")
…especially when I haven’t finished reading the thread, but please believe me when I say that there are extenuating circumstances. I will be priinting out the whole thing for later perusal, FWIW: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gorgon Heap \* > \*\* > If he did resign, then what? Have any of you noticed how many top folks are fleeing the ship? Ari Fleisher, though not well-liked by all, always supported Bush but is now taking off. Gen. Shinseki, the Army Chief of Staff, is leaving. Rummy wanted Gen. Franks to take the post next, but Franks decided to retire instead. People are either being forced out or want out because they want nothing more to do with the administration. > > This adds a bit more the questions about why Powell stays in, I think. \*\* The benefit that could have been realized by a timely resignation by Powell, is that the event could have been a shock to the body politic. It could have jump-started some actual debate about the Administration’s policies in this adventure. The simple fact that a replacement Secretary of State would require Senate confirmation would have been an unmatched opportunity for Senate Democrats to grow a spine and hold Shrubya accountable for where Dick Cheney and Karl Rove wanted to steer this nation. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/139 "2003-06-05T20:13:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elf6c \* > \*\*Thanks for the link **RTFirefly**. Did the German paper’s get it wrong or the Guardian? I noticed it was a DOD link though. It is sad that I was worried for a moment that they would spin control the transcript before dismissing the concern. That is how little credibility the Bushies have left with me now. \*\* Yarr the scurvy dogs admit to their misdeeds here. > **[Corrections and clarifications](https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2003/jun/06/correctionsandclarifications)** > > A report which was posted on our website on June 4 under the heading "Wolfowitz: Iraq war was about oil" misconstrued remarks made by the US deputy defence secretary, Paul Wolfowitz, making it appear that he had said that oil was the main reason for... Time to walk the plank says I! ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069/140 "2003-06-05T20:25:31Z")
I noticed, **gobear**. And thank you for showing back bone. I went to see the movie ‘Dark Blue’ earlier tonight, and I guess it brings up this subject, from another angle: Is it OK to do something terrible if the end result is good? Should criminals be shot when caught redhanded? Are you guilty until proven innocent. A modern society says, emphatically **NO**. That’s not how it’s done, and The U.S. of A. is built on these principles, making it the first real modern democracy. The end doesn’t justify the means. I’m happy S.H. is out, but he’s out for the wrong reasons, and I think the U.S. is morally obliged to rebuild the country. You did it with Germany after WWII. All in all, I get a very strong ‘Wag the dog’ feeling. There’s no ‘internal affairs’ department in the WH, to my knowledge. As it is now, GWB and his administration will be judged by history or next election. I will be very concerned if he gets a 2nd term. There is actual talk in Europe about building a stronger EU, with a military power to match that of the U.S. Many people don’t trust the U.S. anymore. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-called-prewar-intelligence-reports-bullshit/179069.md?page=8)