He’s not the only Republican or former Republican- Lincoln Chaffee from RI has supported Obama, along with Charlie Crist and others that aren’t from the top of my head. And there are Democrats that have switched- Arthur Davis from AL, Joe Lieberman (at least in 08), Zell Miller, etc.
Do you question their motives as well? I think going against the grain of one’s party is a strong indication that the endorser truly believes it. I have little doubt that Joe Lieberman truly believed that McCain would be a better president. The “suspect” endorsements often seem to be from former rivals in their own party- many suspected McCain didn’t truly support Bush in 2000, or Hillary didn’t truly support Obama in 2008.
I noted upthread (post #13) that some people do switch for other reasons, for which reason you can’t be sure about CP.
Certainly I’m open to speculation about any or all of the above. Although speculation doesn’t mean “always assume it was not genuine”. Sometimes it is and sometimes it’s not, and you have to look at the history and circumstances.
For example, in the case of Chafee & Miller, they were always ideologically closer to the other party than to their own, and I don’t know of a better reason. In the case of Christ, it looks more like opportunism and hard feelings, and I would think some of the latter was involved in the Lieberman situation as well (along with a personal connection to McCain). I’m not familiar with Davis.
But here’s the question for you and others in this thread. Did you just take all these people (& others in that situation) at their word and accept that because they said they were changing for such-and-such reason that one could not consider alternative motivations?
When trying to judge someone’s motives (an extremely difficult task in most cases) the first place I look is what they say. Your speculation that Powell doesn’t actually believe his endorsement strikes me as a ridiculous and baseless guess. And I see no reason that what Powell said couldn’t be accepted as his actual beliefs.
This is one reason why I try and avoid speculating on peoples’ motives. Colin Powell has said why he endorsed Obama. It’s possible he’s not telling the truth. But I think it’s far more likely that he’s telling the truth about his reasons then that your wild, baseless guess about his motives is the reason for his endorsement.
I have never bought the idea, sometimes touted on these boards, that “Obama is a moderate Republican” when it comes to domestic policy where he has been the most effective promoter of Democratic policies since LBJ.
However I think it’s actually quite plausible for national security where Obama is in many ways a realist in the George HW Bush and Colin Powell mold. At the same time, since 2001 the Republican party has moved steadily towards neo-conservative crackpottery, and much of Romney’s rhetoric and his advisors belong to that vein. So it’s not at all hard to see Powell endorsing Obama because his own national security views are closer to Obama than Romney. At least that seems a much more reasonable theory than that it’s all about race.
It’s true that Powell is a moderate Republican, and to the left of many in the Republican party. But that never stopped him until it was about Obama, and he apparently had no problem serving under GWB and making the case for the Iraq war. I would think Powell is closer to Romney’s views than he is to GWB and the rest of that administration.
Plus, as noted above, he actually supported McCain in 2008. Until he went up against Obama.
I’m sure the fact that Powell is a more moderate Republican is a part of the equation. You won’t find Thomas Sowell endorsing Obama. But ISTM that the sum of CP’s political positioning ends up as “supports Republicans who are not running against Obama”.
A Republican apparently(?) had no problem serving under a Republican administration.
Besides the complete charade of Romney having views with a half-life longer than two weeks, you’ve made an assertion that ignores Powell’s own words in favour of “I would think.”
So it’s okay to ignore his stated rationale (including the choice of Palin, the focus in "palling around with terrorists, etc.) or the reasons other conservatives shied away from a McCain endorsement. No, your gut feeling is that even if everything else was the same except for a Clinton nomination, Powell would have been a good McCain supporter. He changed his mind because McCain was up against a darkie. :rolleyes:
It was shuch a shame to give them people the vote, and very, very wrong to entrust them with military or other positions of power. They clearly can’t think for themselves.
Seriously. Here we’ve got a situation where for over 200 years, 100% of white people endorsed a white person for president. But does Father Phipps think anything’s suspicious about this? Rush Limbaugh has never endorsed a black person for president, but is this suspicious? Of course not.
As for black people being under pressure to support a black candidate: sure, there’s that special kind of stupid that happens, no doubt. However, there’s another special kind of stupid that happens, which is that Republicans are so desperate to have black people among their ranks that they’ll fall all over themselves to support any black person who is conservative. Colin Powell has certainly felt the love from Republicans before, based on his combination of sincere conservatism and dark skin.
The stupid works both ways. There’s no evidence that Colin Powell took advantage of the pitiful love Republicans have for black conservatives, any more than there’s evidence that Powell was pressured to support a black candidate. Either accusation is a pretty serious accusation against his character, and they’re both shameful accusations to make without evidence.
The rest of your post has been addressed (other than the silly first paragraph), but it’s worth commenting on this.
You basic accusation is true. But it’s not stupid. Republicans are under pressure to show that they’re not racists without repudiating their principles. “Falling over themselves to support any Black person who is conservative” is an attempt to do this. Nothing stupid about it.
It’s no less stupid than black people who genuinely believe Republican policies are racist discouraging other black people from voting against Republicans. There’s good reason for folks to do that as well. If you call it stupid for black folks to pressure black folks to vote against the party that they believe hurt black folks, then it’s only fair to call it stupid for white folks to fawn all over black folks who support their own beliefs.
The point is that the pressure goes both ways, and you can no more make a case that Powell’s endorsement is made under pressure than I could make a case that his prestige under Bush was due to Republicans’ version of affirmative action.
So you’re saying then, F-P, that you suspect Powell’s stated reasons because he’s black? That if he were a white Republican ex-general and ex-Sec of State who supported Obama, you wouldn’t suspect his motives?
Maybe I’m reading you wrong here- but the only possible motive you’ve offered involves his race.
Well c’mon Marley, everybody knows if a black person supports a black politician it is purely because of race. I mean, that’s obvious.
Of course, if a white person supports a white politician their shared pigmentation would never, ever, have anything to do with it. No siree, not ever in a million years.
Well first off, I never called it stupid for black folks to pressure black folks etc. and I never addressed this at all or anything beyond CP’s own motivations. I think you need to consider whether your reaction indicates that you are approaching this in a knee jerk fashion.
But FWIW, I don’t think your assesment is correct. This is an Obama phenomenon, and did not appear in elections involving other choices from the same two parties and who held compable positions.
FWIW, I think you can make such a case, if you would like to. I will not object. Colin Powell is a very fine and capable man and he has served his country with distinction. But it’s unlikely that the color of his skin was never a factor in his career. As you note, Republicans fall over themselves to find Blacks that they can ally with, and in general, racial considerations are never far from the minds of people making political appointments.
He’s been in a low funk and high sulk since the loss. Bowing to the religious right and Billy Graham’s son’s urging, he picked the worst possible running mate without first vetting her. Then he abandoned his principles and allowed the woo-woo ultra right to turn his campaign events into hate fests, without putting a damper on things until it was too late. It was a loss of his own making, and he’s bitter about it all. I doubt he’ll ever get over it.
I’ll note with frustration that every single black person who has ever achieved distinction in America has been accused of benefiting from his skin color. I don’t think it’s fair.
No, I suggested some uncertainty about it, in post #13 and other subsequent posts.
But I was mainly referring to the part of your post that I quoted: “That if he were a white Republican ex-general and ex-Sec of State who supported Obama, you wouldn’t suspect his motives?”
On looking back at prior posts, I see that not only did I address this, but I addressed it in response to a post from you, in which you asked essentially the same question. What’s up with that?
I agree with this. It’s very unfortunate.
But it’s unavoidable. You can ignore the elephant in the room if you like, but that’s the best you can do. It’s there.
I can also not make that accusation. You just did, or you at least suggested it. It’s especially frustrating to me that you acknowledge that it’s not fair, yet you do it anyway.