# Colin Powell endorses Obama **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 19, 2008, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-endorses-obama/468636 "2008-10-19T13:25:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-endorses-obama/468636/141 "2008-10-20T16:44:39Z")
[Documentary on Colin Powell](http://www.hulu.com/watch/1393/saturday-night-live-colins-place)now popular with GOP. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-endorses-obama/468636/142 "2008-10-20T17:21:14Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > McCain sold out to the neocons and the Christian Right to win election, but that doesn’t mean his appointees would work that way, too. He sold out to the Christian Right, but he’s always been at least on the same wavelength as the neocons. “National Greatness” always had a large element of interventionism abroad. I don’t think he has the same animus against Powell as some neocon commentators, but he really isn’t very close to Powell’s more realist outlook on foreign policy. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-endorses-obama/468636/143 "2008-10-20T17:37:56Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > He sold out to the Christian Right, but he’s always been at least on the same wavelength as the neocons. “National Greatness” always had a large element of interventionism abroad. I don’t think he has the same animus against Powell as some neocon commentators, but he really isn’t very close to Powell’s more realist outlook on foreign policy. No, but then neither was Bush II, despite his campaign promises to the contrary. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-endorses-obama/468636/144 "2008-10-20T17:40:49Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You admire him for being in the wrong party? For being willing to cross party lines to speak on a matter of importance, instead of toe the party line. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-endorses-obama/468636/145 "2008-10-20T18:07:23Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > For being willing to cross party lines to speak on a matter of importance, instead of toe the party line. Zell Miller crosses party lines on virtually all matters. He very rarely, if ever, voted with the party. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-endorses-obama/468636/146 "2008-10-20T18:20:51Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Powell could just as easily have had a job in a McCain administration. That’s sort of my point. If McCain were currently ahead by a significant margin, one wonders whether Powell would have come out and endorsed _him_ (and then accepted a job in the _McCain_ administration). Powell just looks like a band-wagoner, springing his endorsement at this late date. Hey, I hope the endorsement persuades some fence-sitters, but it does nothing to elevate _my_ estimation of Powell. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-endorses-obama/468636/147 "2008-10-20T20:32:10Z")
> [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](#): > > You need to talk to less-stupid people. Very good. When you come back, bring an argument. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-endorses-obama/468636/148 "2008-10-20T21:26:21Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Well, OK. I concede that it might be, but it’s a big roll of the dice. (Assuming that we still accept that Obama and Powell did not communicate directly or by proxy, that is – Powell would have to go out on a limb and endorse, hoping he’d be rewarded?) > > I still say the most likely explanation is that this was not motivated by political calculation for gain. A number of Dopers with military connections have stated on numerous occassions that Powell is most _definately_ a “political general.” Maybe they’re full of shit, maybe they’re not, I dunno, but I wouldn’t be so sure that there wasn’t a political motivation behind his endorsement. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-endorses-obama/468636/149 "2008-10-20T21:40:51Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > Very good. When you come back, bring an argument. He said what I was thinking. Who did you talk to? What are their political leanings or their reasons for believing that Powell didn’t consider anything except race? If you say everybody you talked to said that, I believe you, but I think everybody you talked to said something stupid. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-endorses-obama/468636/150 "2008-10-20T21:59:53Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > Very good. When you come back, bring an argument. Not to pile on, but maybe this snark would be called for if your comment was more than a small bit of anecdotes. I mean I haven’t heard it once among my friends and coworkers but that means as little as the fact that you’ve heard it among yours. I’ve heard it from the Right wing talking heads but what effect does that have now? They are not talking to the swingables, they are trying to get the base to just not give up and stay home. At this particular point the people who matter are the swingables: those still undecided and those marginally attached. Are your friends a good sample of those folks? Maybe they are, and maybe they are even stupid after all. 🙂 (The two are not mutually exclusive.) Let us assume that they are representative for the sake of discussion, and that many swingables are likely to believe that Powell is only endorsing Obama because of shared complexion issues. If so will that make them any _less_ likely to vote for Obama or be neutral? If neutral then the fact that this winds down the clock is still a plus for Team Obama. Beyond that “some” is not “all”. Some swingables will react to the Right’s dismissal of Powell as being a race issue as just more negativity and with distaste. Some swingables actually have respect for Powell and will not believe the dismissive crap even if hey are not offended by it - they may just end up more comfortable with their recent choice to of Obama than they had been, or be just a little bit more open to be swung over from neutral, or a little less likely to come out to vote against him. So even if your friends are a representative of a large chunk of swingables (and lord knows mine are not), if they will just not be moved by this endorsement either way then the net is still a nice plus for Obama … anything that helps cement things where they are is good for his chances. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-endorses-obama/468636/151 "2008-10-20T22:08:16Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > That’s sort of my point. If McCain were currently ahead by a significant margin, one wonders whether Powell would have come out and endorsed _him_ (and then accepted a job in the _McCain_ administration). > > Powell just looks like a band-wagoner, springing his endorsement at this late date. > > Hey, I hope the endorsement persuades some fence-sitters, but it does nothing to elevate _my_ estimation of Powell. Why can’t Powell be like any other fence sitter, uncertain until recent events, persuaded by Obama’s demeanor in the debates, turned off by Republican antics, etc. He sid himself that he has known John McCain for many years and was probably willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, but in the end just decided that McCain has shown poor judgement. ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-endorses-obama/468636/152 "2008-10-20T22:31:26Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > Very good. When you come back, bring an argument. > [@everyone Lakai's talked to](#): > > Powell did it because Obama is black. Actually, those making accusations are supposed to bring the argument, but hey, I’ll handicap ya. > [@Lakai](#): > > It’s hard not to make that leap of logic when no other member of the Bush administration is supporting Obama. Pretty much all of Bush’s administration has been in lockstep with the Republican Party this whole time. Has something changed to make that unlikely now? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-endorses-obama/468636/153 "2008-10-20T22:42:31Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > A number of Dopers with military connections have stated on numerous occassions that Powell is most _definately_ a “political general.” Maybe they’re full of shit, maybe they’re not, I dunno, but I wouldn’t be so sure that there wasn’t a political motivation behind his endorsement. I looked through every thread with “Colin Powell” in the title, and only found [one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8722256&postcount=4) such statement: [QUOTE=Tranquilis] when I was still wearing a uniform, Powell always had the stink of “political general” about him - Always knew which way the winds were blowing, and was always in line with those trends. [/QUOTE] Anyway, he’s had ample time to publicly decry lots of naughty things the Bush Administration has done, including claiming that Administration officials pulled the wool over his eyes, rather than the intelligence community. So far, he’s refused to do so, which would seem to indicate that he’s not all about his public image. Speaking of things Dopers said about Powell in previous threads… [QUOTE=mlees] …Powell may be hesitant to give a public endorsement, because he doesn’t want his name to become a substitute for an actual debate on the issues. [/QUOTE] That’s a pretty good point, [no](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10157528&postcount=30)? [QUOTE=RickJay] I have no doubt Powell will come out strongly in favour of whichever candidate first establishes a commanding lead. [/QUOTE] On the other hand, that now sounds remarkably [prescient](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10157929&postcount=34). ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-endorses-obama/468636/154 "2008-10-20T22:49:18Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > That’s sort of my point. If McCain were currently ahead by a significant margin, one wonders whether Powell would have come out and endorsed _him_ (and then accepted a job in the _McCain_ administration). > > Powell just looks like a band-wagoner, springing his endorsement at this late date. > > Hey, I hope the endorsement persuades some fence-sitters, but it does nothing to elevate _my_ estimation of Powell. The Obama campaign said that Powell’s endorsement came at the perfect time. The Times said that Obama and Powell met once, and spoke on the phone a number of times. McCain hasn’t spoken to Powell since at least June. So, it seems very likely Obama convinced him a while ago, and they settled on this weekend for the announcement. Under other circumstances it could have been a really big deal, as it was it made the front pages of all the papers I get. I doubt Powell is going to get any position in the Obama administration (or that he wants one) but Obama is good at collecting advisers, and Powell would demonstrate that he reaches across the aisle. The New Yorker article on the foreign policy of McCain and Obama said that Obama has 500 advisers in a variety of areas of foreign policy, only 3 of whom are paid. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-endorses-obama/468636/155 "2008-10-20T22:53:41Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I looked through every thread with “Colin Powell” in the title, and only found [one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8722256&postcount=4) such statement: You’re a braver drudge than I am. None of them, as I recall, backed up their assertions with anything like a verifiable cite, so its not like finding dozens of them would have proven much of anything anyway. > [@](#): > > Anyway, he’s had ample time to publicly decry lots of naughty things the Bush Administration has done, including claiming that Administration officials pulled the wool over his eyes, rather than the intelligence community. So far, he’s refused to do so, which would seem to indicate that he’s not all about his public image. IIRC, Powell’s been spending his time on the “rubber chicken dinner” circuit since leaving office. No doubt he’s been well paid for his appearances, coming out and saying, “The Bush Administration lied to me (or forced me to lie, or are a bunch of mindless jerks who should be the first with their backs up against the wall when the revolution comes).” would probably significantly impact his earning potential in a negative direction. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-endorses-obama/468636/156 "2008-10-20T22:59:38Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > You’re a braver drudge than I am. None of them, as I recall, backed up their assertions with anything like a verifiable cite, so its not like finding dozens of them would have proven much of anything anyway. > > IIRC, Powell’s been spending his time on the “rubber chicken dinner” circuit since leaving office. No doubt he’s been well paid for his appearances, coming out and saying, “The Bush Administration lied to me (or forced me to lie, or are a bunch of mindless jerks who should be the first with their backs up against the wall when the revolution comes).” would probably significantly impact his earning potential in a negative direction. Well, it’s not a massively controversial proposition [that Powell is a bandwagon guy]. I just think they may be mistaking centrism for poll-following. I’m pretty sure he’d make a lot more money on the lecture circuit or book tours if he’d come out and said something shocking (“Bush threatened to eat my son’s penis if I didn’t tell the UN we should invade Iraq!”) than by being the guy who quietly disagreed with Administration policy. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-endorses-obama/468636/157 "2008-10-20T23:10:03Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, it’s not a massively controversial proposition [that Powell is a bandwagon guy]. I just think they may be mistaking centrism for poll-following. > > I’m pretty sure he’d make a lot more money on the lecture circuit or book tours if he’d come out and said something shocking (“Bush threatened to eat my son’s penis if I didn’t tell the UN we should invade Iraq!”) than by being the guy who quietly disagreed with Administration policy. Maybe. He might be labelled as a bastard by both sides. The Right calling him “a traitor,” while the Left roasting him for not coming out and speaking when it could have done some good. (Lets face it, if he’d walked out of the Administration during the runup to the war, and announced that it was because there was **no** evidence for WMDs, it would have no doubt put a serious kink in the Admin’s plans, to say the least.) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-endorses-obama/468636/158 "2008-10-20T23:14:02Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > Maybe. He might be labelled as a bastard by both sides. The Right calling him “a traitor,” while the Left roasting him for not coming out and speaking when it could have done some good. (Lets face it, if he’d walked out of the Administration during the runup to the war, and announced that it was because there was **no** evidence for WMDs, it would have no doubt put a serious kink in the Admin’s plans, to say the least.) Sure. I prefer to assume that he genuinely didn’t know, whether or not the Administration did. While I’m not a personal fan of Powell’s politics [see “lifting ban on gays in military”, opposition to], I like to think that an honorable soldier wouldn’t support an invasion that would put American (or anyone else’s) lives at risk for no good reason. That goes double given Powell’s opposition to interference in the Kosovo crisis, etc. ETA: Personally, I believed there were WMDs even after we hadn’t found them for a while. My opposition to the war was based entirely on other factors (already in Afghanistan, dangerous foreign policy precedent to set vis-a-vis unprovoked aggression, obvious lies and half-truths being told like “Saddam is in cahoots with Al Quaeda”, the complete inability of the American public to understand what it was getting into) ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-endorses-obama/468636/159 "2008-10-20T23:17:09Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Sure. I prefer to assume that he genuinely didn’t know, whether or not the Administration did. While I’m not a personal fan of Powell’s politics [see “lifting ban on gays in military”, opposition to], I like to think that \*\*an honorable soldier \*\*wouldn’t support an invasion that would put American (or anyone else’s) lives at risk for no good reason. Bolding emphasis mine. Powell was not a soldier at the time. He was the Secretary of State, a political appointment. Powell has been a political opportunist his entire career. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-endorses-obama/468636/160 "2008-10-20T23:18:09Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Powell was not a soldier at the time. He was the Secretary of State, a political appointment. > > Powell has been a political opportunist his entire career. When he dies, his headstone will say “General”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-endorses-obama/468636.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-endorses-obama/468636.md?page=9)