In your opinion.
It could be that in Powell’s opinion (although I wont pretend to speak for him) the nation’s best interests might be served more by shutting the fuck up and letting democracy work.
But doesn’t democracy work by all of us advocating for what we see as the best interests of the country, engaging in the exchange of ideas?
Really, if (and that is the big hypothetical) if Powell really did believe that a McCain-Palin administration was significantly dangerous for the country’s future, and that an Obam-Biden administration would significantly make the world a safer place and our country’s future more prosperous, then why would he think that “shutting the fuck up” would be in the nation’s best interests and why would it be the classy thing to do?
Well, I didn’t say it would be low class to declare your party’s opponent the better choice. I said he’s too classy.
Some people feel that not bad-mouthing former colleagues is classy, even when you have the ammunition to go after them. When he’s asked who he supports, he’s declining to say. That’s a tacit way of supporting Obama, and some people consider it classy.
He probably doesn’t think that a McCain-Palin administration is dangerous. He probably just feels like he was used.
Excuse me? How does expressing one’s opinion interfere with the working of democracy?
Plus, I certainly wouldn’t expect Powell to go out on the road for Obama. A simple, low key, endorsement would be more like it.
**Mosier **and **John **Mace–just curious–if it happens that Powell does endorse Obama, are you prepared to denounce him as a classless turncoat, or that you misjudged his character, or to concede that it was much more likely than you had thought it (and owe a few apologies, IMO), or what? It would be more interesting if you’d answer now, rather than wait until it happens (if it does), but I can ask again in a few weeks if you’d prefer.
You seem unusually vigorous in stating what can only be an uninformed opinion. Personally, if I were Powell, I’d feel I owed the Republicans very little at this point.
I’m curious about how Powell feels about Obama. He had the opportunity to be the first serious black presidential candidate in 2000. He may or may not have gotten the Republican nomination, but he was very popular and appealed to independents. I would have voted for him. Now Obama took the chance that Powell gave up, and is probably closer to Powell politically as well. Obama could do worse than use Powell as an adviser if elected. Given the outcome of the first Iraq War which adhered to the Powell Doctrine vs the second which did not, Powell is someone to listen to, and Obama is good at listening.
So by the same token is Condi Rice tacitly supporting Obama? 
(It’s near the end.)
That’s okay. If she really supports Obama I’d rather she kept her mouth shut. Yeah, it’s classy to STFU, Condi, really!
Maybe…but I doubt Powell was pleased with it. How could he be? He gave perhaps the most important speech to the United Nations laying out Bush’s case for war. At the time he thought what he was saying was reliable. Later he found out his own administration bullshitted him and his testimony to the UN was smoke and mirrors. Guys like Powell are generally not pleased being used in such a manner (in my experience with others of his ilk).
Certainly. But Powell may be hesitant to give a public endorsement, because he doesn’t want his name to become a substitute for an actual debate on the issues.
Because an endorsement from Colin Powell wouldn’t result in the Exchange of Ideas. It would result in the Herding of Sheep. And he knows this.
ETA: mlees beat me to it, and was classier about it to boot :o
His endorsement would be part of the exchange of ideas, part of the debate. Becoming involved in the debate is not a substitute for the debate.
What would other moderates and swing voters do? Well they’d throw it into the mix. They might take what he says more seriously because of who he is, but that is indeed part of the exchange of ideas, we respect certain people more than others and look at something in a different way if someone we respect says it is a good idea or not. We do not just believe it unquestioningly, but the thoughts of a trustworthy source and the opinions of someone we consider (rightly or wrongly) expert are a meaningful and appropriate part of the discourse.
But, no, he should not attempt to influence the outcome into the direction that he thinks is best for the country and the world (again big assumption for the sake of the discussion) because his participating in the debate might actually have an effect on the outcome of the debate.
In my view, in this case “loyal” and “classy” contradict each other. A person with class would not have allowed himself to be used by the Bush administration. He let blind loyalty (to an indivdidual) override loyalty to the public.
I have no doubt Powell will come out strongly in favour of whichever candidate first establishes a commanding lead.
I understand Powell’s endorsement might get some folks to talk about the lead up to Gulf War II, which in itself is not a bad thing.
However, there are plenty of folks who might not go this deep.
Consider the fact that most politicians actively court nationally known figures for a public endorsement, be they fellow politicians, entertainers, sports figures, buisness leaders, and such like.
Oprah may not have any more access to classified info on GW II than I do, but her face (and popularity) obviously affects the national scene. It may not make absolute logical sense, but it is definately not a factor that can be ignored.
The politicians hope that some of this popularity, or in the case of Powell, the gravitas and the reputation he has for “high personal honor”, may rub off a little onto them (in the subconsious of the voters), when they get their photos taken with the the celebrity/national figure.
Before this thread, I had never realized that Powell had such a large and fervent following.
Endorsements are like movie reviews. The candidates / producers hope that an endorser / reviewer that people follow and feel thinks like they do will lead some people to vote for them / go to their movie. But with the free marketplace of endorsers / reviewers I doubt this has too much effect, and absolutely none on democracy.
I don’t know what I would have to apologize for, if I turn out to be wrong. If he endorses either candidate I will be surprised, and even more surprised if he makes any effort to publicly help their campaign. Obviously if this happens I will have been wrong in my judgment of him. I don’t know what more you want from me than that.
Which statements do you think are more “unusually vigorous”; claiming that he is bitter toward Republicans (even though he hasn’t said such that I am aware of) and ready to publicly denounce them and campaign against them, or claiming that he will continue to act in the way that he has always acted and is currently acting?
I never said he would be a classless turncoat for denouncing Republicans, by the way. I just said that I don’t expect he will do it.
I didn’t say it does, but it’s entirely possible that Powell doesn’t feel comfortable using his credibility and reputation to affect a political campaign. He might be one of the people with the (perfectly reasonable) opinion that celebrities and popular personalities cheapen a campaign and make it shallow, and that campaigns should be won or lost based on the character of the candidates and their policy positions.
Keep in mind that I’m just making observations about Powell here, and nothing would make me happier than Powell endorsing Obama, because I think it would greatly strengthen is campaign. But he hasn’t attached his face and credentials to a political campaign before, so what makes you so sure he’ll do it now? He knows that even saying “I intend to vote for X” has a huge political impact that he might not feel comfortable causing.
Powell has much to lose, and as far as I can tell, nothing to gain by mentioning how he will vote. Logically, there’s no reason to do it.
It would appear that the campaign staff of the candidates sure invest a lot of effort trying to gain the endorsements of various respected or popular people who are nationally known. If advertising/PR didn’t work, there wouldn’t be as much time, money, and effort put into wooing endorsers.
While it has no effect on Democracy as a concept, it has an effect on enough voters for the campaign staffs to make the effort.
Does it appear to you that there is little or no effort made by the staffs to obtain endorsements?
Or do you mean it has no effect on you personally?