# Colin Powell Resigns **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 15, 2004, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-resigns/274859 "2004-11-15T15:04:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Roseworm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@Roseworm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roseworm)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-resigns/274859/41 "2004-11-15T19:09:51Z")
As of this posting, it looks like Condoleezza Rice is the odds-on favorite to replace Powell. She is _exactly_ the war-time consigliere Bush needs. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-resigns/274859/42 "2004-11-15T19:13:08Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > Oh no? Funny that stupid wardrobe malfunction had quite an impact on TV. As I noted, the FCC is out of control. You did read that, right? But as I noted, the FCC does not have any jurisdiction, for now, over cable, satellite, newspapers, movies, or the Internet. The FCC only controls broadcast radio and television. > [@](#): > > Bigoted or not, it’s human nature. I wish people were smart enough to say “well 51% voted for the man who went on and invaded Iran”. Instead they’re going to call us a bunch of fucking crazy cowboys, _all of us_. > > Bah, we’ve been down this road before. Unlike the extreme whiny left, I do not care if other countries call us “fucking crazy cowboys.” Let 'em. I care more that our country is pursuing wrong-headed policies that will damage our nation’s security and encourage terrorism. I want America to pursue diplomacy and multilateralism for purely pragmatic reasons; because I want other nations to ally with us out of their own self-interest, not from some pathitic desire to be loved. We should defuse terror by pursung an active program of aid to impoverished nations and encourage open trade and cultural channels to moribund economies like Egypt’s because helping them to prosper is ultimately good for us. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-resigns/274859/43 "2004-11-15T19:13:13Z")
> [@sugaree](#): > > Resign? And effectively hand the asylum over to the lunatics? As opposed to being a captive within it? It’s a lose lose situation for sure, but at least one way allows for egress with dignity intact. > [@](#): > > Would you then tell the world the true reason you resigned, maybe campaign against Bush’s policies in the media, or would you hide behind some kind of bad-health/family crisis farce? I don’t know, that’s when people start having “accidents”. ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-resigns/274859/44 "2004-11-15T19:13:41Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > After all, THEY helped Bush win. Since when are liberals entitled to representation in a Republican Cabinet? Well, there’s that whole representing all of America thing…no, you’re right. Division. We need more division. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-resigns/274859/45 "2004-11-15T19:19:53Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > Unlike the extreme whiny left, I do not care if other countries call us “fucking crazy cowboys.” Let 'em. I care more that our country is pursuing wrong-headed policies that will damage our nation’s security and encourage terrorism. I want America to pursue diplomacy and multilateralism for purely pragmatic reasons; because I want other nations to ally with us out of their own self-interest, not from some pathitic desire to be loved. I don’t see where we differ here. I want all the things you mention too. Those things become harder to achieve when the world thinks we’re fucking cowboys. That is exactly why _I do care_ that they us in that light. I wish they would realize that half the country probably agrees with them, but they’ll only see us as one big 'ol lump of Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-resigns/274859/46 "2004-11-15T19:25:25Z")
> [@sugaree](#): > > Powell was privately against the war and knew that UN speech was full of shit, but what could he do? Resign? Refuse to play along? > > Maybe it’s a Great Debate: you’re Bush’s Secretary of State. You know that there’s evidence no of WMA. You know that the very plan for war is weak. But you are one of the few voices of reason. You’ve handled your boss through skilled diplomacy up until now–but now, on the brink of disaster, you just can’t get through. And you’re the one who has to deliver this prime peice of half-assedness to the UN. > > It’s okay, Cheney tells you. Your approval rating is in the 70s. You can afford to lose a few points. > > What’s the honorable thing to do in this situation? I cannot comprehend how there can be any path that includes going along with a war for known false reasons that can be considered even remotely honorable. I’d have resigned in his place. I’d HAVE to resign if I ever wanted to sleep at night again with drugs and/or alcohol. Hell, even if I truly and honestly believed my reasons for going to war were correct and they turned out not to be, I’d consider eating the barrel of a gun. If I went to war knowing the intel was doubtful… I’d no doubt decorate the wall. How can somebody live themselves after such a thing? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-resigns/274859/47 "2004-11-15T19:31:41Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > Then why did you say got my facts wrong when I said that America isn’t your homeland when you just admitted as much? Because you said I “lived in Australia.” And because I still maintain legals status as a US resident – and could apply for citizenship tomorrow if I so desired. But I don’t. > [@](#): > > America has always been arrogant, but at the moment, we’re the dominant force on this planet,. Intolerance–well, I hate the anti-gay movement’s successes, but there are a lot of people who are tolerant. Xenophobia–we’re in the midst of the greatest wave of immigration our nation has ever seen. A xenophobic nation would have kept them out. Militarism–we have an all-volunteer army, for now. Censorship–well, the FCC is out of control, but the government can’t touch cable TV, movies, newspapers, the Internet, or satellite radio The xenophobia I speak of is reflected in the general attitude towards the Iraq invasion – a war that had up to 80% support in your country. It’s not just xenophobia mind you, but the _combination_ of all the other attributes combined that has given rise to the current surge of nationalism. > [@](#): > > I didn;t vote for him, nor did 49% of the nation. You don;t seem to know that Bush won a very narrow victory. It seems bigoted of you to write off almost half of the country that agrees that Bush is a bad leader. I understand that perfectly, and said as much in [**this post**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5490141&postcount=557) a few days ago. Fact is, I am on _your_ side – but we don’t have to necessarily agree in the way we go about fighting the Bush regime. Am I virulent and strident in their condemnation? Perhaps, but the way I see it, this is a fight on all fronts. You take care of diplomacy if you wish – I’ll fight in the trenches. > [@](#): > > By all means, keep fighting the power, but try not to be as hateful as the people you decry. We’re all in this together, including the people Bush has deceived. See above. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-resigns/274859/48 "2004-11-15T19:31:55Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > I don’t see where we differ here. I want all the things you mention too. Those things become harder to achieve when the world thinks we’re fucking cowboys. That is exactly why _I do care_ that they us in that light. I wish they would realize that half the country probably agrees with them, but they’ll only see us as one big 'ol lump of Americans. We differ because it seems to me that you want America to be loved as a goal in itself, that our goals and our needs should be subject to world opinion, that American security is less important than being liked. I don’t care if we are liked or not; I want the US to pursue a less aggressive stance purely from pragmatic motives. I’m opposed to Bush’s militarism because it’s bad for the US, not because it pisses off foreigners. It’s better for us to form alliances because it’s good for the US, not because we want approval from other countries. If I thought unilateral war making were beneficial to our interests, I’d support it. As it is, I think Bush’s international strategy is a disaster. You make diplomatic conncetions because they are useful to you, not because you like them. To quote Lord Palmerston, "“We have no eternal allies and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual and those interests it is our duty to follow” ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-resigns/274859/49 "2004-11-15T19:36:26Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Because you said I “lived in Australia.” And because I still maintain legals status as a US resident – and could apply for citizenship tomorrow if I so desired. But I don’t. Ah, but I recall that you had Australia as ytour location under your screen name once upon a time, did you not? > [@](#): > > I understand that perfectly, and said as much in [**this post**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5490141&postcount=557) a few days ago. Fact is, I am on _your_ side – but we don’t have to necessarily agree in the way we go about fighting the Bush regime. Am I virulent and strident in their condemnation? Perhaps, but the way I see it, this is a fight on all fronts. You take care of diplomacy if you wish – I’ll fight in the trenches. That’ll work. I can offer the carrot; and you can be brandish the stick. IIRC, MLK Jr. said something to the effect of, “If the government won’t deal with me, then they’ll have to deal with the militants.” See above. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-resigns/274859/50 "2004-11-15T19:50:54Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > Unlike the extreme whiny left, I do not care if other countries call us “fucking crazy cowboys.” Let 'em. I care more that our country is pursuing wrong-headed policies that will damage our nation’s security and encourage terrorism. I want America to pursue diplomacy and multilateralism for purely pragmatic reasons; because I want other nations to ally with us out of their own self-interest, not from some pathitic desire to be loved. **World Eater** already took care of this one. I’ll just want to ask you _why_ you think other countries have taken to calling you “crazy fuckin’ cowboys”? If the shoe doesn’t fit…get a new one. Meantime, you are what you are. And deceived or not, a _majority_ of you have chosen to prolong the crazy fuckin’ cowboy behavior. _That’s_ what’s so bewildering. That you’ve\* chosen to re-elect a group of proven liars with an openly [**radical agenda.**](http://www.newamericancentury.org/) \*In the collective form just so we’re clear. Which obviously leaves out a ton of Americans that I still very much admire and appreciate. On preview – no, you have me confused with someone else. I’d love to vist Australia but never have; and certainly never had it under my location. Past 12 years divided between NY/CT. Last 3 in the Dom Rep. Next stop, who knows? I’ll be here for a while still But I’d like to die in Spain. As for tactics, we’re agreed then. Good. Glad to hear it. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-resigns/274859/51 "2004-11-15T20:06:43Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > We differ because it seems to me that you want America to be loved as a goal in itself, that our goals and our needs should be subject to world opinion, that American security is less important than being liked. Nothing is more important to me the the security of this country. Being “not hated” by the world directly translates into better security. Being “not hated” means the other countries of the world will work with us when we pursue an “interest” (as long as it isn’t fucked up). Being respected around the globe _is beneficial to our interests_. I want the world to like us so we don’t get our asses blown up, not because I think it would be real swell if people liked us. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-resigns/274859/52 "2004-11-15T20:08:33Z")
Might have been thinking of **Redboss**. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-resigns/274859/53 "2004-11-15T20:14:44Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Might have been thinking of **Redboss**. Ah, that’s it. My apologies to **RedFury** for the confusion. **World Eater** , glad to hear it. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-resigns/274859/54 "2004-11-15T20:38:35Z")
As to the whole issue of the world perceiving us as “crazy fucking cowboys,” I guess it’s nice that you’re willing to have the rest of the world hold that perception. I’d be more comfortable if we could ensure that anybody holding it is holding it in error. IOW, I think we’re all in agreement with the notion that it’s important that the administration actually not BE “crazy fucking cowboys.” ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-resigns/274859/55 "2004-11-15T20:54:51Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > As to the whole issue of the world perceiving us as “crazy fucking cowboys,” I guess it’s nice that you’re willing to have the rest of the world hold that perception. I’d be more comfortable if we could ensure that anybody holding it is holding it in error. > > IOW, I think we’re all in agreement with the notion that it’s important that the administration actually not BE “crazy fucking cowboys.” I have absolutely no problem with America being thought of as CFCs; i wouldn’t even mind America being CFCs, but it is more important that America be _competent_ CFCs. We invaded Iraq based on lies, but I could have gotten over that. We didn’t follow the diplomatic niceties before invading Iraq, but I could have gotten over that. Deposing Saddam was a beneficial act. But the Bush regime has so thoroughly fucked up the administration of Iraq I could cry. We destroyed the Iraqi government, folded our hands and refused to set up an alternate police structure, and then we were surprised that Iraq fell into bloody chaos. We alienated the Shi’a clergy when they could have helped discipline their people. We disbanded the Iraqi army, and then we were surprised that Iraqi unemployment rose. The Coalition Provisonal Authroity twiddled its thumbs making irrelevant rules for Iraqi trade that didn’t exist instead of taking concrete action to help the Iraqi people. We ignored the material needs of Iraq, letting people go months without electricity or water. Invading Iraq was a mistake, but one that could have been ameliorated with intelligent, practical policies. Instead, stupidity, laziness, and sheer incompetence have destroyed the country and American credibility. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-resigns/274859/56 "2004-11-15T21:02:59Z")
Powell before his tenure as Secretary: Statesmanly and dignified Powell during his tenure as Secretary: Uncertain, compromising to the point of irrelevance Powell during his tenure as Secretary: Reviled by the right for not taking a stand, reviled by the left for…not taking a stand. ---
**Author:** ![UselessGit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/74df32/32.png) [@UselessGit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UselessGit)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-resigns/274859/57 "2004-11-15T22:24:04Z")
Mr. Powell was supposed to meet the Icelandic PM tomorrow, the bastard…Coincidence? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-resigns/274859/58 "2004-11-16T00:43:01Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > I have absolutely no problem with America being thought of as CFCs; i wouldn’t even mind America being CFCs, but it is more important that America be _competent_ CFCs. Dude, the ozone layer is thin enough as it is! (I know, I know. I was just amused at the coincidental abbreviation.) > [@gobear](#): > > Invading Iraq was a mistake, but one that could have been ameliorated with intelligent, practical policies. Instead, stupidity, laziness, and sheer incompetence have destroyed the country and American credibility. Don’t forget greed. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-resigns/274859/59 "2004-11-16T00:51:03Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > Powell before his tenure as Secretary: Statesmanly and dignified > Powell during his tenure as Secretary: Uncertain, compromising to the point of irrelevance > Powell during his tenure as Secretary: Reviled by the right for not taking a stand, reviled by the left for…not taking a stand. GodDAMN it, the last line should be “Powell after his tenure as Secretary:” ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colin-powell-resigns/274859/60 "2004-11-16T06:35:59Z")
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