# Collateral effects of a cashless society **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 5, 2016, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collateral-effects-of-a-cashless-society/761828 "2016-08-05T12:06:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2016, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collateral-effects-of-a-cashless-society/761828/21 "2016-08-05T15:32:56Z")
I’d think that even if the society went cashless, there would be some kind of token used for black market/nefarious/under the radar purposes. Think cigarettes in prison, for an example. Where it would get interesting is where those tokens intersect the virtual cash world- there would be exchange rates, arbitrage and a bunch of other stuff. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2016, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collateral-effects-of-a-cashless-society/761828/22 "2016-08-05T15:48:30Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > That’s because the alternative of using cash also has costs involved. The banks charge money to deliver cash to the stores (especially the coins), the money has to be secured and counted, and there’s the possibility of being held up. > > In short, cash transactions are not free. Unless you are getting armored truck deliveries and drop-offs, the banks don’t charge anything for taking money and giving out change orders. I pay over $1000 a month in credit card processing fees, which is how the majority of my clients pay. I spend maybe 5 minutes, (probably more like 2) a day counting my cash. I’ve spent hours on the phone with the bank and merchant services when something was wrong with my cc machine. The bank is on my way home and I just deposit it in the ATM. I prefer cash, because every cash dollar a client gives me is like $1.03. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2016, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collateral-effects-of-a-cashless-society/761828/23 "2016-08-05T18:02:08Z")
I don’t have a smart phone and have no plans to get one. I still use a fair amount of cash and also write cheques, as well as checks. The guy who mows my lawns and cleans snow off my driveway uses only cash or cheques. My barber does not take CCs. Nor my doctor on the rare occasions I have to pay him. Nor my chiropracter. And my US cell phone company will not process a credit or debit card payment even from a US bank, unless I can give them a US zip code, so I have to send them checks. I probably spend over $100 a week in cash transactions. Some of the recipients may be dodging taxes but most do not. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2016, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collateral-effects-of-a-cashless-society/761828/24 "2016-08-05T18:07:54Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Unless you are getting armored truck deliveries and drop-offs, the banks don’t charge anything for taking money and giving out change orders. Not directly. But the bank spends a lot of money on handling cash, and that cost must come from its customers. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2016, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collateral-effects-of-a-cashless-society/761828/25 "2016-08-05T18:11:20Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Not directly. But the bank spends a lot of money on handling cash, and that cost must come from its customers. It does, but not on a per transaction basis. It is distributed through the cost of all products, but I doubt any savings from eliminating cash will result in lower banking fees, and likely higher ones anyway. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2016, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collateral-effects-of-a-cashless-society/761828/26 "2016-08-05T18:42:23Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > How would it affect crime? The drug trade is strictly cash. I’ve heard that they accept Tide. ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collateral-effects-of-a-cashless-society/761828/27 "2016-08-06T06:24:55Z")
Many beggars accept Google Wallet and some carry Stripe or Paypal readers. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collateral-effects-of-a-cashless-society/761828/28 "2016-08-06T07:11:14Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I prefer cash, because every cash dollar a client gives me is like $1.03. Yeah, but no one can rob you of your credit card receipts. I’ll bet if the ever is a trend toward stores going cashless, they will get insurance breaks. During the US Civil war, postage stamps were a medium for small transactions for a while. I’m not sure why there was a cash flow problem, yet people had stamps-- I think it just had something to do with metal shortages-- but eventually the Confederacy printed fractional currency-- 50 cent and 25 cent bills. My point is, people would probably use something for very small transactions-- we’d figure it out, just like we figured out using precious metal as a medium for transactions in the first place. Electronic transactions are just as representative as cash. Cash has no intrinsic value, just the agreed-upon one we imbue it with. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collateral-effects-of-a-cashless-society/761828/29 "2016-08-06T13:47:55Z")
I’m a little surprised that nobody has mentioned implants yet. That’s where the technology is going, although it will be several years yet before it’s ready for wide-spread use. > [@](#): > > Wallets are becoming more integrated with other things. Soon, we might all use our phones as a way to pay for things. However, the ultimate way to ensure that you don’t forget your wallet at home is to embed it into your skin. > > That’s exactly what Patric Lanhed is doing, having placed a tiny computer chip under his skin that holds the key to his Bitcoin wallet, enabling him to scan his hand in order to pay for purchases. > **[This Chip Is Implanted Under The Skin And Used To Pay For Things Using Bitcoin](https://www.techtimes.com/articles/102366/20151102/chip-implanted-under-skin-used-pay-things-using-bitcoin.htm)** > > Patric Lanhed, in partnership with Juanjo Tara, an Arduino developer, has come up with a computer chip that is implanted under the skin and has NFC capabilities, enabling users to pay for goods. > [@](#): > > A few months ago, in the expo-hall of the Austin Convention Center, I laid my left hand flat on a sheet of sterile paper and let a very tall, friendly man insert an RFID chip into the space between my thumb and index finger. “Oh, you’ve got thick skin,” he said, pressing the needle a little harder. I made a half-hearted joke about being a woman on the internet, and the whole thing was over. > > Today, the tiny scab has healed, and the device sits just below the surface of my skin, where it looks like a little pill poking up out of my hand. Often, when I tell people I have an RFID chip, they react with confusion and a tiny drop of horror. “You have a what? Why?” Then they want to touch the little bead through my skin — if I squeeze my thumb and pinky together you can see the bulge and feel its hard exterior. > **[Why Did I Implant A Chip In My Hand?](https://www.popsci.com/my-boring-cyborg-implant/)** > > The author's RFID implant can do a lot of fun things—but it's not as scary or as useful as you might think. > [@](#): > > Unless you’ve been on a Buzzfeed-less streak in the past few days, you’ve probably heard of a Buzzfeed news reporter’s mission to spend a month without a wallet — a journey that led him to implant an NFC-enabled chip inside his own hand. > > Tech reporter Charlie Warzel first took up the experiment to see whether the mobile payments world has evolved enough to allow an average consumer in the U.S. to forever ditch cash, checks, physical credit or debit cards. (No, was the answer, but read the full story here). Warzel ends up in Stockholm “to see out the extreme conclusion of a monthlong experiment,” he writes. > **[This Guy Just Implanted a Payments Chip in His Hand, Literally \[VIDEO\] | Bank...](https://bankautomationnews.com/allposts/payments/next-gen-payments-mobile-wearable-implantable-video/)** > > Your next wallet may be your hand. Unless you've been on a Buzzfeed-less streak in the past few days, you've probably heard of a Buzzfeed news reporter's mission to spend a month without a wallet -- a journey that led him to implant an NFC-enabled... ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collateral-effects-of-a-cashless-society/761828/30 "2016-08-06T13:53:04Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > How would it affect crime? The drug trade is strictly cash. When I got into real estate, I was amazed at the amounts and volume of cash that is used every day in the business. > > I believe organized crime is one thing that keeps cash going. That’s the biggest argument for going cashless. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collateral-effects-of-a-cashless-society/761828/31 "2016-08-06T13:57:15Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > I’m a little surprised that nobody has mentioned implants yet. That’s where the technology is going, although it will be several years yet before it’s ready for wide-spread use. Yeah, much better to have someone cut off your hand when they rob you. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collateral-effects-of-a-cashless-society/761828/32 "2016-08-06T14:49:42Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Yeah, but no one can rob you of your credit card receipts. I’ll bet if the ever is a trend toward stores going cashless, they will get insurance breaks. I’ve worked around cash all my life, no one has robbed me yet. I pay about $30 a month in insurance, and pretty much all of that is toward clients slipping and falling, or injuries to dogs in my care. I don’t know that any of it covers cash loss or injury due to robbery, but if it is, it’s gotta be less than a dollar. If going cashless saved me a dollar or so a month, it would not be worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collateral-effects-of-a-cashless-society/761828/33 "2016-08-06T15:07:04Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > > [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > > > How would it affect crime? The drug trade is strictly cash. When I got into real estate, I was amazed at the amounts and volume of cash that is used every day in the business. > > > > I believe organized crime is one thing that keeps cash going. > > That’s the biggest argument for going cashless. The Europeans are in the process of stopping printing of five-hundred Euro banknotes and the US is considering stopping the production of one-hundred-dollar bills, specifically because these large-value bills are used in illegal transactions. I understand the reasoning, but it’s a shame. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collateral-effects-of-a-cashless-society/761828/34 "2016-08-06T15:20:36Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > That’s the biggest argument for going cashless. Biggest argument for keeping cash is that not every transaction needs to have a tax on it. When your grandmother sends you $5, do you really think Visa should be getting fifty cents of that? If you lend your friend some money for bills, and he pays you back, you have to pay Visa for both transactions, so about a 6% loss there. Also, not all transactions that one may wish to keep private are illegal. If I go to the strip club, do I really have to have a permanent record of how much I spent, and who on? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collateral-effects-of-a-cashless-society/761828/35 "2016-08-06T15:22:53Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > A totally cashless society will only happen when we have an easy, portable payment system that _everyone_ can carry, and allows you to pay _and_ receive payment. And that’s everyone, including beggars. Some sort of smartphone or smart credit card, perhaps. > > We’re getting close to that point already, with credit card readers that attach to smartphones. Most sellers at farmers markets and art fairs seem to have them now, as well as food trucks. There are already phone apps that let you do that, both pay and receive payments. No need for a CC reader; each user links his app account to whatever card or bank account they want to. Also, “utility” apps where you can use the money in the app itself or take it out. As an example of the second, I recently ran a blablacar: I was going on a longish trip that’s not well covered by public transportation and offered spots in my car. I ended up having a full car the whole way, with people leaving and being replaced along the way. I could leave the money I got paid in my blablacar account and use it to pay for trips, or have it transferred to my bank. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collateral-effects-of-a-cashless-society/761828.md?page=1)