# College : "C" grade analogy from professor. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 6, 2011, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-c-grade-analogy-from-professor/584551 "2011-06-06T21:24:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![YaraMateo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/58f4c7/32.png) [@YaraMateo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YaraMateo)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-c-grade-analogy-from-professor/584551/81 "2011-06-10T23:00:52Z")
> [@Waenara](#): > > What you’re clearly not understanding it that it really matters _how_ the C grade is calculated before you judge if a student is fit to attend their school. > > At my university and in my program (four-year nursing degree), all of the courses have a section in the course syllabus which has a predetermined grading system. In each course I take, you are graded on assignments/exams (as a percent grade), and each assignment is weighted into a final course mark. That final percentage converts to a set letter grade, which converts to a grade point value. > > For example, in several of my courses, getting a final percent grade of 60-62% was a C-, which is 1.7 grade points. Similarly, a grade of 95-100% is a A+ (4.0). Each course in my program requires a C- to pass the course and use it as a prerequisite for the next semester’s courses. > > Now, I have a pretty good GPA (3.7), which means the percentage grade I got in most of my courses was 85-90%. > > Each course has it’s own grading system, so some courses are easier than others. A C- in one course requires a grade of 62%, while a C- in a harder course might require 57% and a C- in an easier course requires 67%. > > In my program, at my university, I would agree with you that I would think that anyone who is intelligent enough to get into the program (which is very competitive), should be able to maintain a B GPA (approx. 75-79%). > > HOWEVER, there are two universities in my city that offer a four-year RN degree program. My university uses the fixed percentage to GPA system. The other university’s nursing program grades all of their classes on a curve. (Although other faculties at that university use the curve, percentages, or a combination - it varies between faculties/departments). > > So at the other university, a fixed percentage of students will _definitely_ fail, and a fixed percentage will get a C, a B, or an A. > > **You say “a C tell me they don’t belong there.” Maybe at my university I could kind of agree with you, but if I were going to the other university I would not. If a fixed percentage of the students _will_ get a C or lower, you can’t just say that those students shouldn’t be there. If grades are on a curve and you lop off the bottom of the curve by kicking out all of the students who got a C, then the next semester the students who previously got B- and B marks will become the lowest part of the curve and will then get the Cs that are required to be given out by the curve**. I just don’t understand this logic. You’re not the only one using it. Someone has to be getting these As. What they doing? Sleeping with the professor? Black mailing them. Why are they able to get an A and you (all the yous who brought it up) not able to? I don’t really want to see what school I want to, but it was a university and I got As and made the dean’s list several times. I don’t feel I did anything someone who smart enough and willing to put the effort could not do. ---
**Author:** ![YaraMateo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/58f4c7/32.png) [@YaraMateo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YaraMateo)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-c-grade-analogy-from-professor/584551/82 "2011-06-10T23:10:03Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Many of my classmates at the second school were better than me at academics. I went from being an A student to being a B/B- student with some Cs. > > If those classmates had gone to MIT or CalTech, they would’ve been getting Cs instead of As. > > I didn’t want to be one of the 20%. The majority of my classmates were pre something. Most were pre-med but many were also pre-vet, pre-dental, pre-law, pre-pharmacy, pre-PhD. Evenso, I couldn’t have been one of the 20%. Even if I had worked my ass off, hard work only goes so far. There is innate talent that matters too because there is a g factor of general intelligence, and there were people who had more of it than me. One of the guys who did get mostly As who was a classmate of mine was a total stoner who would party and fuck around all week, then study for a few hours before the test and get an A. I didn’t have the innate talent to do that. I could do that at my first school, but not the second. If that guy who got As had gone to MIT, he would’ve gotten Cs with that kind of work ethic. But I never had any real desire to do grad work because I lack the self-discipline and do not think it would advance my career or personal life, so it didn’t matter. Some people are cut out to get amazing grades and go on and do great things. Some people get amazing grades and fail miserably in life. The same happens to some people with terrible grades. > > The C student from MIT would be an A student at a state school despite having the same grasp of the material. Either way, I never asked for anyone to find me impressive. But if a person uses undergraduate GPA as a metric to determine how successful a person is in life, or how competent they are at their job they are pretty out of touch and idealistic. GPA really doesn’t matter. We just seem to be going back to square one. Which is the C student says grades don’t matter. Just like to use a noncareer/nongrade example, the ugly person says looks don’t matter. The man with the little penis says size doesn’t matter. The big fat lady says big is beautiful. I’m not saying that those things are false. I’d take it to men a lot more if a super model said looks don’t matter, Ron Jeremy said size doesn’t matter, and skinny minie said big girls are phat. I don’t like cars. I think everyone knows that. If I said people don’t really NEED cars that wouldn’t be as effective as if some nascar winner said so. Proof is in the pudding. So to speak. I’m kind of done with talking circles. I felt (and still feel) people on here felt their Cs were fine and dandy, until people other wise said so. There seems to be two opinions here. One is it’s not done until it’s right. The other is it’s done when I feel like it’s done. That’s my opinion and I don’t really feel it’s going to change. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-c-grade-analogy-from-professor/584551/83 "2011-06-10T23:12:45Z")
> [@YaraMateo](#): > > I’m kind of done with talking circles. I felt (and still feel) people on here felt their Cs were fine and dandy, until people other wise said so. There seems to be two opinions here. One is it’s not done until it’s right. The other is it’s done when I feel like it’s done. That’s my opinion and I don’t really feel it’s going to change. I give it a C+ for effort or lack thereof. Bunch of slacker posters these days…what ever happened to giving a 110 percent? ---
**Author:** ![YaraMateo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/58f4c7/32.png) [@YaraMateo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YaraMateo)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-c-grade-analogy-from-professor/584551/84 "2011-06-10T23:24:12Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > I give it a C+ for effort or lack thereof. > > Bunch of slacker posters these days…what ever happened to giving a 110 percent? It doesn’t count towards my GPA. I guess I drank the kool aid and manage to SOMEHOW get As! :eek:😕:dubious: As someone who was on the dean’s list, I do think grades matter. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-c-grade-analogy-from-professor/584551/85 "2011-06-10T23:35:04Z")
> [@YaraMateo](#): > > We just seem to be going back to square one. Which is the C student says grades don’t matter. Just like to use a noncareer/nongrade example, the ugly person says looks don’t matter. The man with the little penis says size doesn’t matter. The big fat lady says big is beautiful. I’m not saying that those things are false. I’d take it to men a lot more if a super model said looks don’t matter, Ron Jeremy said size doesn’t matter, and skinny minie said big girls are phat. I don’t like cars. I think everyone knows that. If I said people don’t really NEED cars that wouldn’t be as effective as if some nascar winner said so. Proof is in the pudding. So to speak. > > I’m kind of done with talking circles. I felt (and still feel) people on here felt their Cs were fine and dandy, until people other wise said so. There seems to be two opinions here. One is it’s not done until it’s right. The other is it’s done when I feel like it’s done. That’s my opinion and I don’t really feel it’s going to change. Grade = D-. Your unusual use of cliches, sexual innuendo, and alternate ‘street’ spellings not to mention numerous spelling and grammar mistakes leave much to be desired in your work. I suggest you rewrite this post with style and substance more suitable to this forum and repost after diligent corrections. Here is a small sample of mistakes. 1. It is ‘supermodel’, not ‘super model’ unless you are really proud of your plastic airplane. 2. Nascar is a proper noun and should be treated as such starting with a capital ‘N’. 3. Where did Ron Jeremy say size doesn’t matter? Using an adult film star as an example is questionable on its own and you need to give relevant citations for such claims. You used two separate small penis references twice in one paragraph as a matter of fact. I am not sure what that is supposed to mean. 4. Your second sentence is not a complete sentence. I need to stop because the list of errors is going to be longer than your post. You get the idea. These basic English skills apply to almost all classes will knock you down way below a ‘B’ on their own for any college I studied in. Are you sure you are really about doing ‘A’ quality work no matter who your peers are or did you just come to believe that on your own? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-c-grade-analogy-from-professor/584551/86 "2011-06-10T23:45:55Z")
I’m trying to think of a better analogy than painting. Maybe pole vault. The bar is set at a certain height. Your task is to vault over without touching the bar. If Bob vaults over with two inches of clearance, and then Greg vaults over with fourteen inches of clearance. Greg’s performance is much more impressive than Bob’s, but that doesn’t mean that Bob didn’t clear the bar. If the bar is set a foot lower, and Ted and Dan and Steve clear it with three, five, and ten inches of clearance respectively, that doesn’t show that any of them are better vaulters than Bob. In an artificial environment, you can set the bar however high you like. If virtually everyone clears the bar, you can raise it to make it more challenging. This doesn’t apply to real-world tasks like “design a bridge that won’t collapse”. If an engineer who was in the middle of the pack in school is more than sufficiently skilled to design an excellent bridge that won’t collapse, it doesn’t matter how many students scored better than him. The bridge will still be an excellent bridge. ---
**Author:** ![Waenara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2011, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-c-grade-analogy-from-professor/584551/87 "2011-06-11T01:01:25Z")
> [@YaraMateo](#): > > I just don’t understand this logic. You’re not the only one using it. Someone has to be getting these As. What they doing? Sleeping with the professor? Black mailing them. Why are they able to get an A and you (all the yous who brought it up) not able to? I don’t really want to see what school I want to, but it was a university and I got As and made the dean’s list several times. _You still don’t get it._ Yes, someone will be getting the As. It could be due to their innate intelligence, or their willingness to study hard, or both. But someone _will_ be getting the Cs. You can’t judge that person as being unintelligent or lazy unless you have a little context - like whether their university marks on a curve, or how difficult it is to achieve higher than a C in a given course, how difficult the exams are, how smart the other classmates are, etc… Theoretically, you could have a university that only takes students who scored perfectly on the SAT, all have an IQ over 140, were all valedictorians of their high schools, and are all overachievers who love to study 60 hours per week. But, if that university grades on a curve, a certain percentage of those students will be getting Cs for the first time in their life. That doesn’t mean they don’t deserve to be in university, it just means the type of school they’re going to makes it insanely difficult to get good grades. > [@YaraMateo](#): > > I don’t feel I did anything someone who smart enough and willing to put the effort could not do. Well, maybe they could do it. Maybe they aren’t as innately intelligent, but they can work harder than you. Or maybe they’re smarter and can afford to slack off. But it matters what school you’re going to and what program you’re studying. Maybe you got by with being somewhat smart and doing a basic amount of work, but at a harder school or in a more competitive program, you would not have been so fortunate. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2011, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-c-grade-analogy-from-professor/584551/88 "2011-06-11T03:45:47Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > …and his policy was, “You have time to sleep when you die. No excuses.” Now _that_ is a ridiculous statement. Even minor sleep deprivation, only a few hours’ worth, can incur major losses in cognitive function and retention capabilities. By losing sleep to attain better grades, students are only hurting themselves in the long run, as they’re less likely to actually understand the material fully and/or long-term. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2011, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-c-grade-analogy-from-professor/584551/89 "2011-06-11T05:20:59Z")
You know what? C is for cookie and that’s good enough for me. ---
**Author:** ![cerberus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@cerberus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cerberus)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2011, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-c-grade-analogy-from-professor/584551/90 "2011-06-11T05:42:59Z")
Fixed grade scheme: score against a fixed rubric, no class quotas for grade frequencies. In this scheme, the meaning of a grade is relative performance per the fixed rubric. A @ outstanding performance B @ performance markedly above basic proficiency C @ basic proficiency D @ deficient performance F @ clear failure to demonstrate minimal standards Relative Grading: grade reflects performance as relative class rank. In ye olden tymes, the C was the basic proficiency standard and A/B reflected superior performance. Under grade inflation, A is a combination of the old A and the old B, and B is the old C. Arguably, the new C may spam the old low C and the old D. In some cases, the new D spans some of the old F. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-c-grade-analogy-from-professor/584551.md?page=4)