College Co-Eds Get Screwed

Great Debates
41

[QUOTE=Cervaise]
…if the practical effect of the policies is to oppress women and prevent them from pursuing their education, entering the workplace, etc., as equals.
[/QUOTE]

That’s the politically correct equality argument. There’s also the economic argument.

It seems obvious that birth control pays for itself. The costs to society of accidental pregnancies is enormous in ways too numerous to mention. The cheaper you make it, the fewer accidental pregnancies there will be among a large population. Given that as well as the fewer abortions argument, conservatives’ opposition to making contraceptives more affordable seem particularly irrational as well as hypocritical.

It’s their absolutism about sex (not women) that’s driving this. When are conservatives finally going to get over it about sex?

42

[QUOTE=Renob]
Now if the evil conservatives could only find a way to ban women from wearing shoes… :rolleyes:
[/QUOTE]

Where’s the suffering in that? No, no, it’s not a shoe ban conservatives endorse, but mandated high heels!

Once you think about it, it’s obvious – a misogynistic trifecta: (1) there’s the inherent pain, (2) the male-pleasing effect of tightening and shaping a woman’s buttocks, and (3) they make women want to get off their feet. So, not only do you get the suffering of (1), but (2) reinforces the objectification of women while yielding visual stimulation for males, and (3) results not only in encouraging the need to lie down, but also makes women more pliable. So, the hope is that (2) and (3) indirectly leads to the woman being barefoot and pregnant, after which the cycle repeats. It just doesn’t get more evil.

Conversely, this explains the affinity that liberals have for Birkenstocks. :smiley:

43

[QUOTE=Shayna]
No, American college students will have to pay outrageously over-inflated, obscene prices for birth control pills because the drug companies can get away with it here. The same birth control pills that any woman can buy over-the-counter in Mexico (where I used to live and buy them) for what’s now probably a couple of bucks a month (a little over 10 years ago I could buy a box with a 3-month supply for $3.00).

Yeah, yeah, foreign drugs bad and scary, can’t trust they’re the real thing, yadda, yadda. Nonsense. [url=“BBC ON THIS DAY | 4 | 1961: Birth control pill 'available to all'”] Same damn pills. Then; $33/month in the U.S., $1/month just over the border. It’s a government-sanctioned, masterful con game.
[/QUOTE]

Or maybe Americans are stuck footing the majority of the bill for drug research because of other nations’ price controls on prescription drugs.

44

How. Fucking. Timely.

45

[QUOTE=Washington Post]
In a 2001 article in The Washington Post, Orr applauded a Bush proposal to stop requiring all health insurance plans for federal employees to cover a broad range of birth control. “We’re quite pleased, because fertility is not a disease,” said Orr, then an official with the Family Research Council.
[/QUOTE]

The Family Fucking Research Council? Those are some evil mother fuckers. I wouldn’t let one of those assholes within 100 miles of a policy position.

46

[QUOTE=beergeek279]
Or maybe Americans are stuck footing the majority of the bill for drug research because of other nations’ price controls on prescription drugs.
[/QUOTE]

Actually, the only place in Latin America, AFAIK, where original pharmaceutical research is being done is Cuba – where the government is willing to subsidize it.

47

[QUOTE=Cervaise]
Not to speak for him, but I suspect he doesn’t really care what a given conservative actually thinks or believes, that it doesn’t really matter, if the practical effect of the policies is to oppress women and prevent them from pursuing their education, entering the workplace, etc., as equals. Which, of course, it
[/QUOTE]

This is ridiculous. Because I’d rather not subsidize a 22 year old’s birth control, now by definition I want all women pregnant barefoot and in the kitchen? Please. I’m always amazed at the amount of political power we want to give college students. They are brilliant, cutting edge thinkers, in tune to the world at large when they are protesting against a war somewhere. But they are helpless children (ohh the children) that need our care and help when they want to have sex. A fucking rubber cost 75 cents at the local 7-11. If you want to be treated like the adult that you are, act like one. We’d expect more from a 22 year old woman in the inner city for Christ sake.

48

Wait a second here. They get the pill and they’ll screw like weasels. They don’t get the pill and they’ll screw like weasels and get pregnant (gee, no self control here).

But no one is saying a freaking thing about the fact that they are having **unprotected sex **! To hell with the pill, give them rubbers. They’re being passed out in high schools, you mean to tell me they won’t pass the out at colleges? We can’t let the little darlings get knocked up but it’s OK if they get syphilis, gonorrhea or HIV?

Really, how difficult is it to keep a damn rubber in your wallet, purse, bedside table, glove compartment, etc.? I always had one with me through high school back in the early 80’s and that was before anyone ever heard of AIDS. You’d think that nowadays everyone would want to be shrinkwrapped before they hopped in the sack.

Screw the pharma companies. Support the latex industry!

49

Everything’s going to be okay, after all. I took an informal poll of local college guys, and most were planning on pulling out or having the girl on top, anyway. Ergo, no babies. Disaster averted. (Seriously, I do not want these people having babies.)

50

[QUOTE=Cat Fight]
Everything’s going to be okay, after all. I took an informal poll of local college guys, and most were planning on pulling out or having the girl on top, anyway. Ergo, no babies. Disaster averted. (Seriously, I do not want these people having babies.)
[/QUOTE]

Cat Fight, I’m guessing that if I started a thread saying that women in the 20 to 24 age group are just too stupid and immature to have responsible sex because they are incapable of planning for their own birth control, you’d have me in the pit in a about 2 minutes. Are you really saying that adult women are incapable of saying “no”, “go buy a rubber there buster” or “I’ll skip drinking this weekend because I need to buy some pills?” I went to college in a little town called Reality. Right next to You’ll Have to Hold Down a Job and Support Yourself Soon, across the river from You Are a Fucking Adult. If the only thing standing between the next generation of leaders in America and unplanned pregnancy is government intervention that we are all screwed. I think they deserve more credit than that.

51

[QUOTE=spifflog]
Cat Fight, I’m guessing that if I started a thread saying that women in the 20 to 24 age group are just too stupid and immature to have responsible sex because they are incapable of planning for their own birth control, you’d have me in the pit in a about 2 minutes. Are you really saying that adult women are incapable of saying “no”, “go buy a rubber there buster” or “I’ll skip drinking this weekend because I need to buy some pills?” I went to college in a little town called Reality. Right next to You’ll Have to Hold Down a Job and Support Yourself Soon, across the river from You Are a Fucking Adult. If the only thing standing between the next generation of leaders in America and unplanned pregnancy is government intervention that we are all screwed. I think they deserve more credit than that.
[/QUOTE]

Why do you hate women?

:smiley:

52

[QUOTE=erie774]
Wait a second here. They get the pill and they’ll screw like weasels. They don’t get the pill and they’ll screw like weasels and get pregnant (gee, no self control here).

But no one is saying a freaking thing about the fact that they are having **unprotected sex **! To hell with the pill, give them rubbers. They’re being passed out in high schools, you mean to tell me they won’t pass the out at colleges? We can’t let the little darlings get knocked up but it’s OK if they get syphilis, gonorrhea or HIV?

Really, how difficult is it to keep a damn rubber in your wallet, purse, bedside table, glove compartment, etc.? I always had one with me through high school back in the early 80’s and that was before anyone ever heard of AIDS. You’d think that nowadays everyone would want to be shrinkwrapped before they hopped in the sack.

Screw the pharma companies. Support the latex industry!
[/QUOTE]
Seriously. If I had a college-age daughter and discovered that she was using the BCP instead of condoms, I’d freak out. Back in college (this was 20 years ago), three of my close girlfriends contracted HPV, and one of them had already developed cervical cancer before we even graduated (she’s fine now, thank god).

Not only could using condoms save your life, quite literally, they are cheap, effective, and it’s easier to get a guy to chip in for the expense of condoms than the pill…as they should, as they get a benefit from it, too.

53

[QUOTE=spifflog]
Cat Fight, I’m guessing that if I started a thread saying that women in the 20 to 24 age group are just too stupid and immature to have responsible sex because they are incapable of planning for their own birth control, you’d have me in the pit in a about 2 minutes. Are you really saying that adult women are incapable of saying “no”, “go buy a rubber there buster” or “I’ll skip drinking this weekend because I need to buy some pills?” I went to college in a little town called Reality. Right next to You’ll Have to Hold Down a Job and Support Yourself Soon, across the river from You Are a Fucking Adult. If the only thing standing between the next generation of leaders in America and unplanned pregnancy is government intervention that we are all screwed. I think they deserve more credit than that.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah. Sounds like the soft bigotry of low expectations, to me.

  • cough *
54

[QUOTE=spifflog]
Cat Fight, I’m guessing that if I started a thread saying that women in the 20 to 24 age group are just too stupid and immature to have responsible sex because they are incapable of planning for their own birth control, you’d have me in the pit in a about 2 minutes.
[/QUOTE]

I believe there have been a few threads about incredibly retarded teenagers and 20-somethings continue to be about sex and their own reproductive systems. People can be incredibly stupid, especially when hormones and booze are involved, and especially since many are having their first sexual experiences in college.

Saying ‘no’ doesn’t always guarantee no sex, especially in college.

‘Okay, but just the tip’, ‘Okay, but pull out’ and ‘Okay, if you swear you shooting blanks’ are way more common (again, people are stupid.)

Or, 'I’ll eat Ramen again for dinner ‘cause I’m out $35 and a doctor’s visit.’ Not all college kids have money. Not all colleges have a nearby Planned Parenthood or free clinic.

55

[QUOTE=Sarahfeena]
Seriously. If I had a college-age daughter and discovered that she was using the BCP instead of condoms, I’d freak out. Back in college (this was 20 years ago), three of my close girlfriends contracted HPV, and one of them had already developed cervical cancer before we even graduated (she’s fine now, thank god).

Not only could using condoms save your life, quite literally, they are cheap, effective, and it’s easier to get a guy to chip in for the expense of condoms than the pill…as they should, as they get a benefit from it, too.
[/QUOTE]

I don’t think that forgoing oral contraceptives for condoms is a wise decision. Wisest of all, of course, would be a combined use of oral contraceptives, IUD, implant, or injection plus condoms.

Condoms provide significant protection against HIV, but less protection against HPV, and as far as we can tell, very little protection against chlamydia or gonhorrea (which are increasing in prevalence and resistance to antibiotic therapy).

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/354/25/2645

http://tinyurl.com/38y9k8

Limiting the number and avoiding concurrent sexual partners remains a wise course of action.

With typical use, condoms have about an 15% failure rate (15% of couples using condoms will have a pregnancy per year of sexual activity), so a sexually active female that engages in a now-typical five year course of study for an undergrad degree is very likely to be headed for an abortion or an unplanned pregnancy.

Considering the way that this thread has headed after being resurected, yeah, maybe we should just but OCP’s in candy-dishes in the dorms.

56

[QUOTE=threemae]
Condoms provide significant protection against HIV, but less protection against HPV, and as far as we can tell, very little protection against chlamydia or gonhorrea (which are increasing in prevalence and resistance to antibiotic therapy).

[/QUOTE]

Steiner, William & Cates, Willard, “Condoms and Sexually-Transmitted Infections,” New England Journal of Medicine 354:2642-2643 (June 22, 2006): http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/354/25/2642

It is fairly clear that the protection isn’t 100% for any kind of infection, and that the protection varies among diseases. Also diseases that spread through skin lesions can spread from areas not covered by condoms.

57

Right, like I said, more protection for HIV, less for HPV, even less for others.

From:

About an 80% risk reduction for heterosexual condom use for HIV transmission.

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/354/25/2645

About a 40-90% risk reduction (probably 70%) for HPV.

http://tinyurl.com/38y9k8

For the chlamydia and gonhorrea, the statistics aren’t quite as good, but they show apparently less protective effects there. Perhaps, “very little,” was too strong a phrase.

Basically, I wouldn’t forgo any type of regular check up or engage in any particular risk behavior just because you used a condom.

And I wouldn’t want my daughter not to have an OCP or similarly highly effective birth control option so that she’ll use condoms any more than I’d want her not to use a seatbelt so that she wouldn’t speed.

58

[QUOTE=neorxnawange]
If you paid taxes you did.

I just can’t get upset over something like this. I mean college students (or their parents) are paying somewhere between $500 and $2500 a month for school tuition alone and an extra $35 is gonna break them? The spending habits of college co-eds are ridiculous. OK, so its one less moose embroidered Abercrombie sweater a month, or 5 fewer half-calf double devon cream mocha caps a month for the privilege of not getting pregnant. Cry me a river.
[/QUOTE]

Not sure where bluebonnets grow, but you have obviously never had to either work your way through school, or been one of the many who are ineligable for any sort of financial aid to attend school. At least 2 of the 4 years I was working my way through school I could not have come up with an extra $35 a month to save my life unless I wanted to not eat. I did not have a phone, car, computer [ok, it was the early 80s] and rode a bicycle. I also worked a full time job, and did 16 hours a week manning the desk in the dorm in exchange for the partial menu plan [i got dinners only].

Not everybody in the US is made of money or qualifies for all the financial aid they need. Some of us still worked.

59

You folks can go on about how the stats for condoms are not 100% effective against HIV, HPV, gonorrhea, syphilis, etc but they are more effective at preventing disease than BCP which doesn’t protect from those diseases at all. Sure, the pill is effective against preventing pregnancy and a combo of drugs and rubbers is better than just one or the other but the only option that provides both kinds of protection is a condom. If a student is forced to choose between one and the other, I would prefer she chose a condom.

18 year olds are considered adults in the eyes of the law. They can vote, drive, get married or march off to war without parental consent. They should be responsible enough to make the decisions about where and when they have sex and what forms of birth control they use. If you want things to be given to them because they are not able to control their urges then obviously they are not adults and should not be given the other responsibilities. Take away their drivers licenses and I sure as hell don’t want these immature babies voting. You want to be treated like an adult then act like one and take care of yourself.

I paid for my own college, I worked my way through. I ate ramen or generic macaroni and cheese (made with water instead of milk and butter packets I stole from the dining hall). I also bought my own rubbers and, when I didn’t have any money to buy them and the girl was not on the pill, sometimes I went home with blue balls.

A 12 pack of Trojans costs about $10. That should last the average sorority girl at least one weekend. :smiley:

60

[QUOTE=erie774]
You folks can go on about how the stats for condoms are not 100% effective against HIV, HPV, gonorrhea, syphilis, etc but they are more effective at preventing disease than BCP which doesn’t protect from those diseases at all. Sure, the pill is effective against preventing pregnancy and a combo of drugs and rubbers is better than just one or the other but the only option that provides both kinds of protection is a condom. If a student is forced to choose between one and the other, I would prefer she chose a condom.
[/QUOTE]
This was my point, as well. My friends I mentioned who have HPV were all using the pill, and none were using condoms.

All of this I agree with, as well. There are many, many, many people who manage to get through college without getting pregnant, and it’s not by luck for the most part.