# college degrees **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 15, 2003, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-degrees/219057 "2003-12-15T03:41:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![swansont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5fc32e/32.png) [@swansont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swansont)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-degrees/219057/21 "2003-12-15T16:02:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Epimetheus \* > I was under the assumption that you can only hold one Ph.D. PharmD counts as a Ph.D for all intensive purposes. (Doctor of Pharmacy). Aside from having Ph.D equivillant education in more than one field, how do you convince the board to grant you mutiple Ph.Ds? If you do the required work, write and defend your thesis, you could get as many as time will permit. Considering that many (science) degrees take a while (physics PhD’s now average more than six years, IIRC, and it keeps going up), it’s a matter of practicality. Doctoral students are typically indentured servants. I know of few who would willingly subjugate themselves to that situation for additional degrees. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-degrees/219057/22 "2003-12-15T16:17:09Z")
Not quite right, **Epimethus**. First of all, the PharmD is, like the JD, a “First Professional” degree. For most _intents and purposes_ it is doctoral in the sense that a holder of it can hold tenure to **teach** (_“docere”_, impart the **doct** rine) in that field at the professional level. Heck, until the mid-1980s it wasn’t even considered a doctorate (and BTW many graduates of Law around the world to this day are NOT doctors, but “diplomates”, “licenciados” or whatever the title may be in your system). The “Ph.D.” (philosophical doctor), however is a _research/scholarship_ degree, it requires conducting significant scholarly study and research in the field (usually after a course of studying everything there is on the subject, almost as long as the BA itself) including _original_ research that can \* propel forward that field of knowledge\* and a demonstrated skill in defending and supporting your theories. Technically you CAN have as many Ph.D.'s as you could manage, but it would be an olympian intellectual feat to get more than one; what the institutions will not do is give you multiple degrees **in the same field** ; or, may have a policy about granting multiple PhDs to the same person _in the same institution_. But you could have someone have simultaneously a JD, an MD, a Ph.D in Chemistry and a Ph.D in Political Science from 4 different universities, atop her MBA, a BS in Electrical Engineering and a BA in English. As mentioned, some disciplines have both a “[Whatever].D.” as well as a “Ph.D. in [Whatever]” track for the doctoral-level studies in the field. Usually the first one is more hands-on. Often this has to do with a legacy from the profession’s history; or a need to produce people who can teach that specific subject and/or manage the researchers/teachers that exceeds the need for people actualy locked up in the lab doing research; or one-size-fits-all regulations that require that all professors have doctorates; or just plain old Rank Inflation. ---
**Author:** ![Yossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/9de0a6/32.png) [@Yossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yossarian)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-degrees/219057/23 "2003-12-15T16:27:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by curly chick \* > \*\*I reckon it would be very difficult to have earned PhDs in more than one discipline, not impossible, of course, but pretty difficult. > > In chemistry in this country (and in other laboratory disciplines here and in other countries, for all I know) you can be awarded a DSc after a large amount of research, attainment of an international reputation and global recognition by your peers in the international field. > > Who awards them, does anyone know? \*\* In the United Kingdom, Australia, Ireland, and some other nations, the D.Sc. is considered a “Higher Doctorate”. In the United States, it is considered equivalent to a Ph.D. (accodring to the NSF). You can hunt through [this NSF database](http://www.nsf.gov/sbe/srs/mapping/) to find more details for all of the various degrees offered in every nation. A google search of “higher doctorate” turns up the following example from the Open University (UK): > [@](#): > > The University awards two higher doctorates, the Doctor of Letters (DLitt) and the Doctor of Science (DSc), on the basis of published work. Candidates are required to show that s/he has made an original and substantial contribution to a major field of study over a significant period of time. The published work submitted for a higher doctorate must demonstrate that the candidate is a leading authority in her/his field, and has been involved in major innovations and new developments in that field. The Higher Doctorate Guidelines for Candidates (EX85) provide detailed information about eligibility and the requirements for higher doctorate candidates. ([http://www3.open.ac.uk/research-school/policy/directly-registered/examinations/EX86.doc](http://www3.open.ac.uk/research-school/policy/directly-registered/examinations/EX86.doc)) ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-degrees/219057/24 "2003-12-15T16:33:33Z")
Very informative **JRDelirious** , thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-degrees/219057/25 "2003-12-15T17:25:54Z")
> [@](#): > > You can have two BAs? That’s interesting. You can have as many degrees of any level that you have the time, funds, and ability to earn. There are hundreds of different kinds of degrees available in the United States at the associate, bachelor, master, and doctorate levels. Some doctorates are “professional” degrees and others are “scholarly” or “research” degrees. For example, a person studying law might follow this chain – B.A. --\> J.D. --\> LL.M. --\> S.J.D. – getting a master’s degree after his or her first doctorate degree. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-degrees/219057/26 "2003-12-15T18:35:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JRDelirious \* > \*\*Not quite right, **Epimethus**. > > First of all, the PharmD is, like the JD, a “First Professional” degree. For most _intents and purposes_ it is doctoral in the sense that a holder of it can hold tenure to **teach** (_“docere”_, impart the **doct** rine) in that field at the professional level. Heck, until the mid-1980s it wasn’t even considered a doctorate (and BTW many graduates of Law around the world to this day are NOT doctors, but “diplomates”, “licenciados” or whatever the title may be in your system). > > \*\* I beg to differ on the PharmD degree, **JR**. My father was graduated with his PharmD from the University of Southern California in 1967. His diploma says “Doctor of Pharmacy” and he has always used “Dr. Lastname” professionally. Robin ---
**Author:** ![Yossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/9de0a6/32.png) [@Yossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yossarian)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-degrees/219057/27 "2003-12-15T19:36:27Z")
The NSF classifies the JD, MD, and PharmD into the same category: “70. Advanced First Postsecondary Degrees and Awards”: > [@](#): > > …code 70 includes some degrees, diplomas, and certificates which are earned after an initial first degree but which are not considered graduate degrees. Examples include U.S. and first-professional degrees in law, medicine, and other fields; certain British and Commonwealth professional degrees in law, medicine, and theology; and diplomas and certificates earned in a year or less after a first degree that provide extra preparation (such as a qualification to teach) but are not full graduate degrees. [http://www.nsf.gov/sbe/srs/mapping/pdf/sect1.pdf](http://www.nsf.gov/sbe/srs/mapping/pdf/sect1.pdf) (scroll down to p. 31) And see here: [http://www.nsf.gov/sbe/srs/mapping/pdf/degu.pdf](http://www.nsf.gov/sbe/srs/mapping/pdf/degu.pdf) for a list of all degrees and into which category the NSF places each. ---
**Author:** ![sunfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@sunfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sunfish)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-degrees/219057/28 "2003-12-15T20:31:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ringo \* > \*\*You can have two BAs? That’s interesting. \*\* I have two, myself, in completely different fields - one is in communications, the other is in geology. Of course, as communications majors are typically required to take very few science courses, and not all of my previous liberal arts credits were transferrable to the second degree, it took me 3 years of full-time study to get the second BA. For some reason my grad school grants M. Phil. degrees as part of the path to a Ph.D., so in all I have 5 degrees - 2 B.A.'s, 1 M.A., 1 M.Phil., and 1 Ph.D. Occasionally when I get fed up with work I entertain the idea of going back to school yet again. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-degrees/219057/29 "2003-12-15T20:46:19Z")
Can you get additional BS’s or BA’s once you have officially graduated with one? For instance, as an electrical engineering student, one more semester of the right classes would have given me a CS degree in addition to the BSEE. But I wanted to finish up school so I did. Could I now go back and just take the additional courses, or would I have to get the next degree up, a masters? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-degrees/219057/30 "2003-12-15T21:18:56Z")
I really don’t know how it works after graduation, but most schools will let you double-major or do some sort of conjoined degree where you basically re-enroll and complete the remaining courses for the 2nd degree. That’s how UT-Dallas does it- I just graduated(12/13!) with my MBA, but I can still stay in school and get an MS in a couple of fields(Accounting, Accounting & Info Mgmt, Finance, MIS, IT Mgmt, etc…) for 18 more credit hours. ---
**Author:** ![sunfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@sunfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sunfish)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-degrees/219057/31 "2003-12-15T22:11:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SmackFu \* > \*\*Can you get additional BS’s or BA’s once you have officially graduated with one? > > For instance, as an electrical engineering student, one more semester of the right classes would have given me a CS degree in addition to the BSEE. But I wanted to finish up school so I did. Could I now go back and just take the additional courses, or would I have to get the next degree up, a masters? \*\* I would say this depends on the school. When I was looking to return to school for my second BA (2 years after my first), the university I graduated from told me that I would not be able to enroll in any classes in the college that had granted me my degree earlier. (In other words, retroactively double-majoring was not allowed.) Instead, I would have to enroll in their School for General Studies (for “non-traditional” students working on their degrees at night), and fulfill any particular core requirements for that program that I hadn’t already met. That wasn’t especially practical for several reasons, so I looked elsewhere. Other schools severely limited the number of credits I could transfer from my first BA in order to fulfill core requirements for the second, which would have meant as much as another 2 to 2.5 years taking classes unrelated to the geology major I wanted! In the end, I ended up going to the school that accepted the most transfer credits (95, toward a requirement of 140), sparing me all but a handful of liberal arts classes and letting me focus on the science I needed. In sum - do see if you can just slip back into your old school for the second degree. However, if they won’t let you, and if it means a lot to you to get that second degree, by all means shop around for a place that won’t make you take all the (unnecessary) stuff all over again. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-degrees/219057/32 "2003-12-15T22:20:07Z")
You might not be able to take multiple BA’s at the same institution. The University of California discourages “duplication of degrees” as they call it, though they do make exceptions. ---
**Author:** ![PharmBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/74df32/32.png) [@PharmBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PharmBoy)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2003, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-degrees/219057/33 "2003-12-16T01:13:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Epimetheus \* > \*\*I was under the assumption that you can only hold one Ph.D. PharmD counts as a Ph.D for all intensive purposes. (Doctor of Pharmacy). Aside from having Ph.D equivillant education in more than one field, how do you convince the board to grant you mutiple Ph.Ds? \*\* This is incorrect - I have both, and the major difference between a professional degree (such as an MD or Pharm.D.) and the Ph.D. is the dissertation. It was once explained to me this way: B.S. - shows that you are capable of learning M.S./M.A. -shows that you are capable of learning something important (also appies to JD,MD,Pharm.D,etc) Ph.D. - show that you are capable of contributing to learning/knoeldge in the field. ---
**Author:** ![Abbynormalguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Abbynormalguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abbynormalguy)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2003, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-degrees/219057/34 "2003-12-16T01:26:31Z")
There’s also the ThD for theologians ---
**Author:** ![OxyMoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9a140/32.png) [@OxyMoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OxyMoron)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2003, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-degrees/219057/35 "2003-12-16T01:32:04Z")
That’s not a bad description of the J.D., and it really applies to the LL.M. as well. LL.M.'s are almost invariably awarded in a specific field - taxation is very common. But it’s just coursework, really - no research. The equivalent to a Ph.D. in law is the S.J.D. (doctor of juridical science), which is exceedingly rare. I know at my law school graduation, there were two. They tend to be in extremely academic fields, such as international human rights law. I have also learned, courtesy of the **OxyBF** , that in architecture there is a B.Arch., an M.Arch, and even a D.Arch (v. rare). But only the B.Arch. (which can also be a B.A. or B.S. in architecture) is necessary to practice. He’s going back to school for an M.Arch., but not because it’s required, or even all that helpful in the short term. It’s mainly just to immerse himself in theory, perhaps make some connections, and improve his chances of getting a teaching position at some distant date. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2003, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-degrees/219057/36 "2003-12-16T01:43:24Z")
**MsRobyn** , for the 1967 time-frame, your father’s degree probably WAS doctoral, in the traditional sense (unless USC used the “new” system already at the time). But in much of the USA the course of study that qualified you to be in charge of an apothecary only became “doctoral” c. 1980, and pharmacists were still graduating sans “doctorate” into the mid-80s. ---
**Author:** ![aerodave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f08c70/32.png) [@aerodave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aerodave)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2003, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-degrees/219057/37 "2003-12-16T01:55:50Z")
My wife is about to return to school for a second BS. She’s had a BS in Marine Science for some time, but it doesn’t serve her well in our geographic area. So she’s going to get another BS in Computer Engineering starting this winter. It’s at a different institution, but it still won’t take her long at all. Two to two and a half years, since all of her general education and elective requirements are waived at this school for people who already hold a degree. She’ll just have to take engineering courses for 4 or 5 semesters. ---
**Author:** ![pasunejen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/58956e/32.png) [@pasunejen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pasunejen)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2003, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-degrees/219057/38 "2003-12-16T14:58:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GMRyujin \* > \*\*I have seen a few instances of a Psy.D. being used for a Doctor of Psychology. \*\* A PsyD and a PhD in Psychology are different degrees–I forget exactly what the difference is, but I think it may have something to do with PsyDs getting training specifically for clinical work and maybe not doing a dissertation (though if anyone knows better, please correct me). At any rate, a PsyD is may be looked down upon by the snootier of the academicians and it isn’t offered at as many institutions, though this is changing. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-degrees/219057/39 "2003-12-17T21:21:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ringo \* > \*\*You can have two BAs? That’s interesting. \*\* It’s possible with other degrees as well. I hold two LL.B. degrees - one in common law from one university, and another in civil law from another university. Since there was a fair amount of overlap in the degree requirements (e.g. - criminal law, admin law, constitutional law were all the same), it only took one year to complete the second LL.B. ---
**Author:** ![TheFifthYear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@TheFifthYear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFifthYear)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-degrees/219057/40 "2003-12-17T21:45:56Z")
Northern Piper, I’m curious…what country did you get your law degrees from? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-degrees/219057.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-degrees/219057.md?page=3)