# College football if O'Bannon wins the lawsuit **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 9, 2013, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-if-obannon-wins-the-lawsuit/665799 "2013-08-09T12:41:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2015, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-if-obannon-wins-the-lawsuit/665799/301 "2015-10-01T21:05:01Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, it’s not exactly the same. The Olympics weren’t tied to mostly-not-for-profit colleges and universities. But it’s still hard to distinguish the two. As one who has never experienced the emotional ties that are so unique to college sports, I have a tendency to overlook how they skew one’s perspective. Yet I believe two things: (1) that most of those fans with ties to the schools will continue their affiliation to the athletic teams if the kids are making a few shekels from outside sources and (2) that a growing percentage of television viewers are made up of fans of neither of the two teams on the field and will care even less about it. My disillusion with the football power schools remains such that I don’t think this is really about money except in the way that power equals money in college sports. This is about the maintenance of power first. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-if-obannon-wins-the-lawsuit/665799/302 "2015-10-20T18:41:57Z")
[VICE published an article](https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/the-ncaas-economic-exploitation-of-athletes-wont-be-solved-by-more-of-the-same) today that debunks [an article in _The New Yorker_ by Ekow N. Yankah that argued that paying athletes would be wrong](http://www.newyorker.com/news/sporting-scene/why-ncaa-athletes-shouldnt-be-paid). The VICE article is called [ **THE NCAA’S ECONOMIC EXPLOITATION OF ATHLETES WON’T BE SOLVED BY MORE OF THE SAME** > [@](#): > > Let’s be clear: colleges are commercial entities that sell education at market prices, and students choose the best mix of economic and non-economic benefits being offered. Except for the very rich, every student—athlete or not—makes his or her college selection with money in mind. Moreover, the college sports economic activities that Yankah decries in his article—$5 million coaching salaries and under-the-table payments to players that sour alumni—are not symptomatic of an excessive professionalization of the on-field workforce. Rather, they’re the pernicious, all-too-predictable side effects of an otherwise vibrant industry denying the talent its due. > [@](#): > > It shocks me how often I have to say this in a country where the dignity of an honest day’s worth is supposedly held in such high esteem, but money is not inherently evil. Money offered freely and fairly to encourage activities that we consider worthy is the lifeblood of the American economy. If a market for elite college athletes exists on an in-kind basis (with tuition, books, housing and like as the coin of the realm), then cash payments within that market are no more evil than Mr. Yankah’s paycheck. Or my own. Schools outbid each other all the time for able administrators; for top-shelf professors; for promising scholars. Have those institutions lost a connection with their own values? Hardly. ]([https://sports.vice.com/en\_us/article/the-ncaas-economic-exploitation-of-athletes-wont-be-solved-by-more-of-the-same](https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/the-ncaas-economic-exploitation-of-athletes-wont-be-solved-by-more-of-the-same)) Both articles are good reads, but IMO Mr. Yankah’s views are ridiculous and oppressive. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-if-obannon-wins-the-lawsuit/665799/303 "2015-10-20T19:20:05Z")
Jay Bilas will debate Oliver Luck tonight on the subject “College athletes should be allowed to be paid,” a precise wording that pleased Bilas (and me) very much. How many times have you read the comments section and some goober says that some schools “can’t afford to pay their football players! All the smaller sports will have to be cut!” Which is a complete misunderstanding of the issue at hand. The debate is being streamed at eight on something called [thefire.org](http://thefire.org). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-if-obannon-wins-the-lawsuit/665799/304 "2015-10-20T19:26:02Z")
Is that the issue at hand? I suggested that _boosters_ should be allowed to pay players early on in this thread, but as far as I know the lawsuits are not about that issue; those players seem to want to be paid directly. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Whatever happens, the current NCAA football model is already dead. Amateurism has been a joke for decades, and the five major conferences are on the verge of opting out for football purposes anyway. > > It’s not the NCAA’s fault; they didn’t set out to be the NFL’s feeder league. It just happened that way. IMHO, the only way to fix the system is to dump the antiquated player pay rules. Keep the scholarships and the tiny stipends, and let the boosters decide who they want to give their money to. > > If somebody wants to give Reggie Bush an Escalade, why the hell should the NCAA care? ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-if-obannon-wins-the-lawsuit/665799/305 "2015-10-20T20:19:34Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Is that the issue at hand? I suggested that _boosters_ should be allowed to pay players early on in this thread, but as far as I know the lawsuits are not about that issue; those players seem to want to be paid directly. The O’Bannon lawsuit was about using likenesses without compensation. The Kessler lawsuit is about ending the schools’ agreements to strictly limit athletes’ compensation. I’m not sure if there is any ongoing court battle where the athletes are directly trying to force the schools to pay them for their routine services, though the athletes would probably like this to happen. Basically, the schools are being asked to step back. They are being asked to defend their assumed power to enforce student earnings. They are being asked to allow an open market for the athletes’ services. If they don’t want to pay the third string tight end while the QB is making $100 thousand, that’s too bad for the TE. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-if-obannon-wins-the-lawsuit/665799/306 "2015-10-20T22:38:48Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > The O’Bannon lawsuit was about using likenesses without compensation. The Kessler lawsuit is about ending the schools’ agreements to strictly limit athletes’ compensation. I’m not sure if there is any ongoing court battle where the athletes are directly trying to force the schools to pay them for their routine services, though the athletes would probably like this to happen. Sacks v. NCAA; [here’s the GD thread I started about it](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=767020). ETA: Thanks for the heads-up on that discussion tonight. I’ll try and make time for it. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-if-obannon-wins-the-lawsuit/665799/307 "2015-10-21T00:49:56Z")
I hope that there will be a transcript of this debate available later, because Oliver Luck seems to be undercutting his (and the NCAA’s) position nearly every time he speaks; a transcript would allow his own words to be used against him without inaccurate paraphrasing. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-if-obannon-wins-the-lawsuit/665799/308 "2015-10-21T01:14:04Z")
That was an excellent debate and I’d like to thank you again **Red Wiggler** for bringing it to my attention. I did think, tho, that Mr. Bilas destroyed the opposing position. One of my favorite moments was when Mr. Luck said it was okay that coaches were being paid because they were adults, while the “student-athletes” should not be paid and Mr. Bilas interrupted him to point out that college students are also adults. Mr. Luck was never able to deflect or minimize the damage because his argument(s) are, IMO, stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-if-obannon-wins-the-lawsuit/665799/309 "2015-10-21T01:31:53Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > That was an excellent debate and I’d like to thank you again **Red Wiggler** for bringing it to my attention. > > I did think, tho, that Mr. Bilas destroyed the opposing position. One of my favorite moments was when Mr. Luck said it was okay that coaches were being paid because they were adults, while the “student-athletes” should not be paid and Mr. Bilas interrupted him to point out that college students are also adults. Mr. Luck was never able to deflect or minimize the damage because his argument(s) are, IMO, stupid. By all accounts a decent and intelligent man, Luck did a pretty skillful job IMO at presenting the schools’ illogical arguments. But his primary argument had the inevitable glaring flaw in it – that college football and basketball players, alone in the American landscape, are exploited by being compensated for their skills. Nobody tries to stop rich parents from sending their kids money for expenses. Nobody tries to stop students from slinging hash at the local diner or even from dancing around poles to earn book money. The federal government even reimburses schools up to 75% of students’ pay on the work study program and colleges bust ass to get internships for their undergrads. \*Because money isn’t exploitation. \* They pay Coach K $10 million a year and he’s a god in Durham. They put up a statue to that awful man in Tuscaloosa and pay him $7 million annually. And keep adding on to the stadiums because so many fans are turned off by the commercialism. “We’re special” is a pretty weird argument and I don’t think it’ll convince the courts when Jeffrey Kessler gets a couple of weeks to make his case. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-if-obannon-wins-the-lawsuit/665799/310 "2015-11-06T17:29:39Z")
While Ed O’Bannon’s lawyers work for an en banc review by 11 of the Ninth District’s judges, a former Weber State player has filed suit against the NCAA’s transfer restrictions, [specifically the requirement that a transfer be required to sit out a year before playing for a new team.](http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/jon-solomon/25364257/inside-college-sports-ex-football-player-sues-ncaa-over-transfer-rules) Overturning that restriction would severely limit the leverage a coach and school have over a recruit after he has accepted a football or basketball scholarship. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-if-obannon-wins-the-lawsuit/665799/311 "2015-11-07T18:45:27Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > While Ed O’Bannon’s lawyers work for an en banc review by 11 of the Ninth District’s judges, a former Weber State player has filed suit against the NCAA’s transfer restrictions, [specifically the requirement that a transfer be required to sit out a year before playing for a new team.](http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/jon-solomon/25364257/inside-college-sports-ex-football-player-sues-ncaa-over-transfer-rules) > > Overturning that restriction would severely limit the leverage a coach and school have over a recruit after he has accepted a football or basketball scholarship. The lawsuit claims that the NCAA claimed the rule exists so that a transfer can get used to the new school, but I always thought the rule was there to prevent athletes from using college sports as a minor league for the pros (which is why every sport except baseball, basketball (men’s and women’s), men’s ice hockey, and football allows an athlete one transfer without the sit-out, provided the university from which the athlete is leaving does not object). ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-if-obannon-wins-the-lawsuit/665799/312 "2016-10-03T14:25:06Z")
> [@](#): > > The Supreme Court said on Monday it will not consider the Ed O’Bannon antitrust case against the NCAA. Both sides had asked the justices to hear the case, which became a test about the legality of the NCAA’s limits on what top-level football and men’s basketball players can receive for playing college sports and for the use of their names, images and likenesses in live television broadcasts, rebroadcasts and video games… > > Instead, Monday’s decision leaves intact the 9th Circuit’s dual rulings that: > –The NCAA’s regulations are subject to antitrust scrutiny, and rules limiting football and men’s basketball players to receiving tuition, fees, room, board and books violate antitrust laws. > –While antitrust law requires that schools be allowed to provide these athletes with scholarships that cover all of their costs of attending college, including travel and personal incidentals, “it does not require more,” such as what it termed “cash sums untethered to educational expenses.” > **[Supreme Court will not consider the Ed O’Bannon antitrust case against NCAA](https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/2016/10/03/supreme-court-ed-obannon-ncaa-antitrust-case/91462090/)** > > Both sides hoped the case would be heard to settle use of names, images and likenesses. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-if-obannon-wins-the-lawsuit/665799/313 "2016-10-03T14:41:12Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > The lawsuit claims that the NCAA claimed the rule exists so that a transfer can get used to the new school, but I always thought the rule was there to prevent athletes from using college sports as a minor league for the pros (which is why every sport except baseball, basketball (men’s and women’s), men’s ice hockey, and football allows an athlete one transfer without the sit-out, provided the university from which the athlete is leaving does not object). AIUI football players may transfer without sitting out so long as the departure team doesn’t object. But they nearly always do. There was a palaver over Wisconsin’s coach adopting a hypocritical posture on this when he objected to a departing player playing for his new school immediately, but demanded a waiver from another school (Michigan?) for a player coming _to_ his team. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-if-obannon-wins-the-lawsuit/665799/314 "2016-10-03T16:04:45Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > AIUI football players may transfer without sitting out so long as the departure team doesn’t object. But they nearly always do. There was a palaver over Wisconsin’s coach adopting a hypocritical posture on this when he objected to a departing player playing for his new school immediately, but demanded a waiver from another school (Michigan?) for a player coming _to_ his team. The NCAA bylaws say that a waiver to the one-year sit-out rule cannot be given in the sports of FBS football or Division I basketball (both men’s and women’s), baseball, or men’s ice hockey, nor for FCS football if the athlete has only one year of eligibility left (if leaving FBS) or is transferring from an FCS school with football scholarships to one without them. There are exceptions; for example, the oft-quoted “Graduate School exception,” which apparently (I can’t find this exact wording in the bylaws) lets someone who graduates from a school transfer to another school if he wants a masters degree in something in which his current school does not offer one (although I think that means “the new school creates some major that the old school doesn’t have solely for purposes of the transfer” - technically, the athlete can transfer anyway if the old school announces that it is cutting the athlete’s scholarship), and one where someone can transfer from a school that has a postseason ban in that sport for the remainder of the athlete’s eligibility. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-if-obannon-wins-the-lawsuit/665799/315 "2016-10-04T19:12:22Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > [Supreme Court will not consider the Ed O’Bannon antitrust case against NCAA](http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/2016/10/03/supreme-court-ed-obannon-ncaa-antitrust-case/91462090/) I like how the NCAA is trying to spin it as “does not require more” and claim that as a victory. BTW, [I started a new thread to keep track of all NCAA legal suits](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=804658). I’ll have to try and collate these older threads there, so we can at least find them easily for reference. And no, I’m not saying people should stop posting to these old threads. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2017, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-if-obannon-wins-the-lawsuit/665799/316 "2017-01-01T01:29:10Z")
Last week the 129 FBS athletic directors formed a PAC. Does anyone doubt that there is but one end game in mind for this lobbying association? They will never find a more sympathetic congress than the current one for passing legislation that permanently restricts college athletes’ commercial rights. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-if-obannon-wins-the-lawsuit/665799/317 "2017-06-13T14:39:41Z")
**“Quit College Sports Or Quit YouTube”: NCAA Threatens UCF Kicker’s YouTube Channel** > [@](#): > > The NCAA reportedly nixed the YouTube channel of UCF’s kickoff specialist, Donald De La Haye, after discovering that some of De La Haye’s videos contained content of him displaying his day-to-day life as a UCF athlete. > > De La Haye’s channel has published 41 videos over the past year, piling up 54,000 subscribers and two million views in that time. His videos are nearly all related to his athletic career, though only a few directly address his status as UCF’s kicker; others are simply videos showing off his daily kicking regime and ability to boot a flatscreen TV from a ledge. As De La Haye stated in his latest video, entitled “Quit College Sports Or Quit YouTube,” because he was profiting from ads placed on his videos and channel homepage, the NCAA determined that he was profiting off his own likeness—the nerve!—and put its foot down. > > His video announcing the NCAA’s decision to intervene and kill any future videos in which they do not directly reap the profit of his labor was released on Saturday. > **[Deadspin | "Quit College Sports Or Quit YouTube": NCAA Threatens UCF Kicker's...](https://deadspin.com/quit-college-sports-or-quit-youtube-ncaa-threatens-ucf-1796033861/)** > > Deadspin | "Quit College Sports Or Quit YouTube": NCAA Threatens UCF Kicker's YouTube Channel ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-if-obannon-wins-the-lawsuit/665799/318 "2017-06-13T15:08:00Z")
I hope a shitload of lawyers are reading that story. Thanks for posting it here, **PastTense**. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-if-obannon-wins-the-lawsuit/665799/319 "2017-06-13T18:48:28Z")
The way the NCAA sees it, it’s not that he’s “profiting off his own likeness,” but that he’s “profiting off his football ability,” since that is what the videos are mainly about (and, presumably, why people are watching them) - in other words, he makes money from his football ability, which, in the NCAA’s eyes, makes him a “football professional.” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-if-obannon-wins-the-lawsuit/665799/320 "2017-06-13T20:12:20Z")
That’s not how the NCAA sees it. The NCAA’s bylaws prohibit an athlete from profiting from his own likeness whether or not the profits are related to his football ability. That’s why college athletes can’t get jobs at Target earning more than annual “incidental expenses,” even if they’re paid minimum wage and work just like everyone else. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-if-obannon-wins-the-lawsuit/665799.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-if-obannon-wins-the-lawsuit/665799.md?page=17)