# College football player hits a woman: The case of Joe Mixon **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 20, 2016, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255 "2016-12-20T19:55:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/81 "2016-12-22T03:45:06Z")
> [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](#): > > Here is the article I just read on the story. Honestly I wanted to be outraged by this and seeing the video I was but on reading this story I’m on his side. > > [http://newsok.com/article/5531466](http://newsok.com/article/5531466) > > She didn’t call him a slur, the man sitting with her did. He did not expect to be hit hard enough to be stunned and he didn’t just have to worry about a weak woman he is engaged in an argument with her but her ( who had escalated the scenario into violence ) and a grown ass man and he has no idea what that guy’s going to do. Maybe his football playing teammates could have broken things up but maybe he’d be jumped or worse before they could save him. > > I am not pro hitting someone weaker than you but when they gang up, even verbally, when the violence starts against you the calculus isn’t merely big man against small woman; it’s man against gang and you absolutely have the right to defend yourself in that case. > > Now, I know I’m going to burn in hell for this but > > I actually believe her that this happens but when someone is being homophobic against you, going into a place called Pickleman’s isn’t going to end well. I guess you kind of spent your cred on that last point, huh? Anyway: I will never believe that he felt threatened by that “gang” of a girl and a small possibly gay male. Specially with his buddies outside, and his “flight” which he is especially equipped to do, with all the training. You can’t respond to a person as if you are threatened by everyone they are eating with at the time. There is no “reasonable assumption of a melee” there. I still don’t know who started it. it might be some gay phobic comments and then the n word under the breath? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/82 "2016-12-22T03:45:12Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > I would not be sympathetic to her. Well I think that’s very reasonable. > [@drad\_dog](#): > > I don’t have a problem with women’s license to slap under some circumstances. They are often weaker and smaller. I don’t see it as a double standard. Do you also think it’s okay for poor people to rob rich people? I mean, what other types of “disadvantaged” people can take actions against “advantaged” people and suffer no consequences, in your opinion? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/83 "2016-12-22T03:47:37Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Wrong. > > [Deadspin | Woman Punched By Joe Mixon: "Almost Immediately, I Was Made To Feel Like It Was My Fault"](http://deadspin.com/woman-punched-by-joe-mixon-almost-immediately-i-was-1783820195) > > Underlined for emphasis. > And there is no license to slap, drad dog. Sorry. Don’t go all legalistic now. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/84 "2016-12-22T03:48:36Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > I don’t know. I saw a choice being made. I didn’t see that as what you do in that situation. He swatted her down. If he was threatened (for instance by a larger male) he would have looked more defensive, IMO. Yeah, you saw it – you didn’t experience it. Big difference. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/85 "2016-12-22T04:02:56Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > I guess you kind of spent your cred on that last point, huh? > > Anyway: I will never believe that he felt threatened by that “gang” of a girl and a small possibly gay male. Specially with his buddies outside, and his “flight” which he is especially equipped to do, with all the training. You can’t respond to a person as if you are threatened by everyone they are eating with at the time. There is no “reasonable assumption of a melee” there. > > I still don’t know who started it. it might be some gay phobic comments and then the n word under the breath? Pretty much yeah I said as much. I understand the humor impaired quite well thank you very much. Of course, it was the woman who called her companion gay so I’d imagine she would know far more than us about that and your disregarding him as a threat because he is “possibly gay” pretty much spends your cred as well. > [@](#): > > In the video, Freudiger told Mixon and the attorneys that Molitor’s version of events is that Mixon and some of his teammates begin harassing Molitor and her friend because the friend is gay, and they go into Pickleman’s to evade the situation. Had you been less knee jerk about my comment on the humor of the establishments name you might have caught that. And I’m sorry, if armed police can put a cap into a child playing with a bb gun in the park and it’s ok, then you can consider two grown adults a threat when one of them assaults you. But even if not, it’s not everyone they are eating with, it’s someone who escalated things verbally as you were trying to disengage from the situation. This isn’t an innocent bystander he was an instigator of the confrontation at that point. > [@](#): > > “I pretty much had a point in the store where we got into it, and I was like, you know, she being disrespectful, I felt like I should have left it alone,” Mixon said. \*\*“But then once the dude called me the (slur), I mean, it pretty much got my, you know, thoughts off of the whole situation. That’s when it just escalated.” \*\* If you read, the kid had no resonable expectation of a melee until, you know, one actually started. > [@](#): > > “I mean, even though she pushed me, I didn’t think she was going to hit me,” Mixon said, repeating what he said earlier in the interview. “I was so shocked, because she hit me so hard, it felt like really like a dude hit me. And then, like, my face just started ringing. And after that, like, it was just like a reaction.” ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/86 "2016-12-22T04:04:27Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Wrong. > > [Deadspin | Woman Punched By Joe Mixon: "Almost Immediately, I Was Made To Feel Like It Was My Fault"](http://deadspin.com/woman-punched-by-joe-mixon-almost-immediately-i-was-1783820195) > > Underlined for emphasis. No, you’re wrong and your cite is wrong. The punch did not break her bones. Her face colliding with the table broke her bones. I agree that her face was extremely unlikely to collide with the table without being punched, but the punch itself did not break any bones. And it is clear from the video that Mr. Mixon did not purposely direct Miss Molitor’s face into the table. Do you dispute this? Also, Miss Molitor was not knocked out; there was no loss of consciousness. Thus describing this as a “knockout punch” is mischaracterizing the punch, just as describing it as a “love tap” would be mischaracterizing it. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/87 "2016-12-22T04:05:45Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > I still don’t know who started it. it might be some gay phobic comments and then the n word under the breath? I’d missed this. That scenario is the exact scenario that I stated that I agreed happened. I gave her that she was telling the truth there. I don’t believe those two things happeneed at the same time though. The latter was after they’d entered Pickleman’s, the former before. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/88 "2016-12-22T04:07:34Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > No, you’re wrong and your cite is wrong. The punch did not break her bones. Her face colliding with the table broke her bones. I agree that her face was extremely unlikely to collide with the table without being punched, but the punch itself did not break any bones. And it is clear from the video that Mr. Mixon did not purposely direct Miss Molitor’s face into the table. Do you dispute this? > > Also, Miss Molitor was not knocked out; there was no loss of consciousness. Thus describing this as a “knockout punch” is mischaracterizing the punch, just as describing it as a “love tap” would be mischaracterizing it. I watch a lot of boxing and she was knocked out. It’s not always a literal thing. She appeared to be struggling to control her body. That’s knocked out. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/89 "2016-12-22T04:11:57Z")
I know that there is a great deal of variety of opinion within the feminist movement, but it always flabbergasts me how some feminists will essentially in one breath call for “gender equality” and doing away with traditional gender roles, yet in the next breath say that women should be allowed to strike men but not vice versa. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/90 "2016-12-22T04:12:32Z")
> [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](#): > > I watch a lot of boxing and she was knocked out. It’s not always a literal thing. She appeared to be struggling to control her body. That’s knocked out. I watched the same video(s) you did and I disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/91 "2016-12-22T04:15:59Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I watched the same video(s) you did and I disagree. I have bad eyesight so maybe you’re right. What do you call it from 1:10-1:20? That doesn’t look like someone who is in control of their body to me. If she was a boxer she’d have never made a 10 count. She was in no condition to. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/92 "2016-12-22T04:17:08Z")
> [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](#): > > Pretty much yeah I said as much. I understand the humor impaired quite well thank you very much. > > Of course, it was the woman who called her companion gay so I’d imagine she would know far more than us about that and your disregarding him as a threat because he is “possibly gay” pretty much spends your cred as well. > Had you been less knee jerk about my comment on the humor of the establishments name you might have caught that. > And I’m sorry, if armed police can put a cap into a child playing with a bb gun in the park and it’s ok, then you can consider two grown adults a threat when one of them assaults you. But even if not, it’s not everyone they are eating with, it’s someone who escalated things verbally as you were trying to disengage from the situation. This isn’t an innocent bystander he was an instigator of the confrontation at that point. > > If you read, the kid had no resonable expectation of a melee until, you know, one actually started. “Small and possibly gay” is how the gang outside seemed to perceive this person. That affects my cred? Oh well… It’s not clear exactly what you think I missed by knee jerk. But I kid, you know? I just don’t use emojis. It’s against my creed. So he knocked her out because he was afraid of the other guy? Maybe. He’s trained to knock people out. That’s his function in the world these days and maybe for his career. When you do it, and people are paying you to do it and training you to do it, you got to watch the context. I still can’t get a sense of the actual timeline from the quotes though. it matters to me what happened outside, and what was said before the “melee” ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/93 "2016-12-22T04:19:11Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > but today, we’re demanding that this man either stand there and get assaulted, or somehow modulate his self-defense so that there’s no chance of his attacker striking her head on a table. Or, you know, he could walk away. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/94 "2016-12-22T04:25:25Z")
You’re not going to like this but I don’t think there was any reasonable expectation by her that he would be hurt. What he did though could have been fatal. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/95 "2016-12-22T04:33:31Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > “Small and possibly gay” is how the gang outside seemed to perceive this person. That affects my cred? Oh well… Ah, I didn’t realize that you had insight on how the bystanders perceived this individual. I don’t and I doubt that if a gang wants to mix it up with you they put much thought into how weak or gay the person is. > [@](#): > > It’s not clear exactly what you think I missed by knee jerk. But I kid, you know? I just don’t use emojis. It’s against my creed. I didn’t read the last part which obviously keyed me in to your joking but my answer stands. I fully expected somebody who was humor impaired would take offence at my joke. It happened not to be you. Sorry. > [@](#): > > So he knocked her out because he was afraid of the other guy? This happens to me constantly on this board. I write something clearly and no one reads the words and just goes off on what they want me to have said. I honestly need help. If I’ve lost the ability to communicate I need to know how because this is approaching the absurd. > [@](#): > > I am not pro hitting someone weaker than you but when they gang up, even verbally, when the violence starts against you the calculus isn’t merely big man against small woman; it’s man against gang and you absolutely have the right to defend yourself in that case. I specifically mentioned a gang, as in more than one person and yet I get asked if I just meant the other guy. I don’t get it. How could I have communicated that gang is a group working together not one person or another person? Help me understand. It’ll save a lot of bandwidth. > [@](#): > > Maybe. > He’s trained to knock people out. That’s his function in the world these days and maybe for his career. When you do it, and people are paying you to do it and training you to do it, you got to watch the context. I’m confused. Are you talking about then football player or the possibly gay guy as being trained to knock out people? I haven’t heard that either of them are but I certainly could believe that either of them could be. I’d have no idea. > [@](#): > > I still can’t get a sense of the actual timeline from the quotes though. it matters to me what happened outside, and what was said before the “melee” Outside the football players were messing with the gay guy so he and the woman went inside in an attempt to deescalate. That didn’t happen. Inside, when the football player tried to deescalate the gay guy called him the racial slur. The football player shouted a taunt back ( by his own admission ) and the woman began the melee. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/96 "2016-12-22T04:37:55Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Maybe. > He’s trained to knock people out. That’s his function in the world these days and maybe for his career. When you do it, and people are paying you to do it and training you to do it, you got to watch the context. Huh? He’s a running back, not a boxer. > [@even\_sven](#): > > Or, you know, he could walk away. That’s basically “stand there and be assaulted”, since she’d be battering him the whole time. He could run away, but humans aren’t really hardwired to do that, which is why zero states out of 50 have a duty to retreat before you can defend yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/97 "2016-12-22T04:40:46Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Or, you know, he could walk away. So that the scorecard is Assailant 1, Mixon 0? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/98 "2016-12-22T04:42:32Z")
> [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](#): > > Ah, I didn’t realize that you had insight on how the bystanders perceived this individual. I don’t and I doubt that if a gang wants to mix it up with you they put much thought into how weak or gay the person is. > > I didn’t read the last part which obviously keyed me in to your joking but my answer stands. I fully expected somebody who was humor impaired would take offence at my joke. It happened not to be you. Sorry. > > This happens to me constantly on this board. I write something clearly and no one reads the words and just goes off on what they want me to have said. I honestly need help. If I’ve lost the ability to communicate I need to know how because this is approaching the absurd. > > I specifically mentioned a gang, as in more than one person and yet I get asked if I just meant the other guy. I don’t get it. How could I have communicated that gang is a group working together not one person or another person? Help me understand. It’ll save a lot of bandwidth. > > I’m confused. Are you talking about then football player or the possibly gay guy as being trained to knock out people? I haven’t heard that either of them are but I certainly could believe that either of them could be. I’d have no idea. > > Outside the football players were messing with the gay guy so he and the woman went inside in an attempt to deescalate. That didn’t happen. Inside, when the football player tried to deescalate the gay guy called him the racial slur. The football player shouted a taunt back ( by his own admission ) and the woman began the melee. He is a small dude. I thought from accounts that they were calling him a “fag.” Is this wrong? You don’t know who there was trained to knock people out? Maybe the person who did that would be a good guess? Anyway: Am I to believe he went in to deescalate? ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/99 "2016-12-22T04:43:29Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > You’re not going to like this but I don’t think there was any reasonable expectation by her that he would be hurt. What he did though could have been fatal. I’m pretty sure she didn’t either but her ability to think their way through the situation they were in were as poor as his. Neither was able to see the others side. Emotions will do that to you. What we do know was that his first reaction inside the deli was to remove himself from the situation and hers was to attack. She should have kept with her original thought to deescalate but that ship had apparently sailed. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/100 "2016-12-22T04:44:32Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Huh? He’s a running back, not a boxer. > > That’s basically “stand there and be assaulted”, since she’d be battering him the whole time. He could run away, but humans aren’t really hardwired to do that, which is why zero states out of 50 have a duty to retreat before you can defend yourself. The best offense is a good defense? They all hit hard. Running backs spend the game tiptoeing between all those big massive brutes? It’s a contact sport. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255.md?page=6)