# College football player hits a woman: The case of Joe Mixon **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 20, 2016, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255 "2016-12-20T19:55:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/121 "2016-12-22T05:35:42Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > This is a good point? Compared to running backs being trained to strike defenders it’s absolutely a more valid point. That’s an incredibly low bar though. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/122 "2016-12-22T05:36:15Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > OK here’s where the rubber hits the road or something. > > So he went into the deli to make things all OK? > > Do you think he was smoothing things over, and backing off, and she just went off on him? Hard to feature that. I think he must have made a really offensive comment to provoke that response. Maybe that’s just my perception. > > Or did he go in to poke back and it started something? I have no idea. However: a) There’s nothing anyone can say that justifies assaulting them; and b) Unlike both parties’ recollections of what happened, the video is objective and accurate. And in the video, he turns to leave and she attacks him. You’re free to assume that Mixon must have somehow been at fault (he’s a young black man wearing jewelry, therefore he must be disrespectful and dangerous, right?). All I know - all I need to know - is that he was leaving, and she attacked him. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/123 "2016-12-22T05:40:37Z")
> [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](#): > > I’m having trouble finding those youtube videos which is odd since it happens all the time. Please link me to some examples of running backs ko’ing defenders and I’ll concede the point. Stiff arms don’t count. No one gets their face fractured by a stiff arm which isn’t even legal to a helmet. Put up or shut up. > > Stiff arm > > So you’re saying that what you saw was him extending is arm, locking his elbow and outstretching the palm and then despite his ninja football training he missed the shoulder and or chest and crushing her face instead? Come on man. Give it up. You lost this one or like I said, show me one legal video of a running back hitting a guy in the face and not get penalized for it. Quck note, football players don’t practice how to perform a maneuver that will cost his team yardage. Just doesn’t happen. You need to see a film of the same move on the part of a RB in a game to believe he was capable of using what amounts to deadly force with his body? I’m not seeing the point of the argument. So it wasn’t a legal football move? Get past the pedantry. The training in football gives one an advantage in knocking out smaller people. I think it’s right there on the film. You didn’t address this: OK man. I think we’re on the same page. She had no reasonable expectation of causing him harm. He had reasonable expectation that what he did could be fatal. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/124 "2016-12-22T05:40:49Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > This is a good point? You argued that running backs are trained to knock people out, because you’ve seen them use their arms. I’m merely highlighting the absurdity of that claim. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/125 "2016-12-22T05:52:22Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > You need to see a film of the same move on the part of a RB in a game to believe he was capable of using what amounts to deadly force with his body? Nope, as you should know you claimed he was using a football maneuver on her that he was trained to do. That’s patently bullshit. I believe any person is capable of using what amounts to deadly force with their body. I recall a case where a high school fight between two girls had one of them punching and killing the other. That’s right a high school girl is capable of killing while striking someone to the head. Training not required. > **[3 charged in death of Del. girl after high school fight](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/3-charged-in-death-of-delaware-girl-amy-joyner-francis-after-high-school-bathroom-fight/)** > > Officials also revealed Monday that Amy Joyner-Francis, 16, died from a "cardiac incident" related to a pre-existing heart condition > [@](#): > > I’m not seeing the point of the argument. So it wasn’t a legal football move? Get past the pedantry. The training in football gives one an advantage in knocking out smaller people. I think it’s right there on the film. SHRUG You’re the one saying that it was.Now, it’s not but still… football player. Got it. There is no football training that even allows a strike to the head. None, zero, zip. Prove otherwise please. > [@](#): > > You didn’t address this: OK man. I think we’re on the same page. She had no reasonable expectation of causing him harm. He had reasonable expectation that what he did could be fatal. Right? Now, you’re just screwing with me. I addressed that directly and I refuse to copy and paste it for you again. Hint, read the thread. It’s in there. It’s the only point I addressed in that post fer christs sake. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/126 "2016-12-22T06:00:30Z")
> [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](#): > > I’m having trouble finding those youtube videos which is odd since it happens all the time. Please link me to some examples of running backs ko’ing defenders and I’ll concede the point. Stiff arms don’t count. No one gets their face fractured by a stiff arm which isn’t even legal to a helmet. Put up or shut up. I’ve seen it before. [Here, check this out.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKl9WKaYVRw&t=18s) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/127 "2016-12-22T06:02:44Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I’ve seen it before. [Here, check this out.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKl9WKaYVRw&t=18s) 🙂 Woulda gotten bonus points but it wasn’t the running back doing the striking. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/128 "2016-12-22T06:07:24Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I’ve seen it before. [Here, check this out.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKl9WKaYVRw&t=18s) 🙂 I did see something close actually happen but I can’t find a video. It was a long time ago. Billy Sims was the Lions running back. He had broken a run and only one dude stood between him and the goal line. The guy was crouching. Sims went up, planted his cleats into the guys face mask and used that to vault himself into the end zone. A penalty ensued but it was fun to watch. No one had their face fractured though. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/129 "2016-12-22T06:11:35Z")
> [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](#): > > Woulda gotten bonus points but it wasn’t the running back doing the striking. 🙂 Maybe running backs [really are combatants.](https://youtu.be/VVrsGHs2MCk?t=203) ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/130 "2016-12-22T06:13:33Z")
> [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](#): > > I did see something close actually happen but I can’t find a video. It was a long time ago. Billy Sims was the Lions running back. He had broken a run and only one dude stood between him and the goal line. The guy was crouching. Sims went up, planted his cleats into the guys face mask and used that to vault himself into the end zone. A penalty ensued but it was fun to watch. No one had their face fractured though. Ok, either I was misremebering the exact scenario but here’s another BIlly Sims video. [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/y0O7973Ew8A/hqdefault.jpg "November 13, 1983 - Detroit Lions at Houston Oilers (Billy Sims Karate Kick)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0O7973Ew8A) ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/131 "2016-12-22T06:19:36Z")
[quote=“Disgruntled\_Penguin, post:130, topic:775255”] Ok, either I was misremebering the exact scenario but here’s another BIlly Sims video. [/QUOTE] Damn, my meory was flawed. This kick is even mentioned in his wiki page and they say Chris Berman nicknamed him Kung Fu Billy Sims. I guess I’ll have to take solace that after 33 years at least I remembered it was Sims and what he did. Woulda been great if it was for a TD though. Probably why I remembered it that way. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/132 "2016-12-22T06:24:23Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > You need to see a film of the same move on the part of a RB in a game to believe he was capable of using what amounts to deadly force with his body? Is this anything like “my hands are licensed lethal weapons”? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/133 "2016-12-22T10:32:15Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Anyway: I will never believe that he felt threatened by that “gang” of a girl and a small possibly gay male. I am intrigued by this. Would the threat level have been greater if the “small male” was definitely straight? Or was it the ambiguity over his sexual orientation that diminished the likelihood of him being dangerous? Which is more of a threat: a large gay male or a small straight one? And what about bisexuals - more or less dangerous? I need to know in case I’m ever in an altercation with someone and have to determine how concerned I should be. > [@](#): > > I still don’t know who started it. it might be some gay phobic comments and then the n word under the breath? “I don’t know what happened so I’m going to idly speculate without further evidence” is always a good debating point. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/134 "2016-12-22T11:32:02Z")
Apparently a lot of Dopers think a reasonable reaction from a man getting slapped by a woman is to punch her in the face. That’s pretty deplorable. A more reasonable reaction, which is what usually happens, is the guy shoves her away and leaves, or puts his arm up to block her, or if she’s really in his face he can just grab her arms or hold her. Less seriously, that video brought to mind the Bill Burr bit about how you can’t ever hit a woman because they have no body coordination and fall over like toddlers. She could’ve been paralyzed or killed. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/135 "2016-12-22T11:59:13Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Apparently a lot of Dopers think a reasonable reaction from a man getting slapped by a woman is to punch her in the face. That’s pretty deplorable. A more reasonable reaction, which is what usually happens, is the guy shoves her away and leaves, or puts his arm up to block her, or if she’s really in his face he can just grab her arms or hold her. How’s the view from atop that high horse? What do you mean by “reasonable”? It is _understandable_ that someone’s reaction to being hit in the face is to immediately hit back. Most people in that circumstance don’t stop to conduct a detailed risk-benefit analysis, especially not college freshmen and \*especially \*especially not one who attempted to leave and continued to be attacked. Saying that is not the same thing as saying that punching people in the face, even in self-defense, is objectively the correct course of action here; the point is merely that the circumstances of the assault contain a certain amount of mitigation in considering the appropriateness of his actions. Or are you “one of those Dopers” who thinks it’s “reasonable” for women to be able to assault men whenever they like with impunity? And what would you say if he’d attempted to restrain her and she’d still gotten injured? Would you be here complaining that of course he shouldn’t have done that, he should have done something else? Hindsight does make things so much easier… ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/136 "2016-12-22T12:21:54Z")
It all happens pretty quickly, but it looks like she was going for his face when he hit her. He didn’t intend for her to hit the table. I’m more on his side of things here. She started it and he was reacting to her. Plus he was only eighteen. Expelling him would have been a gross injustice. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/137 "2016-12-22T13:13:35Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > OK man. I think we’re on the same page. She had no reasonable expectation of causing him harm. He had reasonable expectation that what he did could be fatal. Right? The expectation of causing harm is immaterial. She was engaged in a verbal confrontation and then initiated a physical confrontation. He reacted to the escalation of the encounter. He has no legal obligation to walk away from a verbal altercation. He has a legal right to neutralize physical hostility until it becomes clear that the threat has been neutralized – that’s textbook self defense in the eyes of the law. And the law says nothing about size of the individuals involved. ---
**Author:** ![ZonexandScout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zonexandscout/32/544_2.png) [@ZonexandScout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZonexandScout)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/138 "2016-12-22T13:57:10Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Apparently a lot of Dopers think a reasonable reaction from a man getting slapped by a woman is to punch her in the face. That’s pretty deplorable. A more reasonable reaction, which is what usually happens, is the guy shoves her away and leaves, or puts his arm up to block her, or if she’s really in his face he can just grab her arms or hold her. [Edited for length] I. can’t. believe. I. read. this. I’m a fairly big guy (225 lbs, 6’2") and I played football. I’ve had my share of dust-ups. But even I know, and was taught from the time I was a child, that one should NEVER aggressively put one’s hands on another person. That’s the RULE. That’s what separates a drunken argument at a bar from a bar fight. Don’t shove someone. Don’t slap someone. Don’t punch someone. Ever. Once you do, you have lost all right to sympathy and (probably) a legal defense. Furthermore, if you find yourself on the receiving end, you need to end the situation. Immediately. Either walk away or stop the assault (which is what it is) quickly and finally. Long brawls and pushing matches don’t end well. I’m afraid that Molito has seen too many movies and rom-coms where a shove and a slap are somewhere in-between verbal insults and an actual physical fight. That magic realm of “not quite one and not quite the other” doesn’t exist. Lay your hands on another person and you take the consequences. ---
**Author:** ![ZonexandScout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zonexandscout/32/544_2.png) [@ZonexandScout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZonexandScout)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/139 "2016-12-22T14:11:56Z")
> [@ZonexandScout](#): > > [Edited for length] > > I. can’t. believe. I. read. this. > > I’m a fairly big guy (225 lbs, 6’2") and I played football. I’ve had my share of dust-ups. But even I know, and was taught from the time I was a child, that one should NEVER aggressively put one’s hands on another person. That’s the RULE. That’s what separates a drunken argument at a bar from a bar fight. Don’t shove someone. Don’t slap someone. Don’t punch someone. Ever. > > Once you do, you have lost all right to sympathy and (probably) a legal defense. > > Furthermore, if you find yourself on the receiving end, you need to end the situation. Immediately. Either walk away or stop the assault (which is what it is) quickly and finally. Long brawls and pushing matches don’t end well. > > I’m afraid that Molito has seen too many movies and rom-coms where a shove and a slap are somewhere in-between verbal insults and an actual physical fight. That magic realm of “not quite one and not quite the other” doesn’t exist. Lay your hands on another person and you take the consequences. _Molitor_ Missed the edit window. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/140 "2016-12-22T14:36:50Z")
If we’re talking about potential harm from the attacks, her first attack (the one that he attempted to ignore and just walk away from) was a shove. That could have knocked him off balance, and caused him to fall into a table. Which could have caused exactly as much damage as she took by, y’know, falling into a table. Heck, it could even have resulted in his death, if he was really unlucky. He would have been entirely within his rights to start fighting back after that first assault, but he instead chose to walk away. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255.md?page=8)