# College football player hits a woman: The case of Joe Mixon **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 20, 2016, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255 "2016-12-20T19:55:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/141 "2016-12-22T15:04:15Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > that video brought to mind the Bill Burr bit about how **you can’t ever hit a woman because they have no body coordination and fall over like toddlers.** She could’ve been paralyzed or killed. I am not making assumptions about you or your views, but this comment reminds me of how some people who argue for the side of women inadvertently end up sounding like misogynists - saying things like “Women are weak and frail.” ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/142 "2016-12-22T15:08:44Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Apparently a lot of Dopers think a reasonable reaction from a man getting slapped by a woman is to punch her in the face. That’s pretty deplorable. FTR, I think it’s reasonable. Maybe I should have voted for Trump. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/143 "2016-12-22T21:28:30Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > They are trained to make their way down the field, against people trying to knock them out. They are combatants. > > what I see on the tape is not boxing or a punch, anyway. It looks like a football move. If by ‘football move’ you mean boxing. Yep. If by ‘football move’ you mean ‘football move’ then no. It is clearly a punch. A short punch but a punch. > [@drad\_dog](#): > > It’s completely economical and efficient in knocking her out, and I have a hard time separating that move from his training, if that’s what you’re doing. They don’t train football players to punch. Slee ---
**Author:** ![Calico\_Jack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calico_jack/32/7320_2.png) [@Calico\_Jack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calico_Jack)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/144 "2016-12-22T21:37:51Z")
She got what she deserved for being a racist. It happened in Oklahoma so 10 buck says she was a racist Trump supporter, call it karma. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/145 "2016-12-22T21:45:08Z")
> [@Calico\_Jack](#): > > She got what she deserved for being a racist. It happened in Oklahoma so 10 buck says she was a racist Trump supporter, call it karma. And since it happenede in Oklahoma 10 bucks says he’s a homophobic Trump supporter as well. Can’t we all decry Trumper on Trumper crime? ---
**Author:** ![Calico\_Jack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calico_jack/32/7320_2.png) [@Calico\_Jack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calico_Jack)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/146 "2016-12-22T21:45:09Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I am not making assumptions about you or your views, but this comment reminds me of how some people who argue for the side of women inadvertently end up sounding like misogynists - saying things like “Women are weak and frail.” Or in the progressive case, they just replace “weak and frail” with “underprivileged and oppressed”, but otherwise act pretty much identically to the patronizing hyper-chivalrous guys who women find pitiful. Almost like they think women are so weak and defenseless they need men to defend them from the insinuation that they are just that, lol ---
**Author:** ![Calico\_Jack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calico_jack/32/7320_2.png) [@Calico\_Jack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calico_Jack)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/147 "2016-12-22T21:48:50Z")
> [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](#): > > And since it happenede in Oklahoma 10 bucks says he’s a homophobic Trump supporter as well. Can’t we all decry Trumper on Trumper crime? lol, the comment was sarcasm. But anyway on a serious note, I’m not an expert on self-defense, but generally you’re only allowed to use force enough to end or escape the assault, not to ‘punish’ the attacker, so responding to a slap with a cold-cock would’ve almost definitely been excessive force regardless of gender. (Anyone saying otherwise obviously has no clue about state self-defense laws, and anyone who follows their internet tough guy advice may wind up with a felony charge). And while she may have thrown the first punch, again I’m not an expert on the laws, but in some cases if a person walks up in a threatening manner which gives one legitimate belief that they will be attacked, it may be legal to throw a punch, so whether or not she was justified in the original hit, I’m not sure. And whether or not she was an idiot is still irrelevant to how this will play out legally. In fact I think the gender of the individuals shouldn’t be a factor here, because as far as I’m aware of there aren’t any state laws saying “never hit a woman no matter what”; the laws apply equally regardless of sex. Sure, maybe men might be charged more often and more harshly, but like it or not it’s a fact of life because generally women are weaker pound-for-pound than men of the same height and weight, and there are far more cases of domestic violence resulting in serious injury from men against women, than vice versa. So good luck eliminating these inherent social biases. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/148 "2016-12-22T21:49:20Z")
> [@Calico\_Jack](#): > > Or in the progressive case, they just replace “weak and frail” with “underprivileged and oppressed”, but otherwise act pretty much identically to the patronizing hyper-chivalrous guys who women find pitiful. > > Almost like they think women are so weak and defenseless they need men to defend them from the insinuation that they are just that, lol Funny, I consider myself a progressive and that clearly isn’t my belief. You need to sharpen your stereotyping skills I’m afraid. They’re woefully out of whack I’m afraid. ---
**Author:** ![Calico\_Jack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calico_jack/32/7320_2.png) [@Calico\_Jack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calico_Jack)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/149 "2016-12-22T22:13:27Z")
> [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](#): > > Funny, I consider myself a progressive and that clearly isn’t my belief. You need to sharpen your stereotyping skills I’m afraid. They’re woefully out of whack I’m afraid. One can hold beliefs without being consciously aware of them. And I didn’t say that all progressives have this belief, but fact is many of them I’ve seen do act in a patronizing hyper-chivalrous manner, just more or less replacing the notion of women being “weaker” in strength with the notion of them being “socially weaker” due to patriarchy or whatnot. Hence it comes across just as bad as “hypermasculine chivarly” since it shows no depth and nuance in understanding “women” as individuals, but merely viewing them as some idealized “one-size-fits-all” stereotype like a princess in a Disney film. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/150 "2016-12-22T22:25:09Z")
> [@Calico\_Jack](#): > > One can hold beliefs without being consciously aware of them. > > And I didn’t say that all progressives have this belief, but fact is many of them I’ve seen do act in a patronizing hyper-chivalrous manner, just more or less replacing the notion of women being “weaker” in strength with the notion of them being “socially weaker” due to patriarchy or whatnot. > > Hence it comes across just as bad as “hypermasculine chivarly” since it shows no depth and nuance in understanding “women” as individuals, but merely viewing them as some idealized “one-size-fits-all” stereotype like a princess in a Disney film. So you’re saying that I may hold this belief without being consciously aware of it. Shall I project beliefs on you that you don’t hold and just chalk it up to your not being consciously aware of them? That’s a really slippery slope there. Sure you want to go down that path? I’d suggest that the rest of your post shows no depth or nuance in understanding “progressives” as individuals but merely viewing them as some “one-size-fits-all” stereotype as well so really what’s your point? I don’t think that either stereotype is particularly useful do you? ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/151 "2016-12-22T23:03:10Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > OK here’s where the rubber hits the road or something. > > So he went into the deli to make things all OK? Doesn’t matter why he went in. > [@drad\_dog](#): > > Do you think he was smoothing things over, and backing off, and she just went off on him? Hard to feature that. I think he must have made a really offensive comment to provoke that response. Maybe that’s just my perception. Your perception doesn’t matter. What he said, unless it was ‘I am going to kill you now’ or something equivalent, doesn’t matter. She pushed and then hit him first. That is what matters. > [@drad\_dog](#): > > Or did he go in to poke back and it started something? Once again, it doesn’t matter. You cannot initiate violence. What is so hard to understand about that? Slee ---
**Author:** ![Calico\_Jack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calico_jack/32/7320_2.png) [@Calico\_Jack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calico_Jack)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/152 "2016-12-22T23:28:54Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > Doesn’t matter why he went in. > > Your perception doesn’t matter. What he said, unless it was ‘I am going to kill you now’ or something equivalent, doesn’t matter. She pushed and then hit him first. That is what matters. > > Once again, it doesn’t matter. > > You cannot initiate violence. What is so hard to understand about that? > > Slee Then both can be charged with assault. State self defense laws are that you can’t retaliate to an assault solely for retribution, and only use the amount of force needed to end and escape. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/153 "2016-12-23T00:40:47Z")
> [@Calico\_Jack](#): > > Then both can be charged with assault. State self defense laws are that you can’t retaliate to an assault solely for retribution, and only use the amount of force needed to end and escape. And you evidence that he did it for retribution is… ? Because in the videos I saw, he punched her and then walked away, i.e. “end and escape”. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/154 "2016-12-23T02:18:20Z")
> [@Calico\_Jack](#): > > lol, the comment was sarcasm. Just saw this. LOL, so was mine. Trumper on Trumper crime, come on man, you couldn’t have taken that seriously right? Note I would have made the same statement no matter whether you were being sarcastic or not but it really wasn’t until the statement about progressives that I thought maybe you might have meant this seriously. Glad to know you weren’t. I appreciate satire attempts and tend to give the benefit of the doubt unless poster history leads me to believe otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/155 "2016-12-23T03:43:05Z")
> [@Calico\_Jack](#): > > lol, the comment was sarcasm. > > But anyway on a serious note, I’m not an expert on self-defense, but generally you’re only allowed to use force enough to end or escape the assault, not to ‘punish’ the attacker, so responding to a slap with a cold-cock would’ve almost definitely been excessive force regardless of gender. (Anyone saying otherwise obviously has no clue about state self-defense laws, and anyone who follows their internet tough guy advice may wind up with a felony charge). Post snipped Can yoy elighten us with a apecific state law? I do not believe that you can. Second, he did not use excessive force. She pushed then hit him. He hit her back once and left. Or do you think state law insists on slap fights? Slee ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/156 "2016-12-23T03:51:06Z")
I watched the video and if Molitar had been a man there would be near universal agreement that Mixon’s punch was justified. The violent part of their encounter was approximately three seconds long. While Mixon is walking away Molitary shoves him, grabs him, slaps him, and he immediately retaliates with a strike of his own all within the span of three seconds. If I’m ever attacked by a woman I’m just going to take whatever she dishes out. It seems that I’m expected to assess my situation and respond with the exact level of force she used on me otherwise I can expect to be convicted all within the span of three seconds. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/157 "2016-12-23T05:35:07Z")
> [@Calico\_Jack](#): > > But anyway on a serious note, I’m not an expert on self-defense, but generally you’re only allowed to use force enough to end or escape the assault, not to ‘punish’ the attacker, so responding to a slap with a cold-cock would’ve almost definitely been excessive force regardless of gender. (Anyone saying otherwise obviously has no clue about state self-defense laws, and anyone who follows their internet tough guy advice may wind up with a felony charge). George Zimmerman reports a different judicial outcome. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/158 "2016-12-23T05:55:55Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > He has no legal obligation to walk away from a verbal altercation. He has a legal right to neutralize physical hostility until it becomes clear that the threat has been neutralized – that’s textbook self defense in the eyes of the law. > [@Gyrate](#): > > It is _understandable_ that someone’s reaction to being hit in the face is to immediately hit back. So if your wife or girlfriend slaps you across cross the face you punch her? That would be “understandable” and “textbook self defense” in your view? > [@Velocity](#): > > I am not making assumptions about you or your views, but this comment reminds me of how some people who argue for the side of women inadvertently end up sounding like misogynists - saying things like “Women are weak and frail.” Most women are physically weak compared to men, especially elite male athletes. Why would you think otherwise? Why would you think that’s misogynistic? You think women who are fearful of being overpowered by men are suffering from internalized misogyny? > [@Gyrate](#): > > Or are you “one of those Dopers” who thinks it’s “reasonable” for women to be able to assault men whenever they like with impunity? You would probably characterize me that way, sure. > [@](#): > > And what would you say if he’d attempted to restrain her and she’d still gotten injured? Would you be here complaining that of course he shouldn’t have done that, he should have done something else? I probably wouldn’t have posted, since it was mostly in reaction to so many people defending such an over the top reaction. I’m not surprised, though. I remember several years ago when that bus driver uppercut that woman most people seemed to agree with his logic. Passenger: That’s a fucking female! Bus driver: I don’t care. She wanna be a man, I’ll treat you like a man. At least in his case he couldn’t really retreat, since he was trying to drive. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/159 "2016-12-23T12:57:44Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > So if your wife or girlfriend slaps you across cross the face you punch her? That would be “understandable” and “textbook self defense” in your view? In the eyes of the law, yes. Would every male react in the same way? Maybe not, but that’s not what we’re talking about here. The issue is how to treat someone who was attacked and then reacted with violence instantaneously without premeditation. Mixon should be disciplined but the person who initiated the physical contact bears responsibility as well. We need to dispense with this old fashioned notion that women should have greater latitude in using offensive physical force. If women don’t want to be the victims of violence it would seem to me that the very last thing they should be doing is escalating a verbal altercation and making it a physical one. And beyond that point, even small women are very capable of causing real physical harm if they happen to strike a man - even a football player - in the right place. If she digs her finger nails in his eyes, she could cause permanent loss of vision. Women take self defense these days - they can easily leave a guy staggered with a palm to the temple or to the nose. How is a guy supposed to know which girl can actually fight and which one can’t? This is not a case of domestic violence in which a man uses force to terrorize and manipulate a woman in the context of an ongoing relationship. This is a case of violence, and it should be treated equally regardless of whether it is a man or a woman or a trans-gendered person. Mixon should be disciplined and undergo training so that he can avoid these situations in the first place. But conduct that would merely earn him a game or two suspension were his aggressor a male shouldn’t be magnified just so we can make ourselves feel all chivalrous. ---
**Author:** ![Calico\_Jack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calico_jack/32/7320_2.png) [@Calico\_Jack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calico_Jack)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255/160 "2016-12-23T13:59:05Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > George Zimmerman reports a different judicial outcome. Apples to oranges. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-player-hits-a-woman-the-case-of-joe-mixon/775255.md?page=9)