# College Football Thread - BCS, Bowls, Conference Championship, Coaching Changes **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 27, 2007, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-thread-bcs-bowls-conference-championship-coaching-changes/427979 "2007-11-27T23:51:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Uga\_VI](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/67e7ee/32.png) [@Uga\_VI](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uga_VI)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2007, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-thread-bcs-bowls-conference-championship-coaching-changes/427979/101 "2007-11-30T21:07:41Z")
[QUOTE=Omniscient] I think the major point is that if you are going to disparage the OSU scheduling of Washington, [/QUOTE] I didn’t do that, but maybe someone else in this thread did. ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2007, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-thread-bcs-bowls-conference-championship-coaching-changes/427979/102 "2007-11-30T22:50:37Z")
Weitzel has a [follow-up column](http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news;_ylt=AvCQXVmXQ_fSlwVSGhAjenIcvrYF?slug=dw-voice112907&prov=yhoo&type=lgns) on his proposal for a 1-A playoff based on comments/questions from reader email. He says 95% of the responses were positive, which seemed to shock him. Some of the other highlights: On the complaint that a playoff would over-extend the season: > [@](#): > > "(T)his is one of the great water-muddying arguments that proponents use. Too many games? Suddenly, the establishment cares about the health of the players? Just a couple of years ago they extended the season from 11 regular-season games to 12 for the sole purpose of making more money. > … > The real issue, however, isn’t the number of games a player is exposed to, but the number of actual plays where bodies go in motion. Statistically, the more plays you are in, the more likely there is an injury…Last weekend there were 16 NFL games and 17 college games involving teams ranked in the AP top 25. On average, the pro games featured 127.3 plays from scrimmage. The college games averaged 147.9. That’s 20.6 more plays, or an additional 16.2 percent. A college team that competes in 14 games (12 regular season games, a conference title game and a bowl game) are exposed to the same number of plays as 16.3 NFL games, or a little more than a full NFL season…In the interest of safety, the NCAA should adopt NFL clock rules to shorten the games…by doing just that, a 17-game college season (the most possible under this playoff plan) would equal, in terms of plays from scrimmage, 14.6 current college games, a far more reasonable deal for college kids’ knees. On the reasons you don’t hear about possible playoff scenarios in NCAA coverage: > [@](#): > > Announcers work for two groups, the conference…which is staunchly in favor of the current bowl system. And ESPN, which broadcasts tons of bowl games and has contracts with the conferences and, in the most ridiculous of conflicts, even owns five bowl games (Las Vegas, Hawaii, Armed Forces, New Mexico and [Papajohns.com](http://Papajohns.com)). It’s not a real shock they’d spew the propaganda. Neither is it a shock that ESPN’s myriad outlets won’t tackle this issue – the one fans overwhelming care about the most – in any in-depth, significant or intelligent manner. On the current system making “every game matter” > [@](#): > > (T)he “every week is a playoff” argument is as tired as it is untruthful. Three weeks ago Ohio State lost one of those “every week is a playoff” games and yet could still back into the title game. Even LSU might still make it. What playoff works like that? It’s just not accurate no matter how many times it is repeated. On a playoff “watering down the regular season” as in the NFL: > [@](#): > > as for the oft-repeated comparison to the NFL season – where regular season games obviously matter less, this doesn’t add up for three reasons. > > First, rivalry games in college football can’t be duplicated at the pro level. Alabama and Auburn played for nothing and everything last week. Second, and more to the point, the NFL season is 16 games long, not 12. That alone devalues each game. > > Third, the NFL invites 12 of its 32 teams to the playoffs, or 37.5 percent of the league. Division I-A has 120 teams. A 16-team college tournament would include just 13.3 percent of them and even that is a bit skewed since some are locked up by automatic bid (Florida can’t win the Sun Belt)…Unless we expanded the season to 16 games and held a 45-team tournament, then this isn’t a logical comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Euthanasiast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Euthanasiast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euthanasiast)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2007, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-thread-bcs-bowls-conference-championship-coaching-changes/427979/103 "2007-11-30T23:28:59Z")
[QUOTE=BobLibDem] Let’s see, when was the last time Georgia played a regular season game outside the south? Oh yeah, Johnson was president. At least it was Lyndon and not Andrew. Play some tough teams on the road and I might respect the Schedule Easy Competition schools. [/QUOTE] You’re kidding, right? You are aware that it is widely accepted throughout the country that the SEC has the toughest overall conference in the country year in and year out, right? That just getting through a typical season schedule as an SEC team makes it terribly difficult (if not damn near impossible at times) to **make** it to the National Championship, right? The SEC has one team in the conference that is considered a scrub team, and I’d put them up against better than half of the top tier teams in other conferences throughout the country most any day. And they (Vandy) would actually have a decent shot at beating them. ---
**Author:** ![aliquot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@aliquot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aliquot)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2007, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-thread-bcs-bowls-conference-championship-coaching-changes/427979/104 "2007-12-01T00:37:53Z")
[QUOTE=CJJ\*] (T)he “every week is a playoff” argument is as tired as it is untruthful. Three weeks ago Ohio State lost one of those “every week is a playoff” games and yet could still back into the title game. Even LSU might still make it. What playoff works like that? It’s just not accurate no matter how many times it is repeated. [/QUOTE] Well this is just crap. First of all, I’m at a loss to see how LSU makes it back in. Everything I’ve read says that Georgia is the first two-loss team in the queue to go to the NC game is things just get royally fubared. But more importantly, yeah, OSU could slide into the NC game, but it’s taken a lot of upsets and they, along with Georgia (barely), are the only two teams poised to take advantage of the missteps of others. In a playoff scenario, where a conference champ goes to the playoffs, you could have had Oklahoma forfeiting to OK State (I think… was anyone else in position to win the Big 12 South?), Michigan forfeiting to Wisconsin, LSU forfeiting to Arkansas, and I don’t even know what in the Big Easy and All Crap Conferences, and their chances of making the playoff would not be affected one bit. Oklahoma would still have to beat Missouri, Michigan beat OSU (yeah right), LSU would have to triumph against Tennessee, and whatever in the Big East and ACC, and that’s all that matters. The penultimate “regular season” game in each of these scenarios means shit. That’s three (maybe two-and-a-half, if I’m wrong about OU) games that really don’t matter at all in the playoff scenario, but do in the BCS scenario. There may be more, and they’re going to happen every single year. It’s simple, unavoidable logic – if the grand prize is only open to two teams, it’s by definition harder to achieve than a grand prize open to sixteen teams. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2007, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-thread-bcs-bowls-conference-championship-coaching-changes/427979/105 "2007-12-01T00:48:15Z")
[QUOTE=aliquot] Well this is just crap. First of all, I’m at a loss to see how LSU makes it back in. Everything I’ve read says that Georgia is the first two-loss team in the queue to go to the NC game is things just get royally fubared. But more importantly, yeah, OSU could slide into the NC game, but it’s taken a lot of upsets and they, along with Georgia (barely), are the only two teams poised to take advantage of the missteps of others. In a playoff scenario, where a conference champ goes to the playoffs, you could have had Oklahoma forfeiting to OK State (I think… was anyone else in position to win the Big 12 South?), Michigan forfeiting to Wisconsin, LSU forfeiting to Arkansas, and I don’t even know what in the Big Easy and All Crap Conferences, and their chances of making the playoff would not be affected one bit. Oklahoma would still have to beat Missouri, Michigan beat OSU (yeah right), LSU would have to triumph against Tennessee, and whatever in the Big East and ACC, and that’s all that matters. The penultimate “regular season” game in each of these scenarios means shit. That’s three (maybe two-and-a-half, if I’m wrong about OU) games that really don’t matter at all in the playoff scenario, but do in the BCS scenario. There may be more, and they’re going to happen every single year. It’s simple, unavoidable logic – if the grand prize is only open to two teams, it’s by definition harder to achieve than a grand prize open to sixteen teams. [/QUOTE] Big Easy…what a crock of shit that is. It is probably the most competetive conference in all of football, except for possibly the SEC. Two cupcakes: Pitt and Syracuse, and even those two are great historically. Last year, 5-0 in bowl games. I we were such a crap conference, then how did we beat all 5 of our bowl opponents last year? ---
**Author:** ![Rucksinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/898d66/32.png) [@Rucksinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rucksinator)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2007, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-thread-bcs-bowls-conference-championship-coaching-changes/427979/106 "2007-12-01T03:03:51Z")
[QUOTE=Omniscient] … Houston Nutt is a guy I’ve always liked, but he hasn’t exactly always gotten the most out of his teams. He certainly is no Les Miles, … [/QUOTE] What the hell? Are you offering Les Miles up as an example of someone who has gotten the most out of his team? He inherited a team that should be undefeated, but instead has 2 losses and is lucky that UK didn’t pull off a win against Tennessee; because Georgia would probably beat them in the SEC championship game. If LSU is lucky, Michigan will hire Les Miles, and they will be rid of him without buying him out (they’ll even get $1.25 mil.) ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Who](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Doctor\_Who](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Who)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2007, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-thread-bcs-bowls-conference-championship-coaching-changes/427979/107 "2007-12-01T03:31:02Z")
[QUOTE=jtgain] Big Easy…what a crock of shit that is. It is probably the most competetive conference in all of football, except for possibly the SEC. Two cupcakes: Pitt and Syracuse, and even those two are great historically. Last year, 5-0 in bowl games. I we were such a crap conference, then how did we beat all 5 of our bowl opponents last year? [/QUOTE] Ok, look. I like the Big East. I think it’s fascinating that programs like Louisville, Rutgers, South Florida, Cincinnati, and UConn are really making themselves into tough football teams. But, c’mon. The most competitive conference in all of football except for the SEC? You really think they stack up top to bottom with the Pac-10? The Big XII? The Big 10? I love to watch West Virginia play. I _really_ wanted South Florida to run the table. I love that UConn’s starting to field a team (I’ve always wondered why they haven’t made the jump into a football power). But don’t tell me that the Big East went 5-0 last year in bowl play. Sure, they did. But they played such powerhouses as East Carolina and Western Michigan. Louisville (which was a monster last year) played the luckiest team ever to win the ACC (Wake Forest). It was a disgrace that Louisville didn’t get to play a team that could challenge them. Besides, you have to admit the following: The Big East is only 3 years removed from having two powerhouse programs leave your conference (Miami and VT). You’re only 3 years removed from sending 8-3 Pitt out to the Fiesta bowl to get killed by Utah. That’s where the “Big Easy” comes from. Not to worry though, the conference is rapidly improving to the overall level of the other BCS conferences. I just wouldn’t argue that they’re second yet. ---
**Author:** ![Rucksinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/898d66/32.png) [@Rucksinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rucksinator)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2007, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-thread-bcs-bowls-conference-championship-coaching-changes/427979/108 "2007-12-01T04:52:11Z")
[QUOTE=Omniscient] We do? Really? I must have missed the memo. This obsession with the BCS and wanting to be in the national title hunt is exactly why so many teams schedule piss-poor non-conference games. …. [/QUOTE] IIRC, the BCS was on the verge of removing the incentive to schedule crappy teams. Then a few years ago Southern Cal got shut out of the championship game because of their weak schedule, and the rules were changed to accommodate them and their ilk. This is why I now hate Southern Cal. And why I respect the computer polls. The computer polls don’t care WHEN you lost your game, or WHAT your preseason ranking was. And those are the 2 biggest flaws in the human polls. [QUOTE=garygnu] If the bowl system is so great, why didn’t any of the others copy it? Look, bowls are fun but are not at all adequate for determining a champion, IMHO. We may just have to disagree. [/QUOTE] The bowl system wasn’t designed to determine a champion; it was designed to generate money. Welcome to capitalism. I hope you learn to enjoy it. [QUOTE=jtgain] I always thought that a good idea would be an 8 team playoff: All 6 BCS conferences are in plus the other conferences have a mini-playoff for the last two slots. No wild cards. You lose your conference, then no national championship. That makes sense to me. If you are Notre Dame, then join a conference or don’t be eligible. I’m tired of them getting a free ride because “they are Notre Dame”. [/QUOTE] Preach it, brother. Fuck Notre Dame. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2007, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-thread-bcs-bowls-conference-championship-coaching-changes/427979/109 "2007-12-01T07:24:54Z")
[QUOTE=Rucksinator] What the hell? Are you offering Les Miles up as an example of someone who has gotten the most out of his team? He inherited a team that should be undefeated, but instead has 2 losses and is lucky that UK didn’t pull off a win against Tennessee; because Georgia would probably beat them in the SEC championship game. If LSU is lucky, Michigan will hire Les Miles, and they will be rid of him without buying him out (they’ll even get $1.25 mil.) [/QUOTE] No, I was offering Miles as a guy who’s in high demand compared to Nutt. That’s all, on the whole I agree with you, and as a Michigan-hater I’m not exactly quaking over his potential hire. ---
**Author:** ![Jman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jman/32/4416_2.png) [@Jman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jman)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2007, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-thread-bcs-bowls-conference-championship-coaching-changes/427979/110 "2007-12-01T14:22:05Z")
[QUOTE=DSYoungEsq] When all is said and done, the best indicator of what is truly going on between two conferences is the record over time inter-conference. As has been pointed out, the Big-10 in that matchup can’t even carry the SEC’s jockstrap. :smack: [/QUOTE] Yes, all time, the SEC has a 58% winning percentage against the Big 10. However, in the last 5 years, Big 10 and SEC teams have played each other 14 times in bowl games. The results? 8-6 in favor of the Big 10. I’m sick of the stupid ‘SEC is God’ stuff. The SEC is certainly a good football conference, and it is probably the strongest conference in the NCAA right now, but it isn’t light years ahead of anyone. I’m sick of the slant. Arkansas beats LSU, and it’s “See, the SEC is so good, even the bottom tier teams are good enough to knock off the best team in the country!” Ohio State loses to Illinois, and it’s not because Illinois is so good, it’s “see, OSU is a weak team.” It couldn’t possibly be because Illinois is actually a very, very good football team. The Big 10 had 7 teams ranked in the top 25 at some point in the year. That’s not a weak conference. If there’s anything that’s been shown by the crazy results this year, it’s that there is real parity in college football right now. That’s a good thing! I too am a proponent for a playoff, and I really want a 16 team playoff. One auto-bid for EVERY Division I-A conference, plus 5 at-large bids. That way, every single team has a shot to win the national title, not just the handful who are in large conferences, or who happen to be ranked highly prior to the season. Heck, even if you ARE in a BCS conference, there have been years where going undefeated isn’t enough. Oh…and Go Sooners! ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2007, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-thread-bcs-bowls-conference-championship-coaching-changes/427979/111 "2007-12-01T21:40:09Z")
[QUOTE=treis] March Madness is great, but it has completely destroyed the regular season. I know I don’t start watching college basketball until the conference tournaments start, save for maybe a few marque match ups. [/QUOTE] Conference tournaments probably do more damage to the regular season than March Madness. But the expansion of the playoffs do hurt. The more wildcards you allow, the less important regular season games are. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2007, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-thread-bcs-bowls-conference-championship-coaching-changes/427979/112 "2007-12-01T21:49:40Z")
[QUOTE=treis] March Madness is great, but it has completely destroyed the regular season. I know I don’t start watching college basketball until the conference tournaments start, save for maybe a few marque match ups. [/QUOTE] Conference tournaments probably do more damage to the regular season than March Madness. But the expansion of the playoffs do hurt. The more wildcards you allow, the less important regular season games are. ---
**Author:** ![Rucksinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/898d66/32.png) [@Rucksinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rucksinator)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2007, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-thread-bcs-bowls-conference-championship-coaching-changes/427979/113 "2007-12-01T23:14:33Z")
IMHO, the best number of teams to have in a playoff to maintain the importance of the regular season, and insure that all deserving teams get a chance at the title, is 4. When’s the last time that a 5th ranked team could legitimately say “We are the best team in the nation, and we deserve a chance to prove it.”? And yet the 3rd ranked team can say this about every other year. So I’m in favor of a +1 system. As far as conference championship games go, I think that every conference should have them, or none. With a “+1” system, I’m going to lean towards “every”. For an 8- or 16- team playoff, I’m going to lean towards “none” (mainly because there wouldn’t be enough time). ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2007, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-thread-bcs-bowls-conference-championship-coaching-changes/427979/114 "2007-12-02T03:42:58Z")
The dominoes are beginning to fall for Georgia. If they do end up in the championship game it will be the biggest travesty ever. They didn’t win their conference. Hell, they didn’t even with their division in their conference. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2007, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-thread-bcs-bowls-conference-championship-coaching-changes/427979/115 "2007-12-02T03:57:21Z")
Boom. Down goes West Virginia. ---
**Author:** ![Fern\_Forest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/71c47a/32.png) [@Fern\_Forest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fern_Forest)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2007, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-thread-bcs-bowls-conference-championship-coaching-changes/427979/116 "2007-12-02T03:59:52Z")
You know, this season is almost tailor made for those arguing against the current post-season. What a world. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2007, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-thread-bcs-bowls-conference-championship-coaching-changes/427979/117 "2007-12-02T04:24:24Z")
Seems like things are shaping up for a OSU-LSU title game. Very interesting. And it’s time to start rooting for a Illini Rose Bowl berth. Not thrilled about facing USC though. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2007, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-thread-bcs-bowls-conference-championship-coaching-changes/427979/118 "2007-12-02T04:27:39Z")
[QUOTE=treis] The dominoes are beginning to fall for Georgia. If they do end up in the championship game it will be the biggest travesty ever. They didn’t win their conference. Hell, they didn’t even with their division in their conference. [/QUOTE] Much as I’d love to see Georgia in the championhip, I fully expect LSU to leapfrog them (and Kansas) and get into the title game. And the Tigers probably deserve their shot. They won the toughest conference, and their two losses were in overtime. On the other hand, Georgia is the hottest team in the country right now. I sure would love to see them get a crack at the Buckeyes. I’m sure OSU fans will be lobbying to play Kansas. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![drm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@drm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drm)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2007, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-thread-bcs-bowls-conference-championship-coaching-changes/427979/119 "2007-12-02T04:30:39Z")
I dunno, Va Tech beat a higher ranked BCS team (I don’t really understand the system)? Does it factor in that LSU spanked them early on in the season? This national championship will be meaningless no matter who ends up there. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2007, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-thread-bcs-bowls-conference-championship-coaching-changes/427979/120 "2007-12-02T04:35:46Z")
Yeah according to this week’s rankings VT is better than LSU, and they beat a, again according to the rankings, better team, and they did it more impressively. VT did lose to LSU, but that was the 2nd game of the season and Tech had a freshman QB. The Hoakies are a completely different team now then there were then. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-thread-bcs-bowls-conference-championship-coaching-changes/427979.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-football-thread-bcs-bowls-conference-championship-coaching-changes/427979.md?page=7)