# College kids nowadays don't appreciate what they have. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 13, 2005, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594 "2005-01-13T20:14:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594/61 "2005-01-14T21:02:59Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Y’know, maybe kids these days need to also be advised yer supposed to drop acid before Lit class, so the stories can seem deep, Man… > not Comp. Sci. Don’t drop acid. Take it pass/fail. ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594/62 "2005-01-14T21:23:58Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > As stated before in this thread, this thread is a rant about _some_ students; **Airman Doors** was very careful to qualify his rant and not label _all_ young students. Is this a particular peeve of yours that you are having a hard time letting go of? Hm. Subject line: “College kids nowadays don’t appreciate what they have.” > [@Airman Doors](#): > > Kids need perspective, if only to realize that what they have going for them is better than most people could ever imagine. Sounds kinda like generalizations to me, yeah. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594/63 "2005-01-14T21:40:39Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > Hm. Subject line: “College kids nowadays don’t appreciate what they have.” > Sounds kinda like generalizations to me, yeah. So, I take it they haven’t gotten around to teaching you about “context” in college yet? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594/64 "2005-01-14T21:52:35Z")
And that last one, which was the only generalization in the entire OP (if you want to consider it that, which you obviously do so I’ll go off that premise), holds true whether you’re the hardest working student or a high school dropout. Kids do need perspective. The rest of it, the specific criticisms, may or may not apply to you. If you’re like **LaurAnge** then they obviously don’t apply to you. Congrats. But all the same, I can’t think of too many kids that don’t take stuff for granted. You may be the exception, but I know that I did. Both of my sisters did. My older sister joined the Air Force out of high school and she’s still there. Unfortunately, she hasn’t changed since high school, so when she gets out after her 20 years she’s in for a rough time. My younger sister is like you guys. Hard working, conscientious, and driven. She’ll never have to learn the tough lessons, but all the same she knows that if she asks my mother for a few ducats to get by she’ll get it. Imagine if she had been thrown out of the house and had to make a living without a degree. Imagine that happening to yourself. It happened to me. And that’s what I mean by perspective. If you’ve never had it tough you tend to think that everything is easy. I assure you that it’s not. College and high school, it’s gravy in comparison. By the way, lest you think that I’m an old man, I’m just two weeks shy of 29. There’s been a lot of living in those last 10, and it only takes a short time to gain an appreciation for what it is to go to school. ---
**Author:** ![Try\_As\_I\_Might](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Try\_As\_I\_Might](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try_As_I_Might)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594/65 "2005-01-14T21:55:47Z")
A teacher I once had summed this up nicely (and i didn’t see it previously posted–if so, sorry): “Students are the only consumer group that demand to be cheated.” It is a horrible generalization that has a lot of truth in it. Look at all of the people in the back of the class that demand the right to ignore the information thay are paying out their nose for. I should know, I was once one of them. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594/66 "2005-01-14T22:01:06Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > By the way, lest you think that I’m an old man, I’m just two weeks shy of 29. There’s been a lot of living in those last 10, and it only takes a short time to gain an appreciation for what it is to go to school. Jesus Christ, I’m _older_ than you?! God damn. Happy Birthday, btw. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594/67 "2005-01-14T22:06:57Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > That should say ‘calculated’ not whatever it was I typed. > > As you can see, I teach no such classes where questions about _genitals_ should come up, yet they have. > > The question that sticks out the most in my mind though was the student who raised his hand in the middle of Operating Systems class to ask ‘Ms. Six, what are you doing after class? Would you like to go smoke a joint with me?’ Oh, boy. lol. I don’t think this is a college student thing, to be honest - I think this is a _programming_ student thing. I took a couple of Pascal/C++ classes back in high school, and we gave the teacher so much grief it wasn’t funny. Most of our class was spent either playing Netwars (old space fighter game that came with DR-DOS), arguing politics with the teacher, or photoshopping the (male) teacher’s head onto the bodies of supermodels or porn stars. This was in senior year - somehow, I doubt progamming students, or any other students, get a whole lot more mature before going into college. Myself, I got out of programming and into the far more maturity-inducing field of Political Science. Oh - and since your student brought it up: How _you_ doing, catsix? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594/68 "2005-01-14T22:24:31Z")
> [@Michael Ellis](#): > > Aww, aren’t you special. Want a cookie? I actually _would_ like a cookie. Did you bring enough for the rest of the thread? ---
**Author:** ![coleridge78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@coleridge78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coleridge78)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2005, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594/69 "2005-01-15T01:37:32Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Ugh don’t get me started. The worst part is that in all likelyhood he isn’t paying for his school either his parents are. It simply boggles my mind at the number of classes some of the people I know skip. I know of one that keeps a tally and it was up over 30 for a semester and I just stared at her dumbfounded when she told me. Its not like I am perfect I have skipped a few classes so I understand the mentality. But skipping on average more than once every two weeks is bogus. I agree with most of the OP. This, however, I’m uncomfortable with. I skipped far more than one class every two weeks. There were some classes I almost never went to. I also took the maximum credit loads, including summer, and worked 30 hours per week third shift. It wasn’t a case of laziness. There are some classes, especially at large universities, which entail lectures that are essential useless to people who are good at learning from reading. Listening to a lecture does absolutely nothing for me–it just doesn’t compute. I have to _discuss_ it, or _do_ it, or read it. Just listening to something is worse than useless. Yeah, I knew plenty of people that skipped all the time and failed out. Just don’t be too quick to think that everyone should be able to learn by sitting in a hall with 350 other people, falling asleep. ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2005, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594/70 "2005-01-15T02:26:51Z")
> [@Michael Ellis](#): > > Wow, someone else posted what I did. Terrific. I hadn’t read the whole thread before I posted. Now shove off. Then maybe you SHOULD read the whole thread before you post, yes? ---
**Author:** ![Burnt\_Sugar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee59a6/32.png) [@Burnt\_Sugar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Burnt_Sugar)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2005, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594/71 "2005-01-15T03:08:58Z")
The title of this thread riled me up a little. Inside, the thread was mostly about one fellow in **Airman** ’s class. Although, as been said, it ended with another generalisation. So why could this thread have not had any stupid generalisations **Airman**? Didn’t think enough people would open your thread if the title was more specific? “I pit annoying guy in my lecture.” I accept that you think “kids need perspective”. But this makes no sense: > [@Airman Doors](#): > > …But all the same, I can’t think of too many kids that don’t take stuff for granted. You may be the exception, but I know that I did. Both of my sisters did. My older sister joined the Air Force out of high school and she’s still there. Unfortunately, she hasn’t changed since high school, so when she gets out after her 20 years she’s in for a rough time. My younger sister is like you guys. Hard working, conscientious, and driven. She’ll never have to learn the tough lessons, but all the same she knows that if she asks my mother for a few ducats to get by she’ll get it. > > Imagine if she had been thrown out of the house and had to make a living without a degree. Imagine that happening to yourself. It happened to me. And that’s what I mean by perspective. If you’ve never had it tough you tend to think that everything is easy. I assure you that it’s not. College and high school, it’s gravy in comparison. Now, I’m not concerned with your older sister. But, your younger sister sounds like a fine young lady. Why, exactly, does she need “perspective”? Why are you wishing hard times on all of us so that us “kids” can get some perspective. Your sister is doing fine without it, it seems. The annoying guy in your class _may_ need some perspective, but why your sister, who is doing fine? > [@Michael Ellis](#): > > Aww, aren’t you special. Want a cookie? You are mocking her because she works hard and is proud of it? Maybe you need some “perspective”. > [@coleridge78](#): > > I agree with most of the OP. This, however, I’m uncomfortable with. I skipped far more than one class every two weeks. There were some classes I almost never went to. > > I also took the maximum credit loads, including summer, and worked 30 hours per week third shift. It wasn’t a case of laziness. > > There are some classes, especially at large universities, which entail lectures that are essential useless to people who are good at learning from reading. Listening to a lecture does absolutely nothing for me–it just doesn’t compute. I have to _discuss_ it, or _do_ it, or read it. Just listening to something is worse than useless. > > Yeah, I knew plenty of people that skipped all the time and failed out. Just don’t be too quick to think that everyone should be able to learn by sitting in a hall with 350 other people, falling asleep. This is me too. I do well at uni. My best mark came from a subject where I attended exactly 1.5hrs of lectures in the whole semester. No, I was not bludging, I learnt the content in a way that best suited me. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2005, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594/72 "2005-01-15T03:30:39Z")
> [@AwSnappity](#): > > Why, though? People always say, “You’re paying such-and-such amount for every hour you spend in class.” But when it comes down to it, you’re paying for the degree. The degree is largely what is going to get you hired. My friend is majoring in Aerospace Engineering. She goes to maybe 50% of her classes each week. She gets amazing grades, and is in the honors program. Going to class is wasting her time, so why should she go? She’s paying to get her degree, and there’s no question that she’s going to graduate with honors. You know, this is an atttude that totally saddens me. It is now almost impossible for me to fail (JD, back after over 10 years in the workforce). I have a job, dependent on passing the bar (not helped by any of my courses). And yet I just dropped out of one reknowned Mickey Mouse class, Advanced Legal Research (2 credit hours, pass-fail, one truncated meeting a week, no reading, no assessed work) and replaced it with Philosophy of Law (3 credits, exam, oodles of reading, 2 papers in the semester). People have told me I am an idiot for this, but this is the last chance I have in my life to read and study for its own sake. It doesn’t have to lead anywhere. It’s not just about the letters after the name. If going to class is ever wasting your time, then you are studying the wrong thing. There’s a beauty to learning in and of itself. I have no doubt there are some ‘straight-through’ students that realize this. In fact I know some of them. But I also know that in my experience it is much more prevalent in those who return to education after a significant break. ---
**Author:** ![Burnt\_Sugar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee59a6/32.png) [@Burnt\_Sugar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Burnt_Sugar)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2005, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594/73 "2005-01-15T03:44:00Z")
> [@villa](#): > > If going to class is ever wasting your time, then you are studying the wrong thing. You do know that you can learn without going to class? Just because going to class is what works for you, doesn’t mean it works for everyone. In business lectures I get bored as all get out. Most of the lecturers don’t make the content interesting. So I stay home and go through problems and learn by myself. I learn by doing the problems rather than by listening to lecturers drone. I enjoy going through problems by myself. There is nothing wrong with that. There is also no way my classes are easy. Several have a 40% pass rate. Because I know how to study in a way that works best for me (conventional or otherwise), I do well. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2005, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594/74 "2005-01-15T03:57:07Z")
And you are missing what I am saying. Sure the class can be badly taught, and you can learn more outside it. Then take a class that is not badly taught. They exist. If the required courses are too poor to merit your attendance then maybe you are either taking the wrong subject or the right one at the wrong institution. This doesn’t mean don’t do the work outside of class, if that is what ‘works’, but if you are at a place where the required attended course requirements are inadequate, that is a sad reflection on the institution. My point is that viewing a college experience as the easiest way from point A (High School Diploma) to Point B (degree) is a tragic waste. It’s meant to be fun, not a chore. And compared to work it is (for me at least). I’m not meaning to criticize you here, though I can see how it sounds as if I am. I don’t like a instrumentalist view of education. Personally, I’m glad when a lot of the class don’t turn up, as a smaller class is a better class as far as I am concerned. My complaint is not so much with people missing class, its with the attitude of **Aw Snappity** that I saw as saying that the sole reason of being there is to get a degree. Then I kind of rambled on, as I have done here. Hmmmmm. Bad that. ---
**Author:** ![lel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8797f3/32.png) [@lel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lel)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2005, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594/75 "2005-01-15T05:20:21Z")
Reading this thread even more, I wonder why academic skill is so valued in the educational arena. Like many other students who succeeded at college, I spent much of my time there studying and going to class and doing homework. Well, guess what? Your bosses don’t fucking care how well you did in school, for the most part (highly technical fields exempted, probably). All you really have to do is be able to demonstrate that you can do a job with a reasonable level of competence. What really matters is one’s social skills, one’s ability to relate to others and project good relations with others. Shit, I’d be doing a hell of a lot better for myself if I’d have spent less time studying and more time in the bar honing my social skills. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2005, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594/76 "2005-01-15T05:40:18Z")
> [@Burnt Sugar](#): > > You do know that you can learn without going to class? Just because going to class is what works for you, doesn’t mean it works for everyone. In business lectures I get bored as all get out. Most of the lecturers don’t make the content interesting. So I stay home and go through problems and learn by myself. I learn by doing the problems rather than by listening to lecturers drone. I enjoy going through problems by myself. There is nothing wrong with that. > > There is also no way my classes are easy. Several have a 40% pass rate. Because I know how to study in a way that works best for me (conventional or otherwise), I do well. If you skip class, you’re cheating yourself out of your instructor’s expertise. This semester, for example, I’m taking a course in the History of Soviet and post-Soviet Russia. It’s largely a lecture course, and Wednesday, we were all bored to tears while the professor rattled off a bunch of numbers. Sure, I could’ve looked up all that information myself and learned a bunch more while I was at it. But I wouldn’t have gotten all the other information that the professor passed along. Much of it is information from his own research and travels and experiences. I can’t find those in the textbook, nor would independent study ever replace them. That said, I understand what you’re saying. Some classes can very easily be self-taught. I’ve wasted far too much time in a classroom when I could’ve taught myself the material and passed. But I would have denied myself the interaction of my classmates and the expertise of the professors teaching them. Some of them are good friends today. Heck, I’ll even go out on a limb and say that I’ve learned the most from some of the most boring professors. Robin ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2005, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594/77 "2005-01-15T15:40:35Z")
I strongly suspect another school dynamic is that you’ll find a lot fewer objectionable-to-Airman students at a school where you don’t need very (or at least moderately) high grades to get in. Whether or not one has to pay a lot to get there. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2005, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594/78 "2005-01-15T15:52:08Z")
I graduated about six years ago, and I’m probably the student the OP described. Spoiled and unappreciative. Didn’t take classes as seriously as I should have, and didn’t take advantage of all the opportunities. I was there to get a degree, and I got it. If it makes you feel better, I totally regret my attitude. I wish I had taken some history courses to learn some stuff that I don’t know. I wish I paid more attention in my science courses, or done a few of the readings. Now, six years later, I realize that I like learning, but now it isn’t handed to me. So, my kids, if I have any, will be in a similar position as me. I’ve managed to be successful, and will be able to financially provide for these future children. How do I make them not be like I was? ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2005, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594/79 "2005-01-15T15:55:20Z")
> [@LaurAnge](#): > > I strongly suspect another school dynamic is that you’ll find a lot fewer objectionable-to-Airman students at a school where you don’t need very (or at least moderately) high grades to get in. Whether or not one has to pay a lot to get there. DON’T??? Do. ---
**Author:** ![AwSnappity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a3d4f5/32.png) [@AwSnappity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AwSnappity)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2005, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594/80 "2005-01-15T22:12:08Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Sure the class can be badly taught, and you can learn more outside it. Then take a class that is not badly taught. They exist. If the required courses are too poor to merit your attendance then maybe you are either taking the wrong subject or the right one at the wrong institution. This doesn’t mean don’t do the work outside of class, if that is what ‘works’, but if you are at a place where the required attended course requirements are inadequate, that is a sad reflection on the institution. I strongly doubt that anyone would tell me that the University of Illinois is the wrong institution for engineering. In fact, I think my friend picked a fabulous institution for engineering. (P.S. Did I mention that my friend, the one who attends class half the time, is minoring in math alongside her aerospace major?) I don’t think it’s the wrong major for her, either. She’s great at math and physics. Calculus is intuitive for her. As for taking a class that is badly taught, yeah, it happens. Sometimes it’s necessary, what with requirements and scheduling and available TAs/profs and everything. You can’t always get out of that. And probably every major is going to have requirements that seem ridiculous to _someone_. There are also gen eds that you have to take, no matter what your major is. Some of these gen eds can be a joke. Hell, the head advisor of Liberal Arts & Sciences named off a couple gen eds that will be an easy A. And I know people (not myself) who will take blowoff gen eds because they don’t want to have to attend every single lecture, and they don’t want a non-major class that will lower their GPA. Now, this is _totally_ not the way I handle my education; I need to be there to learn the info, so I go to class regularly (or as regularly as I can, for reasons that are no one’s business here). I know from experience that my grades are lower if I don’t attend every single class. But if someone else is able to get stellar grades and graduate with honors, in a subject that is _so_ not blow-off that it’s not even funny, then why should it be necessary for her to attend class, if she can learn more efficiently on her own? > [@](#): > > My point is that viewing a college experience as the easiest way from point A (High School Diploma) to Point B (degree) is a tragic waste. It’s meant to be fun, not a chore. And compared to work it is (for me at least). This I disagree with. I’m not at school to have fun. I’m at school to learn, study, get the grades, get the degree. I suspect that there are others like me. There’s this meme in America that you can do whatever your little heart desires, and you’ll love it, and people will pay you for it, and yadda yadda. Not so. The truth is, you gotta go with what makes you marketable. You can’t just study what you love, have a ball, and then expect to get job offers based on that. If you do, then that’s wonderful. But I’m not holding my breath. I’m getting an undergrad degree so that I can go to grad school and study something that will pretty much guarantee that I’ll get a job. I don’t want to take chances. I don’t want to end up a retail slave for the rest of my life, I don’t want to always be struggling to make ends meet, and I’m taking measures against that. I’m going to be competing for a job with a zillion other college graduates, and I want to have an edge. Taking my education seriously will [hopefully] give me that edge. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594.md?page=5)