# College kids nowadays don't appreciate what they have. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 13, 2005, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594 "2005-01-13T20:14:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594/81 "2005-01-16T05:13:08Z")
You think I have not taken my education seriously because I think education is an end in itself? I’ve worked my ass of in college this time round (far less so my first crack, when I also did pretty well at increasing my job chances too), but this time, I have made sure I also focus on the beauty of learning itself. I have never said it should be required to attend every class. I’m glad when people whose sole intention is to learn only what is coming up on the Bar exam do not turn up to class. I said it is a depressing attitude that the sole purpose of education is to get letters after your name, and to increase your ‘market value.’ If you think it is, and you are tailoring your education that way, then you are missing out on a lot. I can’t convince you of this, but I hope one day you will realize it. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594/82 "2005-01-16T08:36:39Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > I am so fucking _ **sick** _ of that. We don’t judge older generations by the actions of one or two of you; could either give us the same respect or shut the fuck up? Evidently you’ve missed those threads about old people not being able to drive, use ATM machines, etc., etc., etc. Let’s have some threads jumping on those middle-aged people. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594/83 "2005-01-16T19:28:36Z")
> [@villa](#): > > \ I said it is a depressing attitude that the sole purpose of education is to get letters after your name, and to increase your ‘market value.’ If you think it is, and you are tailoring your education that way, then you are missing out on a lot. I can’t convince you of this, but I hope one day you will realize it. I agree with this. **Snappity** , you’re working for your degree. When you get that, you’ll work for your Grad degree. When you get that, you’ll work on getting a good job. When you get that, you’ll work on getting promoted. When you get that, you’ll work on getting a bigger house. When you get that, you’ll work on getting a resort cottage. When you get that… Do you see what I’m getting at here? There’s more to life that achieving things. You’re trying to get education so you can get a good job so you can support yourself. Why do you want to support yourself? So you can do things that you enjoy with your life. When is the magical day when you get to enjoy your life, instead of just working for something? What is the magical salary where you’ll say, “Okay, I make enough money now. I can rest now and enjoy myself.” I guess what I’m saying is don’t expect some magical future day to arrive when you can start living your life. Your life is right here, right now. Enjoy it while you’re in it. ---
**Author:** ![Amberlei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e56c9b/32.png) [@Amberlei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amberlei)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594/84 "2005-01-16T22:22:18Z")
> [@AwSnappity](#): > > Why, though? People always say, “You’re paying such-and-such amount for every hour you spend in class.” But when it comes down to it, you’re paying for the degree. The degree is largely what is going to get you hired. My friend is majoring in Aerospace Engineering. She goes to maybe 50% of her classes each week. She gets amazing grades, and is in the honors program. Going to class is wasting her time, so why should she go? She’s paying to get her degree, and there’s no question that she’s going to graduate with honors. By skipping classes, you’re short-changing yourself. Sure you may still graduate, even with honors, as your friend seems to be doing, but think what a firmer grasp of a concept you obtain when able to discuss it or hear it in lectures. For example, I skipped a lot of my intermediary metabolism classes when I was in school. I did alright in the class, getting a 3.7 or so, by reading each of the chapters covered the night before exams, but upon graduation, when I actually had to know the material and apply it to research, I had to go back and reread quite a bit before I was able to make the connections needed. ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2005, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594/85 "2005-01-17T00:46:40Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > Do you see what I’m getting at here? There’s more to life that achieving things. You’re trying to get education so you can get a good job so you can support yourself. Why do you want to support yourself? So you can do things that you enjoy with your life. When is the magical day when you get to enjoy your life, instead of just working for something? What is the magical salary where you’ll say, “Okay, I make enough money now. I can rest now and enjoy myself.” Honestly? When I graduate and get into actual Nursing. As I already work at a hospital it’s more like working for a promotion for me. But as I’m at uni and pretty much all the subjects are compulsory I get a lot of wank thrown my way that I can’t get out of, but I can skip the classes that are literally useless to me. Like I’m going to need to know about how the white man keeps Aboriginals down to properly nurse them. I learned far more about Nursing Aboriginals from a nurse on prac who’s done so for years than from that class, and I don’t regret skipping every lecture but the first 3. (Not only did I pass but they dropped the course as a requirement for the year after me :mad: ) ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2005, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594/86 "2005-01-17T01:59:35Z")
> [@villa](#): > > You think I have not taken my education seriously because I think education is an end in itself? I’ve worked my ass of in college this time round (far less so my first crack, when I also did pretty well at increasing my job chances too), but this time, I have made sure I also focus on the beauty of learning itself. > > I have never said it should be required to attend every class. I’m glad when people whose sole intention is to learn only what is coming up on the Bar exam do not turn up to class. I said it is a depressing attitude that the sole purpose of education is to get letters after your name, and to increase your ‘market value.’ If you think it is, and you are tailoring your education that way, then you are missing out on a lot. I can’t convince you of this, but I hope one day you will realize it. That isn’t the sole purpose of education, unless you limit education to paying $7000 a year to go to college and read about 8 books a year when your public library has about 100,000 books to pick from. I visit the library all the time, I also love the internet and would beg for quarters to buy broadband internet access so I could continue to research whatever I became interested in since doing research on dialup is like driving a dumptruck on a racetrack. lel has a point. I know a guy who got an undergrad 4.0 with a B.S. in math. He is brilliant and never really had to study in school since he learned the subject the instant it was shown to him but he is emotionally immature, overly vulnerable, a recovering drug addict and unreliable. He made $20/hr as a computer programmer, then when his boss fired him he just took his customers and freelanced for them at $45/hr. His life isn’t exactly desirable even though he probably knows higher math inside and out, and he more than doubled his income by just making one smart move. Learning something for the sake of knowing it isn’t really productive, and learning to socialize or make good decisions can go alot further in life than learning the history of Judaism or why water warps light so when you look at something underwater it appears crooked. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2005, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594/87 "2005-01-17T04:18:57Z")
> [@Silentgoldfish](#): > > Honestly? When I graduate and get into actual Nursing. As I already work at a hospital it’s more like working for a promotion for me. But as I’m at uni and pretty much all the subjects are compulsory I get a lot of wank thrown my way that I can’t get out of, but I can skip the classes that are literally useless to me. > > Like I’m going to need to know about how the white man keeps Aboriginals down to properly nurse them. I learned far more about Nursing Aboriginals from a nurse on prac who’s done so for years than from that class, and I don’t regret skipping every lecture but the first 3. (Not only did I pass but they dropped the course as a requirement for the year after me :mad: ) My point is not about skipping classes; it’s about living your life _while_ you’re living it, not at some ephemeral point in the future. Being a student is a state of being; being an employee is a state of being. Don’t lose sight of the experience that you’re currently having because all your attention is on what you’re working towards. ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2005, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594/88 "2005-01-17T04:48:25Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > My point is not about skipping classes; it’s about living your life _while_ you’re living it, not at some ephemeral point in the future. Being a student is a state of being; being an employee is a state of being. Don’t lose sight of the experience that you’re currently having because all your attention is on what you’re working towards. That’s why I skipped my boring class and went to the uni bar instead 😉 ---
**Author:** ![AwSnappity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a3d4f5/32.png) [@AwSnappity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AwSnappity)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2005, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594/89 "2005-01-17T06:51:09Z")
I was going to type out individual responses to everyone, but I’ll keep it short(ish). I see my life and school as two separate things. I can still enjoy my life while not enjoying school. It’s just that the nine months I’m at school are pretty crummy for the most part. But I realize how important it is, so I’m going to work and do my best. I find that I prefer working over going to school. I’m also hoping that grad school will go better for me (and I think it will, for a variety of reasons that I don’t care to get into). Anyway, go and and continue to lament poor **AwSnappity** who is wasting her life by going to school and not loving every second of it. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do, even if you don’t like it. That’s my philosophy. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2005, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594/90 "2005-01-17T15:34:38Z")
> [@AwSnappity](#): > > \ Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do, even if you don’t like it. That’s my philosophy. And _my_ philosophy is, if you gotta do it, find a way to like it. Or at least find something good about it. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2005, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594/91 "2005-01-17T22:30:39Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > Only that one time I had to tell a student ‘You will delete that file immediately and never, ever download anything like that again on a school computer or I will delete your user account and you will never get another one.’ All right-what was it? I can’t imagine paying for a course, and not going to class. Most of the time, the way things were set up, you couldn’t skip a class and expect to pass. We were tested soully from our notes-in my last couple classes, I don’t think I opened the text books even once. When I took my Russian history course, for example, our professor was a man who had defected from the former USSR back in the early 80s. I don’t think I would have gotten HALF as much out of that class if I had skipped than if I attended. Look, to each his own. But I still think the whole attitude, “Well, I can skip and learn on my own” is a cop out. Why even bother taking the class then? Find some way of doing an independent study. ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2005, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594/92 "2005-01-17T23:13:40Z")
Because some classes are compulsory and you have to do them to complete whatever degree? ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594/93 "2005-01-18T03:29:07Z")
> [@Wesley Clark](#): > > Learning something for the sake of knowing it isn’t really productive Never said it was, never said education should be ‘productive’ what ever that means. It’s a good thing in and of itself. It is better to know things than not to know them. Not because of where it can get you, but because knowledge is good. I learned this reading David Hume 19 years ago, and it hasn’t changed since. ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594/94 "2005-01-18T05:14:42Z")
Someone must explain to me how failure to attend class somehow shows a failure to enjoy knowledge as an end in itself. I’ve had plenty of classes with non-compulsory attendence, where I learned everything that was required of me and more - all while attending lectures only on rare occasions. I’m thinking specifically of the calculus sequence. Everything was in the book; I understood everything, did the problems, did the proofs. I enjoyed it. But I slept in and didn’t go to class the good majority of the time. Who am I short-changing here? How would I have been served by attending? Should I have dropped out of the class so that next time I could have signed up for one with compulsory attendence? Should I have switched my major from computer science to one whose lower requirements were more difficult for me? As to those people who think college is a place to get drunk and party and altogether hold on to a lack of perspective: sheddap. The real world is difficult, and paying out the ass to fry out your brain and delay the inevitable entrance is not a good course of action. I’m still in college - my parents pay nothing of it - I work and I own a frigging house. I have four cats and a dog and great girlfriend. I never lived on campus and I don’t party, and I think I’m better off for it - if nothing else financially. Just because you’re in college doesn’t mean you should put life on hold. ---
**Author:** ![Medea\_s\_Child](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Medea\_s\_Child](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Medea_s_Child)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594/95 "2005-01-18T19:36:31Z")
> [@AwSnappity](#): > > I’m not at school to have fun. I’m at school to learn, study, get the grades, get the degree. I suspect that there are others like me. There’s this meme in America that you can do whatever your little heart desires, and you’ll love it, and people will pay you for it, and yadda yadda. Not so. The truth is, you gotta go with what makes you marketable. \*\* You can’t just study what you love, have a ball, and then expect to get job offers based on that.\*\* If you do, then that’s wonderful. But I’m not holding my breath. I’m getting an undergrad degree so that I can go to grad school and study something that will pretty much guarantee that I’ll get a job. I don’t want to take chances. I don’t want to end up a retail slave for the rest of my life, I don’t want to always be struggling to make ends meet, and I’m taking measures against that. I’m going to be competing for a job with a zillion other college graduates, and I want to have an edge. Taking my education seriously will [hopefully] give me that edge. _bolding mine_ Loving what you do is the edge. What you are calling a dream is my life. I graduated Dec. 18th, I started my job Jan 10th, I closed out the bar with the highest ranking guy at my plant on Thursday, with him taking note of my career goals. I’m having a _ball_. I took classes that didn’t go anywhere with either of my degrees. I have a degree that is completely useless without a PhD I will never go after. I ignored requirements because they were boring, and replaced them with classes I picked or created or plain talked my dean into accepting. I even graduated late because I wanted to take classes I liked rather than the least time path out of university. I worked my ass off, but on things I loved. And now I’m working my ass off on things that delight me beyond words, and its being noticed, under a month after graduation. I’m not seeing how that’s chancy. So in short, my response to the bolded comment above is “Why not?” ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594/96 "2005-01-18T20:05:40Z")
> [@AwSnappity](#): > > Anyway, go and and continue to lament poor **AwSnappity** who is wasting her life by going to school and not loving every second of it. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do, even if you don’t like it. That’s my philosophy. Not liking what you’re doing could be part of the problem. The world is full of doctors and lawyers and engineers who hate what they do, but do it anyway because they feel they “must” because Dad (or Mom) was a doctor or lawyer or engineer. Financial realities are forcing me to graduate as soon as possible. I don’ wanna, though, because I’m having way too much fun. (Fortunately, there’s always grad school afterward. 😉 ) I’ve had some really shitty courses that I couldn’t wait to get through, but I somehow managed to learn something from them. For the most part, though, I’ve managed to have a lot of fun doing what I’m doing. It shows in my grades; I’ve gotten exactly two Bs since I’ve been here. It shows in my attitude; when I love what I’m doing, I _want_ to do it. It also shows in my behavior; I’m way too enthusiastic about broadcasting. If what you’re doing now is making you miserable, you might want to re-think what you’re doing. Robin ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594/97 "2005-01-19T02:30:41Z")
> [@Cheese Monster](#): > > Someone must explain to me how failure to attend class somehow shows a failure to enjoy knowledge as an end in itself. I’ve had plenty of classes with non-compulsory attendence, where I learned everything that was required of me and more - all while attending lectures only on rare occasions. I didn’t say it was. I said that seeing college as solely a way of increasing one’s marketability was a failure to enjoy knowledge as an end in itself. The not attendign class thing kind of got tacked on by further discussions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-kids-nowadays-dont-appreciate-what-they-have/284594.md?page=4)