# College Professors - are you on the watch list? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 12, 2017, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-professors-are-you-on-the-watch-list/791059 "2017-07-12T01:52:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-professors-are-you-on-the-watch-list/791059/21 "2017-07-12T18:19:35Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Again, I think the alumni donating money to the college, **the legislators approving funding for those colleges** , students taking the courses, and the parents paying for them, should be made aware of what those professors represent. One might think so. But in fact, if one is an academic at a state funded school, they are protected in their speech, because their employer is also “the government”, and the government cannot infringe upon free speech. It does often present a pickle in real life, but there you have it. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-professors-are-you-on-the-watch-list/791059/22 "2017-07-12T18:22:38Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Found this great site called “[Professor Watchlist](http://www.professorwatchlist.org/)”. It exposes the professors who the authors feel go over the line in showing their far left ideologies or discriminate against conservative students. The authors further feel they students, alumni, and ordinary citizens have the right to know the political stripes and values of these paid college staff. > > Now some have called this site “New McCarthyism”. [This site](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/28/us/professor-watchlist-is-seen-as-threat-to-academic-freedom.html)says its a threat to academic freedom. > > Now I dont get it? Why wouldnt a professor and the school that employs them want to hide anything? Their are no lies. Everything is documented. If a professor does a tweet, it comes out. What is the problem? Plus people rate other people and businesses all the time - what not college professors? > > Plus its really not that different from the site [Rate My Professor](https://www.ratemyprofessors.com/). > > So what do you all think? I think some college professors would be guilty in other workplaces with a human resource department, and colleges should fire them if they abuse their power same as most work places. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-professors-are-you-on-the-watch-list/791059/23 "2017-07-12T20:17:22Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Oh yeah, you damn well better go along with the proff. Or at least not your head, keep your mouth shut, and pretend to. Who knows. Maybe professor leftist will let down their guard, thinking your one of his brainwashed clones and send out a bad tweet or something then you can REALLY let him have it. Not that it will do anything since proffs almost never get fired but at least you can make them squirm and knock them off their high horse. Self-esteem issues much? A university is one of the few places left in American society where there is some freedom to openly discuss ideas and express opinions without fear of retaliation. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-professors-are-you-on-the-watch-list/791059/24 "2017-07-12T20:21:22Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > I think some college professors would be guilty in other workplaces with a human resource department, and colleges should fire them if they abuse their power same as most work places. Colleges and universities do “fire” faculty that are abusive to students. However requiring critical thinking is not considered abuse. I find it rather heinous that the alt-right throws fits over conservative students possibly being exposed to new ideas while being utterly silent about or even applauding how businesses abuse their employees rights to freedom of expression all the time. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-professors-are-you-on-the-watch-list/791059/25 "2017-07-12T20:43:53Z")
Don’t mind me, I’m just getting in line for the Happy Meal. I heard there’d be extra dessert, too. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-professors-are-you-on-the-watch-list/791059/26 "2017-07-12T21:09:37Z")
This has been done for years, but previously it was because of all those heinous professors [indoctrinating their students with pro-Palestinian propaganda](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campus_Watch). It was fucking stupid then and it’s fucking stupid now. Why is it that when left-leaning people complain about conservative professors they are “snowflakes,” but when right-leaning people complain about leftist professors they are the Guardians of Freedom or something. > [@Silver\_lining](#): > > I think some college professors would be guilty in other workplaces with a human resource department, and colleges should fire them if they abuse their power same as most work places. Guilty of _what_? ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-professors-are-you-on-the-watch-list/791059/27 "2017-07-12T21:12:19Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Guilty of _what_? Thinking. It’s the gateway drug to liberalism. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-professors-are-you-on-the-watch-list/791059/28 "2017-07-12T21:25:05Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > …A university is one of the few places left in American society where there is some freedom to openly discuss ideas and express opinions without fear of retaliation. Again, I’m not remotely wanting to associate myself with the equally misguided alt-right as represented by this website. But you’re missing the serious underlying point that the authoritarian left in academia is now a disturbingly influential force. Many of us with traditional liberal values are deeply concerned that the academy as a place “to openly discuss ideas and express opinions without fear of retaliation” is under threat - _from the left_. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-professors-are-you-on-the-watch-list/791059/29 "2017-07-12T22:04:05Z")
A site like this isn’t too big a deal, as long as, first, it’s honest, and second, it’s bipartisan. Most of the places I’ve worked have had policies against discussing politics with students (I don’t know exactly where the line is drawn for, say, history teachers). And I agree that this is a good policy, and so I don’t discuss politics with students. I do discuss global warming and evolution with students, because those aren’t political topics, and it’s also my job to teach science (now, what to do about global warming is a political topic, and so I avoid that too). But I could very easily see someone mistaking global warming or evolution for a political topic, and putting me on a list like that. ---
**Author:** ![Patx2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/73ab20/32.png) [@Patx2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patx2)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-professors-are-you-on-the-watch-list/791059/30 "2017-07-12T22:12:03Z")
College should be a time for kids to be exposed to different ideas and form their own opinions. No one on either side of the aisle should be pushing their ideas or their parties ideas down these kids’ throats. If one side is presented, the other side should get a fair shake without color commentary from a professor telling them which side is in their opinion correct. Unfortunately, it doesn’t always happen that way. ---
**Author:** ![Unabashed\_Fascist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/c2a13f/32.png) [@Unabashed\_Fascist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unabashed_Fascist)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-professors-are-you-on-the-watch-list/791059/31 "2017-07-12T22:29:35Z")
Maybe I’m the odd one out, but I went to college for six years and can’t recall ever being exposed to my instructors political opinions. Even in my liberal arts and poly-sci classes, it seemed like the professors would step on eggshells to avoid even giving the impression of a personal opinion. Maybe it’s a management thing, I noticed my university isn’t mentioned anywhere on that website, and it was pretty large (~30,000 Students). ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-professors-are-you-on-the-watch-list/791059/32 "2017-07-12T22:43:18Z")
Is there any cognitive psych research on “critical thinking”? Any way to test for the capacity? Would it align with a verbal talent or a mathematical one? Can you actually _teach_ critical thinking, like you could teach piano, or Freshman Decomposition? ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-professors-are-you-on-the-watch-list/791059/33 "2017-07-12T22:45:53Z")
> [@Unabashed\_Fascist](#): > > Maybe I’m the odd one out, but I went to college for six years and can’t recall ever being exposed to my instructors political opinions. Even in my liberal arts and poly-sci classes, it seemed like the professors would step on eggshells to avoid even giving the impression of a personal opinion. > > Maybe it’s a management thing, I noticed my university isn’t mentioned anywhere on that website, and it was pretty large (~30,000 Students). I had a colleague who didn’t vote because he wished to remain completely non-partisan. Talk about eggshells. It’s impossible to avoid politics in some fields. Politics is the subject of some fields. The general idea is that you model critical thinking and expect it from your students. Arguments require evidence, etc. I never get complaints that I’m too liberal or that I penalize students for being conservative. In my experience, students long for intelligent discussions of politics. ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-professors-are-you-on-the-watch-list/791059/34 "2017-07-12T22:46:22Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Self-esteem issues much? A university is one of the few places left in American society where there is some freedom to openly discuss ideas and express opinions without fear of retaliation. Really. Please explain this to Ann Coulter with a straight face. Was she given the opportunity to speak at that bastion of free speech UC Berkeley? It is a simple question… was she allowed to actually speak at the engagement she was asked to speak at? If does not matter if you agree or disagree with her views, what is the answer? It is she was not, and this from the top levels of the administration. Then when certain speakers do make it on campus there is concern for their safety. Numerous examples of this if you care to look. One example on the other side of the country at Middlebury. Free speech does not exist on college campus in these times of 2017, it is allowed speech. If we agree with then your allowed to speak, if we disagree with you’re not allowed to speak or if so we will riot. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-professors-are-you-on-the-watch-list/791059/35 "2017-07-12T22:47:15Z")
> [@Unabashed\_Fascist](#): > > Maybe I’m the odd one out, but I went to college for six years and can’t recall ever being exposed to my instructors political opinions. Even in my liberal arts and poly-sci classes, it seemed like the professors would step on eggshells to avoid even giving the impression of a personal opinion. I had a poli-sci prof who was serving in the state legislature at the time. So even if he refrained from mentioning his political positions in class, we all knew what they were and had to ask ourselves, _all else being equal, will I get a better grade by writing a paper that takes this position or that one? And if the guy he’s running against were teaching this class, would it be the other way around?_ Spoiler alert: he’d mention his political positions in class. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-professors-are-you-on-the-watch-list/791059/36 "2017-07-12T22:56:19Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > … The authors further feel they students, alumni, and ordinary citizens have the right to know the political stripes and values of these paid college staff. > > … > > So what do you all think? I think the authors sound like real dumbasses. ---
**Author:** ![Marci\_Al](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47c2d/32.png) [@Marci\_Al](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marci_Al)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-professors-are-you-on-the-watch-list/791059/37 "2017-07-12T22:58:53Z")
IS there an American college that is not a hotbed of liberalism? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-professors-are-you-on-the-watch-list/791059/38 "2017-07-12T23:10:23Z")
Did you guys really worry that much about disagreeing with your professors? Now, I didn’t finish college, but that was more due to finances and life changing events than grades, and I had no problem discussing anything with professors. It seems the ones that I disagreed with the most, were the ones that I learned the most from, and the ones I got the best grades in the class. I did start my college career as a conservative, and probably ended as one too, it was only many years in the job market that made me change my stance on a number of ideologies, so I was arguing with them mostly from a conservative position. I don’t think that they were really the ones to change my mind, and I am quite sure that I didn’t change theirs, but I did learn to look at things from a different perspective, and learned some lessons that at the time I thought were junk, but later realized were quite true and useful. ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-professors-are-you-on-the-watch-list/791059/39 "2017-07-12T23:23:48Z")
> [@Marci\_Al](#): > > IS there an American college that is not a hotbed of liberalism? there are around, but small in number. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-professors-are-you-on-the-watch-list/791059/40 "2017-07-13T00:09:15Z")
I teach at a university, i’m on the political left, and i think the Professor Watchlist is hilarious. It’s a perfect sop to conservatives with a persecution complex, because some of the stuff listed there is egregious enough that almost no-one would defend it, while much of the rest is made up of things that people can reasonably disagree about and/or stuff that isn’t even relevant to the person’s duty as an instructor. And some of it is just complete bullshit, placed there by conservative snowflakes who can’t stand the idea that people disagree with them about something. What is really striking is how few of the examples are directly related to the main professorial duties of teaching and research and campus service. [This woman](http://www.professorwatchlist.org/index.php/watch-list-directory/search-by-name/165-valerie-johnson) is on the list mainly because one of her students, who cited her as an inspiration, stormed the stage of a Milo Yiannopoulos speech. [This woman](http://www.professorwatchlist.org/index.php/watch-list-directory/search-by-name/162-zillah-eisenstein) had the temerity to give a lecture is which she "contended that agriculture was a, ‘capitalist, radicalized patriarchy’ and called the United States a ‘fascist democracy.’ " [This professor](http://www.professorwatchlist.org/index.php/watch-list-directory/search-by-name/71-bettina-aptheker) had the audacity to be raised by Communist parents, to participate in 1960s campus movements, and to teach feminist studies! [This guy](http://www.professorwatchlist.org/index.php/watch-list-directory/search-by-name/260-michael-green) made some political statements on Facebook!!! There are some examples of truly egregious behavior on the site, but a lot of it is penny-ante bullshit, or simply part of the intellectual back-and-forth that conservatives claim to be defending in higher education. If this list constitutes the right’s response to the alleged liberal domination of college campuses, it’s a pretty damning indictment of how little evidence they actually have for how bad things are. > [@Urbanredneck](#): > > For example [THIS GUY](http://www.professorwatchlist.org/index.php/watch-list-directory/search-by-name/307-eric-clanton-3)has been found guilty of assaulting a Trump supporter with a bike lock. However they point out he was only a part timer and has probably lost his job. Not only that, but he wasn’t even employed by the college at the time of the incident. He was, according to the stories i’ve read, only employed when he was a graduate student. So i guess by Professor Watchlist, they mean former grad student who taught a few classes at a community college, who longer works there, and who did something criminal that was completely unrelated to his affiliation with the college. > [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Oh yeah, you damn well better go along with the proff. Or at least not your head, keep your mouth shut, and pretend to. Who knows. Maybe professor leftist will let down their guard, thinking your one of his brainwashed clones and send out a bad tweet or something then you can REALLY let him have it. Not that it will do anything since proffs almost never get fired but at least you can make them squirm and knock them off their high horse. This is hilarious. I’ve said this before on this board, and i’ll repeat it now: You know what the biggest problem for most college professors is? Apathy and lack of preparedness: students who won’t do the reading; students who won’t participate in class; students who just want to do the absolute minimum necessary to get by; and students who simply aren’t ready for the intellectual challenges of college-level work. I know it feeds some people’s insecurities to believe that college teachers are all left wing nutjobs who expect every student to mimic their politics, but it’s just not true. Anyone who’s spent any time arguing with me on this board will know that i am, in fact, a man of the left. But, given a choice between a student who’s an apathetic leftist, and one who is a committed and engaged conservative, i’ll take the latter every time, because it makes class more interesting and shows that the student is doing the work. I don’t consider it my job to produces leftists or liberals or Democrats; it’s my job to improve the reading, analytical, communication and critical thinking skills of my students. I like to challenge the preconceptions of my conservative students, but i like to do exactly the same thing with my liberal and leftist students. And i do this because i find that it makes class more interesting and more useful for me and for them. I take “devil’s advocate” positions on a whole range of topics in my class, in an effort to push the students to think more critically about their opinions and their conclusions. And, whether students agree with me or not on any particular issue, they are going to be pushed to justify their positions. Some years ago, while still in grad school, i was the TA for a course in American Intellectual History. I did all the grading for the class, and some of the highest grades consistently went to a student whose politics i disagreed with strongly, but who supported her positions with clear and cogent arguments that demonstrated a close reading of the sources. The A she earned in that class helped her spend the summer as an intern in the Bush White House. Conversely, about a year later, while teaching at a prestigious art college with a lot of lefty-type students, i gave a failing grade to a student whose every word i agreed with, but who didn’t answer the question. His essay was a long editorial on the problems of conservatism and the Bush administration, but it completely failed to address the question he had been asked to answer, and it made virtually no reference to the class readings. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-professors-are-you-on-the-watch-list/791059.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-professors-are-you-on-the-watch-list/791059.md?page=3)