# "College towns"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 22, 2010, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-towns/526049 "2010-01-22T22:47:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-towns/526049/101 "2010-01-25T22:00:13Z")
> [@](#): > > I think part of the “no college town” phenomenon in Canada has to do with the fact that until 1900 Canada was pretty sparsely settled, except maybe Quebec. Even Ontario didn’t have much in the way of settlement until the early 1800’s. Consequently, the colleges tended to be established near the larger centers before they were larger, since the smaller centers at the time would be a crossroads and two buildings. We don’t seem to have the huge “donor giving to alma mater” tradition back when it would have been important, before WWII. I don’t know… Montana c. 1850 was also pretty sparsely settled (heck, it still is), and while Bozeman did pre-exist Montana State University, it is now very definitely a college town. The student body is something like a third of the population of the town, and then you have to add in all the faculty and staff, then all the places like Kinko’s and assorted bars and coffee-houses that exclusively serve a collegiate clientele, and the technology firms founded by former students, and so on. There are segments of the population who don’t like to _admit_ that Bozeman is dominated by the university (the newspaper, for example, typically has a single page per issue for University-related news), but it’s no less so for that. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-towns/526049/102 "2010-01-25T22:17:50Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > …several in New York: > > Alfred - population 3954 > Alfred University - student body 2300 > Alfred State College - student body 3200 > > Annandale-on-Hudson - population 295 > Bard College - student body 1801 > > Aurora - population 320 > Wells College - student body 630 > > Brockport - population 8103 > SUNY Brockport - student body 8742 > > Delhi - population 2583 > SUNY Delhi - student body 2825 > > Morrisville - population 2148 > SUNY Morrisville - student body 3356 > > Paul Smiths - population 786 > Paul Smith’s College - student body 850 But I don’t think Ontario has anything like these college towns. Student population outnumbering non-student population? Are these full-time students? Are these towns by themselves, or part of larger urban areas? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-towns/526049/103 "2010-01-25T22:46:20Z")
These are genuine towns and genuine colleges. (With the arguable exception of Annandale-on-Hudson. That hamlet, for all practical purposes, is the college. The non-student residents of Annandale-on-Hudson are the employees of the school.) A WAG but maybe the difference is who sets up the colleges. If the need for the college is coming up from the local people then you’re not going to get a college until you have a city large enough to support its student body. But if the college system is being put in place by a higher level of government like a state or nation, then you could see some colleges being built in relatively unpopulated areas with the expectation that students will travel from throughout the state or nation to where the school is at. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-towns/526049/104 "2010-01-26T00:07:14Z")
Another thing that comes into it is the concept of a “land grant” universities. Way back when some states wanted to start a university, but lacked the funds to do so. Funds were lacking, but the states had lots of unclaimed land. So what the did was set aside a huge block of land for the university to fund itself, either by selling or leasing the land. These large blocks of unclaimed land tended to be in rather unpopulated areas. Thus did some towns spring up around colleges, and often the University was landlord to much of the town. A similar trick was used to fund the building of the transcontinental railroad. Railroads were granted a swath of land on each side of the track they built, to sell, lease, or otherwise fund the building of the railway. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-towns/526049/105 "2010-01-26T10:06:55Z")
> [@Kevbo](#): > > Another thing that comes into it is the concept of a “land grant” universities. > > Way back when some states wanted to start a university, but lacked the funds to do so. Funds were lacking, but the states had lots of unclaimed land. So what the did was set aside a huge block of land for the university to fund itself, either by selling or leasing the land. > > These large blocks of unclaimed land tended to be in rather unpopulated areas. Thus did some towns spring up around colleges, and often the University was landlord to much of the town. I think you misunderstand where the land allotted to support land grant schools was located. That land was located throughout the state, not in a big chunk where they placed the school. At least that was the case where I went to school (Washington State University\*) and I’d be real surprised if any other state did things as you describe. In the case of WSU, I believe the town of Pullman actually donated the land that the school sits on. However, unlike many other states, WSU held on to much of the land allocated for its support. I’ve been told that much of it is forested, which means it can’t be near the school. Pullman is in the middle of a sea of wheat and barley with nary a forest for many miles around. - Go Cougs!\*\* \*\* obligatory cheer whenever the school is mentioned ---
**Author:** ![UncleFred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f0a364/32.png) [@UncleFred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleFred)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-towns/526049/106 "2010-01-26T12:27:07Z")
[QUOTE=Caffeine.addict;12036174 [Williamsburg, VA] ([Williamsburg, Virginia - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williamsburg,_Virginia)) is interesting in that the students compose a large chunk of the population but the businesses in town aren’t really geared towards the students. Williamsburg has an approximate population of 12,000 and the [College of William and Mary](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_College_of_William_%26_Mary) has approximately 7900 students. However, it seems like for the most part, the students stay on campus and rarely venture out into town. There were only three bars that had students as their main clientele. The other difference is that most of the shopping centers and commerce was located away from the school and didn’t really cater to the students. [/QUOTE] Williamsburg is a bit unique in that there is a ‘main atrraction’ there of Colonial Williamsburg which brings in a lot of tourism (as do the ‘nearby’ beaches and Busch Gardens.) Also, the temperate climate has brought a surge in retirees moving there. ---
**Author:** ![UncleFred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f0a364/32.png) [@UncleFred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleFred)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-towns/526049/107 "2010-01-26T12:30:55Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Other college towns include Morrisville NY (home of SUNY Morrisville), Canton, NY (St. Lawrence University and SUNY Canton), Geneseo, NY (SUNY Geneseo), and Durham, NY (University of New Hampshire). In all cases, the students outnumber (or come close to outnumbering) the permanent residents, and the town’s economy is based upon the college. Also small-ish Hamilton NY is adjacent to Morrisville and has Colgate University. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-towns/526049/108 "2010-01-26T12:40:22Z")
In the UK, I think Cambridge epitomizes the concept of a university town. It’s completely dominated by the university, and probably a sizable amount of land within the town is owned by the colleges (I know Trinity has a massive amount of land around Cambridge). ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-towns/526049/109 "2010-01-26T15:16:22Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > The Prairies were pretty much deserted before the big settlement push in the 1890’s and early 1900’s following the Canadian-Pacific Railroad. Even more reason to put a college near the bigger centers; you need to be near a railroad stop. As pointed out elsewhere, you need to have the people to support the college, and housing for them, etc. Unless your college can afford to build housing for the maids, groundskeepers, stable boys, blacksmith, etc - not to mention their own supply warehouse etc. - you needed to be near some moderately-sized town. True enough. There was never any question about where the University of Alberta would be located; it was going to be in or near one of the province’s largest cities. As a result of a little splitting hairs over the wording of exactly where the university was to be located (“a city south of the Saskatchewan River,” which got Calgary’s hopes up; but which actually meant the then-city of Strathcona, which is now a part of Edmonton), Edmonton ended up being both the provincial capital and the home of the University of Alberta. Regardless, there were certainly no plans to put the university in the middle of nowhere and expect a college town to grow around it. ---
**Author:** ![lexi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lexi/32/6806_2.png) [@lexi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lexi)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-towns/526049/110 "2010-01-26T16:29:02Z")
Spoons, isn’t Lethbridge, Alberta where you are located considered a college town. Between the U of L and LCC - I am sure the student population makes for more than 20% of the population and are in the top employers in the small city. Not much more is around there, since coal mining died off and farming & ranching are being shunned by the younger generations. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-towns/526049/111 "2010-01-26T18:25:20Z")
> [@lexi](#): > > Spoons, isn’t Lethbridge, Alberta where you are located considered a college town. Between the U of L and LCC - I am sure the student population makes for more than 20% of the population and are in the top employers in the small city. > > Not much more is around there, since coal mining died off and farming & ranching are being shunned by the younger generations. I wouldn’t call Lethbridge a college town. Yes, we do have U of L and the LCC, but the city’s population is about 85,000–the university has about 8000 students, and LCC has about 7000, which isn’t quite 20%. Many of the students (though certainly not all) are drawn from the southern Alberta area; and to them, U of L and LCC are local schools, requiring a daily commute as opposed to living on campus. There are student residences, but AFAIK, no requirement to live on campus; so to many students, I would imagine things aren’t much different from when they were in high school: home is where it has always been so the area is familiar, friends and relatives are local, activities take place both on- and off-campus and can include those that are participated in by few or no other students at all. The vibe I’ve got from this thread (and I admit I could be misunderstanding) is that a college town grows up around a school where most students come from somewhere else, and the only things to do are on campus with the people met at school. The city predates the university and the college, certainly. Coal is no longer part of the local economy, but the city itself has a surprisingly strong agricultural and industrial economic base–if my clients are any indication, there is still a big interest in agriculture from young people who are carrying on the family farm. The industrial sector produces a variety of goods, and the city actively tries (and sometimes succeeds) to attract companies that will employ even more Lethbridgers. And of course, the railway is still an important contributor to the local economy. But the point is that if the U of L and LCC were to close up shop tomorrow, the city’s economy would take a hit, yes; but not to the same extent as–to cite an example made earlier in the thread–Oshawa, Ontario has suffered from the loss of GM. If the city could survive without the schools, even with some difficulty, then I wouldn’t call Lethbridge a college town. ---
**Author:** ![lexi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lexi/32/6806_2.png) [@lexi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lexi)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-towns/526049/112 "2010-01-26T18:50:04Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > I wouldn’t call Lethbridge a college town. Yes, we do have U of L and the LCC, but the city’s population is about 85,000–the university has about 8000 students, and LCC has about 7000, which isn’t quite 20%. Many of the students (though certainly not all) are drawn from the southern Alberta area; and to them, U of L and LCC are local schools, requiring a daily commute as opposed to living on campus. There are student residences, but AFAIK, no requirement to live on campus; so to many students, I would imagine things aren’t much different from when they were in high school: home is where it has always been so the area is familiar, friends and relatives are local, activities take place both on- and off-campus and can include those that are participated in by few or no other students at all. The vibe I’ve got from this thread (and I admit I could be misunderstanding) is that a college town grows up around a school where most students come from somewhere else, and the only things to do are on campus with the people met at school. > > The city predates the university and the college, certainly. Coal is no longer part of the local economy, but the city itself has a surprisingly strong agricultural and industrial economic base–if my clients are any indication, there is still a big interest in agriculture from young people who are carrying on the family farm. The industrial sector produces a variety of goods, and the city actively tries (and sometimes succeeds) to attract companies that will employ even more Lethbridgers. And of course, the railway is still an important contributor to the local economy. But the point is that if the U of L and LCC were to close up shop tomorrow, the city’s economy would take a hit, yes; but not to the same extent as–to cite an example made earlier in the thread–Oshawa, Ontario has suffered from the loss of GM. If the city could survive without the schools, even with some difficulty, then I wouldn’t call Lethbridge a college town. My family was in the Lethbridge area with the earliest settlers coming in about 1900 and the latest in the late 1940’s - so in a way it is still “home”, at least South Lethbridge, and around Picture Butte and Shaughnessey and even Cardston & Pincher Creek. I was born in the area and know the south side like the back of my hand. True - many people come from the area, but I know quite a few people like myself, who’s parents were from the Lethbridge area - and went to U of L because their parents did (and of course being a smaller school was less stressful on an undergrad level) - and their parents left the farms & the ranches the moment the degree got in their hands and nobody seems eager to move back. There are members of the “old” families still in the area, but it seems there are more people from “elsewhere” to me when I visit there. ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-towns/526049/113 "2010-01-26T20:04:10Z")
> [@TheFifthYear](#): > > :rolleyes:Except for the upper midwest, great plains states, atlantic coast, and west coast. I’ve lived in Baton Rouge and Madison, WI and they definitely have different feels in terms of sports fanaticism. At LSU the campus essentially shuts down for the weekend and is invaded with tailgaters. Don’t bother to try and work on a game weekend; you won’t have a place to park because the lots are blocked off for the tailgaters. Don’t bother with the library either because it won’t be open on game day. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-towns/526049/114 "2010-01-26T22:44:31Z")
> [@lexi](#): > > True - many people come from the area, but I know quite a few people like myself, who’s parents were from the Lethbridge area - and went to U of L because their parents did (and of course being a smaller school was less stressful on an undergrad level) - and their parents left the farms & the ranches the moment the degree got in their hands and nobody seems eager to move back. Fair enough. Of course, my view may be a little coloured because I’m here, along with the people who stayed. > [@](#): > > There are members of the “old” families still in the area, but it seems there are more people from “elsewhere” to me when I visit there. Hey, I resemble that remark! 🙂 (I’m originally from Toronto, via Calgary.) ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-towns/526049/115 "2010-01-27T02:16:40Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > Over in [this thread about the cost of living in different locations](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=548591), **kunilou** mentions living in a “college town”. It’s clear from the context that the college town is small; everything was ‘within walking distance’, and the cost of living was much lower. > > I get the impression that this is a town about the size of Bancroft, Ontario (population 5000), where you can rent a house for $500/month, while I’m paying $700/month for a zero-bedroom apartment three blocks from the sewage-treatment plant in Toronto. > > But my question isn’t about cost of living. I’m curious about these “college towns”. Are we speaking of a town where the primary industry, the reason for the town existing at all, is the college? (And to be clear, I presume we mean four-year degree-granting university here, not community college.) > > I’m scratching my head trying to think of an equivalent in Ontario, and coming up blank. Our colleges and universities are established in existing towns and cities. Quite small towns may have community-college facilities (Bancroft has a campus of Loyalist College, for example), but they weren’t founded to house the college. > > Were towns founded in the US specifically to house new colleges? If so, why? I think of a college town where the population of the university is equal to or greater than the population of the town and where the activities/culture/environment/public perception of the town is largely defined by the presence of the university. A few that come immediately to my mind are Starkville MS (home of MS State U) and Auburn AL (home of Auburn U). Corvallis Oregon (home of Oregon State U) is another. But there are many examples. But I also offer Boston as a counter example. The combined populations of the universities in Boston rival the population of the city proper, but the culture/history of Boston is independent of the universities. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-towns/526049.md?page=5)