# College/Universities explained... please. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 20, 2010, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-universities-explained-please/564888 "2010-12-20T23:42:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-universities-explained-please/564888/61 "2010-12-22T01:48:27Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > Hm, then what would you call specialized post-graduate schools, like medical school or business school? Medical school = University. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-universities-explained-please/564888/62 "2010-12-22T02:01:39Z")
Note that most US law and medical schools are also part of a larger university. It’s just that for some reason we tend to distinguish postgraduate professional schools from their institution, but not regular graduate programs. One might be “in law school” at Yale, but will generally be referred to as a “graduate student at Yale” if they are studying for a PhD in, say, anthropology. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-universities-explained-please/564888/63 "2010-12-22T02:39:08Z")
> [@yabob](#): > > Note that most US law and medical schools are also part of a larger university. It’s just that for some reason we tend to distinguish postgraduate professional schools from their institution, but not regular graduate programs. One might be “in law school” at Yale, but will generally be referred to as a “graduate student at Yale” if they are studying for a PhD in, say, anthropology. Law and medicine are usually their own schools of the university, whereas most PhD programs are administered by one of the larger schools. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-universities-explained-please/564888/64 "2010-12-22T03:35:13Z")
> [@sisu](#): > > Medical school = University. Exactly. There’ll be a School (or Faculty) of Medicine or Law or Humanities or whatever at the university, and if you’re studying at a postgraduate level (as I was) then you’re still going to the same University as the undergraduate students- you’re just taking different classes. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-universities-explained-please/564888/65 "2010-12-22T03:48:24Z")
Well, I understand that “school” the general, common noun isn’t commonly used for post-secondary education outside the United States, there are institutions that use the word in their names, such as the London School of Economics. And, Kyla, in much of the world, physicians and lawyers need not go beyond a bachelor’s degree, such as M.B.B.S. (bachelor of medicine and bachelor of surgery) or LL.B. (bachelor of laws). Those who get bachelor’s degrees at Cambridge and Oxford automatically get master’s degrees without any further study or work, so graduates of those places all have higher degrees without ever having to say that they’re currently a student at a particular institution. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-universities-explained-please/564888/66 "2010-12-22T04:14:34Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Well, I understand that “school” the general, common noun isn’t commonly used for post-secondary education outside the United States, there are institutions that use the word in their names, such as the London School of Economics. . . . which is, confusingly, a **college** of the **University** of London. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-universities-explained-please/564888/67 "2010-12-22T05:12:46Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > . . . which is, confusingly, a **college** of the **University** of London. Who’s largest _constituent college_ is known as **University College, London**. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-universities-explained-please/564888/68 "2010-12-22T05:39:01Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Exactly. There’ll be a School (or Faculty) of Medicine or Law or Humanities or whatever at the university, and if you’re studying at a postgraduate level (as I was) then you’re still going to the same University as the undergraduate students- you’re just taking different classes. That sounds exactly how it works in the US. Now I’m confused because it sounds like you’re pointing out a difference, but I’m not clear on what it is. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-universities-explained-please/564888/69 "2010-12-22T06:57:39Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > That sounds exactly how it works in the US. Now I’m confused because it sounds like you’re pointing out a difference, but I’m not clear on what it is. Law and medicine programs outside the US are generally bachelor’s level, and don’t require anything beyond the local equivalent of a high school diploma for admission. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-universities-explained-please/564888/70 "2010-12-22T09:16:31Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > Law and medicine programs outside the US are generally bachelor’s level, and don’t require anything beyond the local equivalent of a high school diploma for admission. Outside the US _and Canada_, that is. Nitpicky, sure, but it perhaps should be said that Canadian lawyers and physicians generally follow the same educational path with the same admission requirements to a professional school as their American counterparts. Uncommon compared to the most of the rest of the world, perhaps, but the US is not unique in this regard. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-universities-explained-please/564888/71 "2010-12-22T14:19:31Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > That sounds exactly how it works in the US. Now I’m confused because it sounds like you’re pointing out a difference, but I’m not clear on what it is. Because you don’t tend to say “I’m studying at the Australian University Law School”, you’d say “I’m studying Law at the Australian University”; there’s no distinction drawn between “I’m at Uni” and “I’m at Law School”- it’s taken as read that if you’re studying Law you’re at Uni and the Law Faculty is part of the Uni anyway. Also, to get into Law, you don’t do a couple of years of undergraduate study then say “I’m going to become a Law-talking Person!” and apply to study Law; provided your grades from High School are good enough, you just apply to the University to study Law and if you’re accepted, then you’re good to go straight from High School. And people here don’t usually say “I’m at school” when referring to university, either, FWIW. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-universities-explained-please/564888/72 "2010-12-22T14:21:51Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > That sounds exactly how it works in the US. Now I’m confused because it sounds like you’re pointing out a difference, but I’m not clear on what it is. In the U.S., a university’s law school is a separate unit that awards degrees higher than a bachelor’s degree. In other countries, a law department is just another department, like a biology department or math department, which has mostly undergraduates. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-universities-explained-please/564888/73 "2010-12-22T16:28:09Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > You make this seem like some kind of conveyor belt! I’m sure you know that you don’t have to be 18-20 years old to go to Community College, and you don’t have to go to Community College when you’re 18-20 years old, either. Same with undergraduate degrees, etc. Yes, that’s the point of the line you cut off “ **Generally** , in the US:” ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-universities-explained-please/564888/74 "2010-12-22T17:37:39Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Because you don’t tend to say “I’m studying at the Australian University Law School”, you’d say “I’m studying Law at the Australian University”; there’s no distinction drawn between “I’m at Uni” and “I’m at Law School”- it’s taken as read that if you’re studying Law you’re at Uni and the Law Faculty is part of the Uni anyway. > > Also, to get into Law, you don’t do a couple of years of undergraduate study then say “I’m going to become a Law-talking Person!” and apply to study Law; provided your grades from High School are good enough, you just apply to the University to study Law and if you’re accepted, then you’re good to go straight from High School. > > And people here don’t usually say “I’m at school” when referring to university, either, FWIW. Ah, okay. I’m aware of the facts of this, there’s just something about the way you worded it that confused me. I think we were talking past each other. Sorry! BTW, Americans don’t usually say “I’m at school,” either. Unless maybe someone calls them on the phone and asks where they happen to physically be at the moment. We’d say “I’m _in_ school.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-universities-explained-please/564888/75 "2010-12-22T17:37:46Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Outside the US _and Canada_, that is. Nitpicky, sure, but it perhaps should be said that Canadian lawyers and physicians generally follow the same educational path with the same admission requirements to a professional school as their American counterparts. Uncommon compared to the most of the rest of the world, perhaps, but the US is not unique in this regard. So when you went to law school, you already needed an undergraduate degree? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-universities-explained-please/564888/76 "2010-12-22T17:57:07Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > So when you went to law school, you already needed an undergraduate degree? Yes, in the United States and Canada, law (like medicine) is a post-graduate subject. You have to already have a bachelor’s degree. So it’s a total of seven years (4 undergraduate + 3 law school) before you qualify to sit for a bar exam. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-universities-explained-please/564888/77 "2010-12-22T18:36:14Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > In the U.S., a university’s law school is a separate unit that awards degrees higher than a bachelor’s degree. In other countries, a law department is just another department, like a biology department or math department, which has mostly undergraduates. However departments treat graduate students much differently from undergrads. For undergrads the admission decision is made by the school, for graduate students by the individual department, just as is the case for law school. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-universities-explained-please/564888/78 "2010-12-22T18:45:36Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > So when you went to law school, you already needed an undergraduate degree? **Acsenray** has it correct–you need a bachelor’s degree or higher first. Mind, under certain circumstances in Canada (I don’t know about the US), a student may be admitted before completing a bachelor’s degree; but this is quite rare, and certainly at least two years of study towards a bachelor’s are required. I’ll add that we have an extra educational year after completing law school, during which we “article”; that is, apprentice in a law office under the supervision of a lawyer, while taking the bar courses in preparation for the bar exam. It’s a long haul and a tough grind! ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-universities-explained-please/564888/79 "2010-12-22T19:08:45Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > So when you went to law school, you already needed an undergraduate degree? Yes. Not only that, it’s not required, or even considered beneficial, to take law classes at the undergraduate level beforehand. (majoring in things like history, philosophy, political science/Government, and Journalism are typical, but you can major in anything). Law School professors, while employed by the University, do not teach undergraduates except in rare cases. ---
**Author:** ![andiepandie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7ba0ec/32.png) [@andiepandie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andiepandie)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-universities-explained-please/564888/80 "2010-12-22T19:11:50Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > **Acsenray** has it correct–you need a bachelor’s degree or higher first. Mind, under certain circumstances in Canada (I don’t know about the US), a student may be admitted before completing a bachelor’s degree; but this is quite rare, and **certainly at least two years of study towards a bachelor’s are required**. I’m sure that’s true 99.9% of the time, but a year or two ago I remember reading about a woman in her late-20s who didn’t even have a high school diploma, let alone any university education, who was admitted to Osgoode. It was a big enough story to make the front page of the Toronto Star, but that seemed to have more to do with the fact that she’s also a former sex worker who spent a good chunk of time living in group homes, and had a special needs kid of her own in her teens that got taken away a few years later by CAS, etc. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-universities-explained-please/564888.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/college-universities-explained-please/564888.md?page=5)