# Colleges and enforcement of alcohol rules **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 2, 2014, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-and-enforcement-of-alcohol-rules/700143 "2014-10-02T00:37:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-and-enforcement-of-alcohol-rules/700143/21 "2014-10-02T17:34:10Z")
Speaking of high grade BS, I am unimpressed by the argument that regulation of drinking only leads to more drinking (for instance, the claim that binge drinking will be brought under control if the drinking age is lowered from 21 to 18). :dubious: Drinkers on and off campus often do have a sense of entitlement, minimizing or ignoring the noise, mess and hazards to others that their behavior sometimes poses. When I was in college, some students tried to push through authorization of a pub to be located on the basement floor of the dorm I lived in. When I put in the request for my room the previous year I had no idea that loud drunks would be coming in and out of the dorm. Arguing on that basis had little traction with pub supporters. It might have been interesting to point out that since the founders of the college over a century earlier had insisted (and built into the charter) an absolute prohibition on alcohol on campus, pursuing legal action on that basis might have had untoward results for pub enthusiasts. Fortunately construction was put off until the following year after I’d moved elsewhere. > [@DSeid](#): > > My number 3 son Warner Oland? Is that you? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-and-enforcement-of-alcohol-rules/700143/22 "2014-10-02T17:34:42Z")
**Ruken** , As the one paying the bills I am not paying them to provide an oasis artificially free of them either. **Paintcharge** , no they are the only ones for whom the being told to stop and being written up actually has any real potential consequence. You are suspended from the team if you have three write-ups. Otherwise nothing actually happens of note. Just someone in authority telling them to stop. I’d imagine that multiple write-ups would result in a visit to the Dean and that steadfast refusal to comply with the campus security officer’s directive could result in the police being called in and a real consequence. But I am not aware of that ever happening. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-and-enforcement-of-alcohol-rules/700143/23 "2014-10-02T17:44:01Z")
**Jackmanni** , as always an allusion is not lost on you. It is actually relevant. I have some experience hearing about the alcohol-centric social life of college from my older two. They just found it boring. Perhaps the fact they had been allowed to have a beer or a glass of wine with dinner every so often in our own household helped diminish the binge drinking allure, I don’t know. And my second oldest was no straight arrow. But he knew that there were risks to breaking laws and when back at home he was stopped for looking as if he was too young to be out when he was and searched and was found to have a baggie containing some remnant of pot in it and as result had to go to court and be saddled with a community service penalty, he did not rail against the oppressive system denying him his rights. He was happy that the public service option could get it as something other than a criminal record item. Actually felt a bit self conscious of privlege thinking that if he was poor and Black he might not have gotten that option. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-and-enforcement-of-alcohol-rules/700143/24 "2014-10-02T17:48:13Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > I’m not paying them to enforce laws. Actually, in some ways you are - [In loco parentis - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_loco_parentis) ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-and-enforcement-of-alcohol-rules/700143/25 "2014-10-02T17:56:58Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Actually, in some ways you are - [In loco parentis - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_loco_parentis) Is that relevant to college? From your link: > [@](#): > > Though _in loco parentis_ continues to apply to primary and secondary education in the U.S., application of the concept has largely disappeared in higher education. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-and-enforcement-of-alcohol-rules/700143/26 "2014-10-02T18:27:58Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Plus at the same time they tell the colleges students that they are now adults and should have the right to do whatever they want with their bodies. Except of course to drink. > > What pissed me off about being hypocritical was that when I was in college they would sell beer at the games, they would allow alumni to have keggers, and would serve alcohol at university functions - but yet students can’t drink??? Students aren’t 21. Being an adult works both ways you know. Students aren’t granted immunity from laws just because they live in a dorm. The main challenge is that in any college, roughly 1/4 of the students can legally drink and the remaining 3/4 can’t. But because they are comingled, it’s effectively impossible to prevent underage drinking without completing banning it from campus. What’s hypocritical or at least highly inconsistent is the mixed message that colleges send regarding underage drinking. I went to a huge party school (the parties were huge…the school was only a couple thousand students). The main social hub was our Greek fraternity and sorority system. Every weekend, at least some of the 35 fraternities held Animal House style parties. That is to say, open parties in a big mansion style house in a giant room with a bar, sound system and a drain in the floor where we hand out been in red Solo cups of beer to a hundred partiers like you see in the movies. The campus would make the fraternities jump through various hoops. Parties had to be registered with Student Services. Parties could only be on weekends between 7 and 9 for cocktails or 10 and 2 for beer (yes, we threw cocktail parties where we got dressed up like little preppy J Crew people). We had to make guest lists and check IDs and have the bar separated from the main party area (typically with a movable chicken-wire enclosure). Kegs were banned my sophomore year so everyone just bought cases of beer by the pallet (which was easier anyway since you didn’t have to deal with keg returns). Some ideas like school issued “Over 21” wristbands or the bar partitions came and went as the fraternities just flooded the campus with wristbands and the bar partitions had a penchant for toppling over in the middle of the party. Also because we didn’t have bar licenses, we basically had to give away alcohol for free. But really all of these exercises were stupid. Basically all we did was have a couple guys go through the motion of pretended to check IDs or put together guest lists of random and made-up names. We’d provide some rudimentary security to prevent fights or damage to the house or maybe kick townies out if they looked too underage or sketchy. But for the most part, if you came to a fraternity house at my school, even regardless if they were actively throwing a party, our particular social decorum dictates that we will typically give you a beer. Anyhow, the point is that the school could have chosen to shut these parties down any time they want. Everyone knows that underage kids are drinking there. Not just college students but sometimes local high school kids as well. And for people who say “it would just go underground”, sure there was also a rich and diverse “off campus” party scene. But since those were in off campus private townhouses not affiliated with the school, you were now subject to the real adult world with real adult consequences - actual local cops issuing real tickets and real arrests instead of campus security and an afternoon in Student Court. Adult neighbors who would call said police. Not to mention angry landlords who would keep your deposit if you fucked up their property. So yeah, a lot of it is the campus turning a blind eye thanks to the whining of over-privileged rich kids and winks of alumni who want a place to come back to reminisce about their not so glorious days. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-and-enforcement-of-alcohol-rules/700143/27 "2014-10-02T19:03:14Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Is that relevant to college? From your link: Hrmm, good point. I would think it applies somewhat to minors (I was under 18 when I went to college) but it may not be relevant in this case. However, I’ve seen plenty of lawsuits against colleges for injuries suffered from alcohol consumption on campus. So from a purely financial standpoint, the college has an interest in keeping things safe. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-and-enforcement-of-alcohol-rules/700143/28 "2014-10-02T20:09:25Z")
Oh **Ruken** in terms of your concern that the college is spending money to enforce the rules … the damage done by drunk students is substantial. Custodians are called in clean up the vomitus and even one week end one drunk who decided to take a shit in the dorm stairway. Let alone the actual vandalism some do when drunk. And the runs to the hospital with the EMTs. In dollar terms there is little doubt that cutting down binge drinking will save the college money. The incident that provoked action was not either of the deaths in recent years that were widely believed to be alcohol related though (you can imagine a story that the alcohol was not a major factor) or the costs of the damage and custodial fees (they get paid minimum wage I am sure), but that it spilled over into the town and a student got arrested for hurting an older person by virtue of being an ugly drunk. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-and-enforcement-of-alcohol-rules/700143/29 "2014-10-02T21:58:51Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Oh **Ruken** in terms of your concern that the college is spending money to enforce the rules … the damage done by drunk students is substantial. Custodians are called in clean up the vomitus and even one week end one drunk who decided to take a shit in the dorm stairway. Let alone the actual vandalism some do when drunk. And the runs to the hospital with the EMTs. In dollar terms there is little doubt that cutting down binge drinking will save the college money. The incident that provoked action was not either of the deaths in recent years that were widely believed to be alcohol related though (you can imagine a story that the alcohol was not a major factor) or the costs of the damage and custodial fees (they get paid minimum wage I am sure), but that it spilled over into the town and a student got arrested for hurting an older person by virtue of being an ugly drunk. You are absolutely correct. There is a cost to student drinking. I am fine with that. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-and-enforcement-of-alcohol-rules/700143/30 "2014-10-02T22:14:48Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > You are absolutely correct. There is a cost to student drinking. I am fine with that. One wrongful death lawsuit would dwarf any custodial costs. And hurt the reputation of the school, reducing alumni donations and applications. Having students get hurt, do illegal things, or get themselves killed is bad for business. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-and-enforcement-of-alcohol-rules/700143/31 "2014-10-02T22:21:46Z")
Any college student who is not smart enough to avoid getting caught drinking underage shouldn’t be in college anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-and-enforcement-of-alcohol-rules/700143/32 "2014-10-02T22:28:03Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > One wrongful death lawsuit would dwarf any custodial costs. And hurt the reputation of the school, reducing alumni donations and applications. Having students get hurt, do illegal things, or get themselves killed is bad for business. I accept that risk, and also support laws that would hinder such lawsuits. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-and-enforcement-of-alcohol-rules/700143/33 "2014-10-03T01:51:40Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > I accept that risk, and also support laws that would hinder such lawsuits. Y’know, I am usually not a big fan of lawsuits, but they do serve a role. A person who knowingly allows their teen to host a party for other teens during which alcohol will be served bears some culpability. A college that creates an environment in whuch students are protected from the real world’s legal consequences of breaking the law and which does nothing meaningful to limit the activity should also similarly bear some cuplability for the consequence of their conscious inaction. ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-and-enforcement-of-alcohol-rules/700143/34 "2014-10-03T02:26:49Z")
I don’t agree with the wikipedia claim that this notion has largely disappeared in higher education with regard to alcohol and drug use. It’s been making a steady comeback, nationally, over the past 15 years for the very reason that lawsuits are more probable and colleges don’t care to assume that risk (both the financial risk and the PR risk). There is still plenty of drinking at college, and most colleges have chosen to focus on the most problematic areas related to alcohol - binge drinking, drinking and driving, hazing, tailgating, that sort of thing. Expect to see more of this now that colleges are under a federal mandate to more strictly monitor and control environments where one tends to see sexual harassment and assault as it relates to alcohol consumption and lack of consent. One tactic that many schools have adopted to address the issue of “driving it underground” are Good Samaritan policies – if students come forward to seek necessary medical attention or some other intervention for themselves or a peer, they are exempted from the usual judicial sanction or punishment related to drinking (although, in truth, usually there is an education sanction, but students don’t worry so much about those). Where I work, when we first started that, there was some speculation that people would try to game the system to avoid getting in trouble, but honestly, it’s really worked out quite well the way it was intended. My completely practical opinion is that colleges know, and don’t particularly care, if groups of students are gathering in dorm rooms or other personal spaces to have some drinks and watch the game/play music/poker night/have sex or whatever else they are doing. It’s when the alcohol consumption becomes apparent to the larger campus community that the school is going to intervene and crack down on the students involved. If you’re dumb enough to get caught, you’re too dumb to be doing whatever it was you had been doing with alcohol in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-and-enforcement-of-alcohol-rules/700143/35 "2014-10-03T03:27:49Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > **AK84** your next door neighbors in India have some even dumber liquor laws. The drinking age in some states is _25_, and some states ban alcohol sales entirely (even more used to). :dubious: Three (two of which are very small) Indian states have prohibition, three states and two cities have the legal drinking age set at 25. The remaining 22 or so states are evenly split between 18 and 21. And I’m thoroughly tickled that you’re sanctimoniously pointing this dumbness out to someone who lives in a country where ~96% of the population cannot legally consume alcohol, but 4% can, thus providing the most perfect setup for a black market ever devised by man. Are you taking the piss out of poor **AK84**? Because that’s more subtle than I’d ever have given you credit for. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-and-enforcement-of-alcohol-rules/700143/36 "2014-10-03T04:42:48Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > A smarter alcohol culture in general would be great, but that’s outside a school’s sphere of influence. This is why I favor campus bars and parties where students showing ID could come in and have a drink. This way things could be kept in control. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-and-enforcement-of-alcohol-rules/700143/37 "2014-10-03T04:51:53Z")
Colleges nudge-nudge, wink-wink rules and laws all the time. Think about how supposedly pot was or is illegal but they did nothing to stop those events where all the students go onto a field and light up a joint together. Or what about laws about public decency yet they allow some serious violations like this one: [http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/4099633-418/northwestern-defends-live-sex-demo-on-campus.html#.VC4pq1dOmeo](http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/4099633-418/northwestern-defends-live-sex-demo-on-campus.html#.VC4pq1dOmeo) where they had this live sex demonstration. And this by paid staff! ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-and-enforcement-of-alcohol-rules/700143/38 "2014-10-03T04:55:54Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > [This page](http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohol-health/special-populations-co-occurring-disorders/college-drinking) from the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism says that “1,825 college students between the ages of 18 and 24 die each year from alcohol-related unintentional injuries.” I think the authorities are trying to teach the student to learn their limits and to drink responsibly. Trying to stamp out all underage drinking is just going to drive it underground, where kids are going to be afraid to bring someone who has drunk too much to the hospital. You do realize that there are about 20 million college students in the US so take 1846, divided by 20 million and that comes to about .00923%. That is less than zero and I dont know how much lower you can get a number than zero. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-and-enforcement-of-alcohol-rules/700143/39 "2014-10-03T05:09:17Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > You do realize that there are about 20 million college students in the US so take 1846, divided by 20 million and that comes to about .00923%. > > That is less than zero and I dont know how much lower you can get a number than zero. What? .00923% is .0000923 more than zero. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-and-enforcement-of-alcohol-rules/700143/40 "2014-10-03T13:55:33Z")
It’s roughly a 9/100,000 mortality rate for the population. [Total mortality rate](http://nahic.ucsf.edu/downloads/Mortality.pdf) for young adults is about 60/100,000 of which 31% are due to MVAs, 15% homicides, and 11% suicide. 9/100,000 _is_ a significant (yes, nonzero) number for a young adult population, about 15% of the total risk of death for the age group. This is an age group that doesn’t die much and who represent many future years of life. Other risks associated with college binge drinking culture: > [@](#): > > … Assault: More than 690,000 students between the ages of 18 and 24 are assaulted by another student who has been drinking. > > Sexual Abuse: More than 97,000 students between the ages of 18 and 24 are victims of alcohol-related sexual assault or date rape. > > Injury: 599,000 students between the ages of 18 and 24 receive unintentional injuries while under the influence of alcohol. … The alcohol does not assault, rape, choke on vomitus, or fall down stairwells and off porches; people do. (When underage drinking is illegal only the drunks will have alcohol. :)) But the problems facilitated by college alcohol abuse _are_ serious. That however is not my issue here and I express no opinion on the issue of alcohol-free campuses or on whether a lower legal drinking age would cause more problems or prevent them, be they fine debates to have. My issue is with the no tongue-in-cheek “[Fight for your Right to Party!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ny997LNZ9zw)” attitude. The concept that being social _requires_ being drunk and that college should explicitly be a time and place free from the rules that apply to the rest of society, facilitated by a conscious inattention by the college powers that be. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-and-enforcement-of-alcohol-rules/700143.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-and-enforcement-of-alcohol-rules/700143.md?page=3)