# Colleges Surveilling Students **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 24, 2019, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-surveilling-students/845354 "2019-12-24T18:05:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-surveilling-students/845354/1 "2019-12-24T18:05:14Z")
There was an interesting article today in The New York Times. Essentially, many major universities track their students smartphones all the time. Some 1.5m students. The justification is data. In theory, it makes it easy to tell when students are in class, are late or away. It can monitor when students are not leaving their dorms or going to the cafeteria. Students can thus be monitored for signs of depression, anxiety or eating disorders. And parents can be happier knowing that their adult children are attending class. Athletes require a certain amount of class time and this can also be looked at. Some professors say it improves attendance and behaviour, since students know they are tracked. Some students complain the data is unreliable and professors trust the data more than students if they say they are in class but the system says they are not. Many complain they are adults and this monitoring intrudes on their privacy. Most say they did not consent to this when they signed up for campus wi-fi, and this normalizes surveillance. Students who opt out are allegedly demarginalized. Some questions. 1. Lack of meaningful consent, irrespective of data usefulness, would seem to be an enormous legal risk. Especially in the US. Why is this true, or not true? 2. Of course there are less intrusive ways of checking class attendance or adjustment to student life. Are these preferable? 3. It has been claimed rates of depression and anxiety are increasing. This has been blamed on increasing screen time, less “in person” social interaction, and helicopter parenting. Parenting is a very difficult task and I am not prepared to criticize during a period of considerable social and technological change. But is increased regimentation healthy, or does it increase mood disorders? ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-surveilling-students/845354/2 "2019-12-24T18:13:53Z")
I hadn’t heard of this, but as a college professor, I think it’s appalling. (It’s also understandable, since institutions are basically incentivized to retain students at all costs – regardless of whether the means they use to achieve this are good for the student.) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-surveilling-students/845354/3 "2019-12-24T18:45:21Z")
Welcome to the 21st century! Please enjoy your stay! ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-surveilling-students/845354/4 "2019-12-24T18:54:04Z")
Got a link even if it’s paywalled? Without more information, this sounds like tin foil hat paranoia about what ‘could’ happen. I’ll have to check the MyFSU app, I think it did have an opt in feature to allow tracking, but that was only for campus safety. I can’t imagine the FSU gods are tracking an alumnus 1500 miles away from Tallahassee. Tracking if someone’s in class? Again that sounds odd. As a political science major, it wasn’t uncommon for the professor to say there’s no lecture Thursday but go to the statehouse and watch a committee hearing or go visit a party headquarters. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-surveilling-students/845354/5 "2019-12-24T19:01:00Z")
I was mistaken. It is in today’s (Dec. 24) Washington Post, in an article titled “Colleges are turning students phones into surveillance machines”. I have a subscription, and apologize for not linking it. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-surveilling-students/845354/6 "2019-12-24T19:22:29Z")
> [@The Washington Post](#): > > When Syracuse University freshmen walk into professor Jeff Rubin’s Introduction to Information Technologies class, seven small Bluetooth beacons hidden around the Grant Auditorium lecture hall connect with an app on their smartphones and boost their “attendance points.” > > And when they skip class? The SpotterEDU app sees that, too, logging their absence into a campus database that tracks them over time and can sink their grade. It also alerts Rubin, who later contacts students to ask where they’ve been. His 340-person lecture has never been so full. :dubious: “Where was I, professor? Why, I was attending your class, of course. Naturally, when I’m in class I always switch off my phone or put it in airplane mode–to do otherwise would be disrespectful.” [del]Big[/del] Little Brothers Are Watching. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-surveilling-students/845354/7 "2019-12-24T19:54:07Z")
Found the article and it’s in serious need of a good editor. > **[Colleges are turning students’ phones into surveillance machines, tracking...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/12/24/colleges-are-turning-students-phones-into-surveillance-machines-tracking-locations-hundreds-thousands/)** > > The systems highlight how widespread surveillance has increasingly become a fact of life: Students “should have all the rights, responsibilities and privileges that an adult has. So why do we treat them so differently?” ---
**Author:** ![Kimera757](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kimera757/32/3765_2.png) [@Kimera757](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimera757)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-surveilling-students/845354/8 "2019-12-24T20:06:55Z")
I opened that in a private window. > [@](#): > > When Syracuse University freshmen walk into professor Jeff Rubin’s Introduction to Information Technologies class, seven small Bluetooth beacons hidden around the Grant Auditorium lecture hall connect with an app on their smartphones and boost their “attendance points.” > > And when they skip class? The SpotterEDU app sees that, too, logging their absence into a campus database that tracks them over time and can sink their grade. It also alerts Rubin, who later contacts students to ask where they’ve been. His 340-person lecture has never been so full. So airplane mode doesn’t work. That’s a little bit creepy, but if it only logs whether you are actually there, it’s not too bad. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-surveilling-students/845354/9 "2019-12-24T21:09:05Z")
> [@](#): > > His 340-person lecture has never been so full. So apparently the surveillance in the classroom is a publicly announced policy which the students know about. It’s basically just an attendance sheet. That’s reasonable. I think I had one or two professors 40 years ago who required attendance,and would penalize students who missed too many classes. But if it’s full-scale Big Brother surveillance all over the campus without being publicly declared, and in areas where attendance is not required, that’s a different issue which I would not accept. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-surveilling-students/845354/10 "2019-12-24T21:17:34Z")
> [@Kimera757](#): > > So airplane mode doesn’t work. But turning off Bluetooth does. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-surveilling-students/845354/11 "2019-12-24T21:51:29Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > But if it’s full-scale Big Brother surveillance all over the campus without being publicly declared, and in areas where attendance is not required, that’s a different issue which I would not accept. According to the WaPo article, this is the case. Your movements are monitored in detail. If I remember right (hold on, I’ll go back and read it again right now . . .) Yes, here it is: > [@](#): > > One company that uses school WiFi networks to monitor movements says it gathers 6,000 location data points per student every day. They know when you are in your dorm. They know when you are in the library. They know when you are in the cafeteria. They know when you are off-campus. They know when you’re sleeping. They know when you’re awake. They know when you’ve been bad or good, so be good for goodness sake. They are watching for behavior patterns. They categorize students into various demographics, and build statistical behavior patterns for this demographics. They watch for students who fall outside the normalized behavior patterns for their demographic. They send college advisors to knock on the student’s dorm door if the suspect problems. They are looking for signs of depression or other red flags. The article mentions that students can opt out, but doesn’t go into detail about that. It looks like at least one system requires students to opt in, but there is a two week deadline that isn’t very well publicized, and it seems to imply that students are automatically opted in if they miss that deadline (but it doesn’t actually say that). It doesn’t discuss what the repercussions may be, if any, for students who opt out. The article mentions that some students may not even have smart phones, and seems to imply that they might get marginalized in some ways. It doesn’t mention the notion that some students might simply opt to leave their smart-phones in their dorms. ETA: What next? Mandatory ankle bracelets for all students? ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-surveilling-students/845354/12 "2019-12-24T21:56:35Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > > [@Kimera757](#): > > > > So airplane mode doesn’t work. > > But turning off Bluetooth does. Airplane mode turns off Wi-Fi and Bluetooth along with telephony–everything that would require the phone to transmit radio signals. (Wi-Fi and Bluetooth can then be manually re-enabled.) ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2019, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-surveilling-students/845354/13 "2019-12-25T07:48:23Z")
> [@Kimera757](#): > > So airplane mode doesn’t work. That’s a little bit creepy, but if it only logs whether you are actually there, it’s not too bad. It does not log whether you were there. It logs whether your PHONE was there. Big difference ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2019, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-surveilling-students/845354/14 "2019-12-25T08:16:02Z")
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is one of the reasons we have [location spoofing apps](https://www.lifewire.com/fake-gps-location-4165524). Gee professor, you saw me at your lecture. I have no idea why your tracker says I was at Miami Beach. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2019, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-surveilling-students/845354/15 "2019-12-25T12:31:37Z")
Or, just turn your phone off and only turn it on occasionally, like when you’re having a coffee between classes. After all, profs don’t want your phone to start ringing in the middle of their lectures. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2019, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-surveilling-students/845354/16 "2019-12-25T16:25:13Z")
When I was a student, 65 years ago, colleges were _in loco parentis_. Professors were expected to take role and to penalize students who were overcut (you were limited to twice the number of hours per week). Men were not permitted in women’s dorms and vice versa. Forward to the past! ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2019, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-surveilling-students/845354/17 "2019-12-26T19:57:52Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > The article mentions that students can opt out, but doesn’t go into detail about that. It looks like at least one system requires students to opt in, but there is a two week deadline that isn’t very well publicized, and it seems to imply that students are automatically opted in if they miss that deadline (but it doesn’t actually say that). It doesn’t discuss what the repercussions may be, if any, for students who opt out. What does it even mean to be “automatically opted in” that’s distinct from a system being “opt out”? An automated system to track attendance at classes doesn’t seem terrible to me. Like, you’re supposed to go to class, and it’s worth some points, and this saves having to take roll which wastes everyone’s time. Everything else seems awful. Sure, you can put your phone in airplane mode, but that means you can’t use your phone the way you want. A fun way to fuck with their data would be to buy a handful of whatever the cheapest smartphone you can find is and just trade them around with other students every day or two. But that’s not a real solution either. The idea that you can fix a surveillance society by making individual choices with your devices is naive. You can at best lessen its impact on you slightly for a while. The only way to really solve this is with policy. People need to care that it’s wrong to just track everyone all the time because it happens to be useful in some ways. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2019, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-surveilling-students/845354/18 "2019-12-26T20:25:26Z")
I’m just concerned that many younger people don’t seem to have a concept of how much their privacy is being invaded and why that’s bad, and aren’t good at saying “no” to unreasonable requests. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2019, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-surveilling-students/845354/19 "2019-12-27T00:56:28Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > I’m just concerned that many younger people don’t seem to have a concept of how much their privacy is being invaded and why that’s bad, and aren’t good at saying “no” to unreasonable requests. I think that many people just aren’t clear as to why so much surveillance could be such a bad thing. Look at all the discussions about what so bad about it: Most of the discussion I’ve seen revolves around all the unwanted target advertising you’re going to get, on the web sites you view, in your e-mail span, maybe even coming soon on the Smart TV you watch. There seems to be less discussion about dangers of stalkers, angry exes, disgruntled employees getting your home address, credit card information, and other such details. Yes, it’s discussed, but the bulk of the discussions I’ve seen all seem to focus on all that evil targeted advertising. There is even less discussion – yes, some, but less – about government surveillance. The Man can know who’s attending protest rallies, who drove too fast on the tollway, who watered their lawns on Thursday – everything from trivial stuff to major stuff. Nobody seems to take all this too seriously, especially about governments using surveillance to oppress. Nobody thinks seriously that It Can Happen Here. Yes, It Can Happen Here. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2019, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-surveilling-students/845354/20 "2019-12-27T01:38:57Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > It does not log whether you were there. > > It logs whether your PHONE was there. > > Big difference New job for an enterprising student: “For a dollar, I’ll carry your phone in my briefcase and you won’t have to go to class.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colleges-surveilling-students/845354.md?page=2)