# Collounsbury, 6-3-2000 to 11-28-2002 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 2, 2002, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027 "2002-12-02T20:10:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/261 "2002-12-04T17:42:48Z")
Well said, Sparc. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/262 "2002-12-04T17:44:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by grienspace \* > \*\*Invective is alive and well in the pit, not to pitty. \*\* how about addressing the point that was made: A. you specifically called **Gary** a liar, that there was ‘no evidence’ of you gloating. B. several of us pointed out specific posts of yours that we interpreted as ‘gloating’. Therefore **at best** you were hasty at calling him a liar. I attempted in my first post to you, to give you an out, that you were perhaps ‘unaware’ at how your words sounded to others. the fact that you’ve made no attempt to acknowledge that your word choice was abysmal, and instead continue to heap condemnation on the others (calling us ‘whiners’ for suggesting that you were gloating) for our misinterpreting **your** words (\*to be differentiated from misreading), demonstrates how very appropriate **Gary’s** response to you was. Again- in my first post to you, I was giving you an out, allowing that perhaps your words were poorly chosen, but you’ve failed repeatedly to acknowledge that simple fact. Petty. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/263 "2002-12-04T17:47:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Truth Seeker \* > Of course, it might be a bit more punchy if you edited it down a bit. Don’t forget the attribution! e.g. > > * * * > > “I am the Anus of Gary Kumquat.” – _Doghouse Reilly_ Thanks, but you might edit a little further to clarify the context: "“I am the Anus of Gary Kumquat.” – _re. Efram, as reported by Doghouse Reilly_ ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/264 "2002-12-04T17:47:59Z")
This might be a bad idea, but just in case anyone missed it: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=119009](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=119009) It does have some insightful comments from the man himself on his posting style. For my own opinion, I have little to add that hasn’t already been said: Unfortunate loss, but not surprising. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/265 "2002-12-04T17:56:36Z")
In the case of the Collounsbury, what can be done? Once there was one, and now there is none. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/266 "2002-12-04T17:56:58Z")
Fuck **Sparc** you just don’t get it do you? If **Collounsbury** followed the rules, he would have referenced his ad hominems to the pit like everyone else. and thus there was no need to tone done his responses at all. Secondly, this board does not tolerate bigots. I recently e-mailed a mod on a bigoted OP, and the offender was swiftly banned and his/her thread locked. ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/267 "2002-12-04T17:58:29Z")
> [@](#): > > **Lib** : > > You should be. Suppose a man were to explode merely because someone holds to a particular economic philosophy (the Austrian School), would you not say he is a dick? Dammit, now I’m trying to remember if I ever exploded at you. Did I? Did you call me a dick? The thing is, if I did then I was. I admit it. But: a) Very little will ever compare to the bigotry-in-sheeps-clothing that **Col** dealt with again and again. I see the very ideas he railed against as _being_ the escalation of words that ended with his shouting. IMO he wasn’t responding to civility with wrath, he was responding to brutality with wrath. A very different situation to the minor economic hand-wringing we engage in. b) And anyway, at the end of the day I don’t care that much if people are being a dick whilst arguing over ideas. It isn’t necessarily a good way to get those ideas across to your audience. And persistent being-a-dick is not going to endear anyone to me. But at it just isn’t that big a deal. Whereas **Col** was dealing with crap that most certainly _is_ a big deal. To me, it wasn’t _him_ displaying the overwhelming jerkitude. > [@](#): > > me: > > However when I finally did read through the thread, I was shocked just how many people actually find a bit of frustrated ire more offensive than the frequently breathtakingly unpleasant, petty, obnoxious, bigoted and just plain nasty abuse against subsections of humanity that caused that ire in the first place. > > **Sua** > > And where, exactly, did you get this idea? I haven’t seen anyone defending the fucktards Coll went postal on at all, much less arguing that they are better or worse people than Coll. No? I’ve seen the majority arguing that he deserved his banning and barely a murmur suggesting that the morons he dealt with did too. If behaviour A is worthy of banning then behaviour B that is _more_ offensive than behaviour A certainly deserves it too. As such I can only conclude that people think that **Coll’s** crime was the more heinous. > [@](#): > > Your attitude appears to be that if one side is bad, the other side is allowed to respond in any way they see fit, regardless of whether the response is itself offensive or violates the established rules. I see what you’re saying but, as my old maths teacher would say, it’s dangerous to extrapolate. Certainly there’s nothing to suggest that I say _any_ response is acceptable. Physical violence or actual harm (whether physical or not) would most certainly _not_ be acceptable, for example. However. responding to such vile ideas with frustrated ire in your words on a message board… well that I find understandable. Indeed, I find it not as bad as the original offense that such words were responding too. > [@](#): > > So I take it you would support a U.S. invasion of Iraq even if the UN forbids it? No, I wouldn’t. So this apparent inconsistency is either a flaw in your analogy or a flaw in myself. Somehow I feel quite comfortable. As I say, it isn’t the banning I object to so much as the subsequent rush to nod sagely and dismiss him. The mods know what they know and I wish them well. We do not and I find it sad that **Col’s** words have been judged more offensive than his opponents’ ideas. pan ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/268 "2002-12-04T18:00:02Z")
> [@](#): > > However, I surmise that the point some of us have tried to bring over is that there are a few cases of blatant and offensive bigotry that, however dressed, is just as offensive to some of us as Col’s outburst is to some others. Yet the bigots remain and Col goes… I am in complete agreement that there are incredibly offensive bigots whom **Col** skewered, much to my delight. I also found (long _before_ **Col** ’s demise) their continued presence offensive, both for their bigotry and their willfull ignorance. In fact a few of the most willfully ignorant who return to the same tired chants, repeatedly, are the ones who often evoke in me a desire to smash skulls (or, at least, typing fingers). Unfortunately, enforcing rules that address willfull ignorance and bigotry are subject to the perspective of the owners of the oxen, so we are stuck with rules that address explicit behavior. I don’t think I have defended their actions, here, only responding to specific points in the interests of promoting the Straight Dope. I think that we have suffered a loss, however, I also think that **Col** went out on his own terms. He was not sandbagged or ambushed. The rules were clear and he acknowledged that he was in violation–even professing, in his last Pitting, the desire that he be offered no preferential treatment. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/269 "2002-12-04T18:03:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Anthracite \* > \*\*In the case of the Collounsbury, what can be done? > Once there was one, and now there is none. \*\* Oh god help me, whatever December caught is spreading! ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/270 "2002-12-04T18:06:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doghouse Reilly \* > \*\*Thanks, but you might edit a little further to clarify the context: > > "“I am the Anus of Gary Kumquat.” – _re. Efram, as reported by Doghouse Reilly_ \*\* I’m just trying to understand why you’re claiming such familiarity with my anus. Suppose I should be flattered, but I’m a happily married man and you’re just not my type - sorry. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/271 "2002-12-04T18:06:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gary Kumquat \* > \*\*Oh god help me, whatever December caught is spreading! \*\* now, now **Gary** , just 'cause **Anthracite** is a conservative and just posted a poetic response is no reason to well, be ‘cold’ to her… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/272 "2002-12-04T18:09:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > \*\*Aw, dammit, it had to happen sometime. Nothing to add here to the consensus of “he added a lot” / “he also subtracted a lot”, except the observation that he often said he was drunk while posting. > > Pity it is, though, that invective is a capital offense while bullcrap is not. \*\* Of course, the purpose of the message board is fighting ignorance, and bullcrap is a part of ignorance. The purpose of the board is NOT fighting abusive behaviour. ---
**Author:** ![Truth\_Seeker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5fc32e/32.png) [@Truth\_Seeker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truth_Seeker)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/273 "2002-12-04T18:09:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doghouse Reilly \* > \*\*Thanks, but you might edit a little further to clarify the context: > \*\* Yeah, you _might_. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/274 "2002-12-04T18:09:02Z")
I’m just worried if it starts to mutate. Next we’ll have singing liberals, and libertarians doing performance art. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/275 "2002-12-04T18:12:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gary Kumquat \* > \*\*I’m just worried if it starts to mutate. Next we’ll have singing liberals, and libertarians doing performance art. \*\* sorry to break it to ya hon, but that’s already happening… ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/276 "2002-12-04T18:16:52Z")
Kabbes Almost everyone has some bigotry toward someone or something. Blind hate is an equal opportunity affliction. Some people hate Christians. Some hate Jews. Some hate Blacks. Some hate Indians. Gay people. People who drink. People who don’t. People who eat boogers. People who are ignorant. Fascists. White Supremacists. Black Panthers. Politicians. All these people and countless others are targets of bigotry. They are practitioners, too. Sometimes, they hate each other. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/277 "2002-12-04T18:17:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gary Kumquat \* > I’m just trying to understand why you’re claiming such familiarity with my anus. Well, in keeping with the Tolkien/SDMB mythos we’re creating here, we do have [pictures](http://img-fan.theonering.net/middleearthtours/images/eyeofsauron_decipher.jpg) . . . ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/278 "2002-12-04T18:18:37Z")
RickJay wrote: > [@](#): > > The purpose of the board is NOT fighting abusive behaviour. The purpose of the board isn’t fighting trolls either, but do you suggest they not be banned? The board can have a purpose as well as have a set of standards. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/279 "2002-12-04T18:30:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gary Kumquat \* > \*\*Oh god help me, whatever December caught is spreading! \*\* I didn’t see what December said. I just read some Edward Gorey, and the meter was fresh in my mind. I think it expresses what I feel. Since we are on Page 5, heading for Page 6, it seems that everyone needs to jump in with either condemnation, support, or ambivalence at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Sparc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Sparc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparc)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/280 "2002-12-04T18:31:12Z")
**grieny** your comprehension of discrete reality beggars, even to the point of putting a shadow over your deeply flawed capacity to comprehend the written that is right in front of you. Then again, maybe it is as you say that I am the one that just doesn’t fucking get it. I’ll let others sit in judgment over that. > [@](#): > > Unfortunately, enforcing rules that address willfull ignorance and bigotry are subject to the perspective of the owners of the oxen, so we are stuck with rules that address explicit behavior. I agree and see this point quite clearly as well, therefore I am not screaming out loud about a large injustice having been done, at least I don’t mean to come across as I am screaming. What I am attacking are those that once cried foul and favoritism while either silently letting bigot slurs slip, or even worse while personally spouting them a dozen a minute _and_ the members who embrace ignorance with such repeated stubbornness that they eventually resemble debate automata, or just make me think of the fishing industry. For the sake of clarity I never meant to infer that Tom, or Sua had defended any bigotry. Sparc [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027.md?page=15)