# Collounsbury, 6-3-2000 to 11-28-2002 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 2, 2002, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027 "2002-12-02T20:10:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/41 "2002-12-02T22:21:38Z")
**Jojo** , so, if you have good information, the rules don’t apply to you? ---
**Author:** ![Loopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loopus/32/15343_2.png) [@Loopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopus)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/42 "2002-12-02T22:27:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jojo \* > **Collounsbury was abrasive to be sure but then most of the time his abrasiveness was directed at people who deserved it.** When did the rule change to “Don’t be a jerk, unless somebody deserves it?” ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/43 "2002-12-02T22:33:59Z")
It should have been done much sooner but late is better than never. ---
**Author:** ![Jojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecd19e/32.png) [@Jojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jojo)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/44 "2002-12-02T22:37:27Z")
No Guin, what I’m saying is that middle eastern society is so alien to 99% of the people who post here that it takes a bit of harsh-sounding language to make people understand what’s going on over there. People who live in western christian dominated culture all share certain similar values and belief systems. People from middle eastern countries have different values and belief systems. They behead people all the time in Saudi and most people over there don’t even think there’s anything wrong with that. There’s a huge gulf in understanding between western culture and middle-eastern culture. In order to bridge that gap it’s sometimes necessary to talk straight from the hip. Collounsbury’s reasoning and language seems harsh to us but he was merely reflecting the way many people think in the middle east. As such, Collounsbury served as an important conduit between western culture and middle eastern culture since he had a foot in both camps and the intelligence to comment on it. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/45 "2002-12-02T22:38:16Z")
DAMN DAMN DAMN DAMN. ---
**Author:** ![Jojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecd19e/32.png) [@Jojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jojo)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/46 "2002-12-02T22:40:36Z")
Loopus, If someone deserves it then you’re not being a jerk by highlighting their ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/47 "2002-12-02T22:42:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\ ***Jojo** , so, if you have good information, the rules don’t apply to you? \*\* It kind of depends on where you draw the line between the importance of fighting ignorance, and the need for civility. I have no idea where that line should be drawn…I trust that the administration did what had to be done, but that doesnt mean that I enjoy it… ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/48 "2002-12-02T22:46:24Z")
Jojo wrote: > [@](#): > > If someone deserves it then you’re not being a jerk by highlighting their ignorance. Ignorance of what, Jojo? Your pet issues? Or may I rip you a few new assholes for your ignorance of logical fallacies, and watch you react with greatful praise? ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/49 "2002-12-02T22:46:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jojo \* > ok now I’m really angry. > > Collounsbury was abrasive to be sure but then most of the time his abrasiveness was directed at people who deserved it. I tended to take his hostile sounding posts in the way (I think) they were meant - as witty rejoinders. In fact, being insulted by Collounsbury is quite an honour - you know you’ve arrived. Sadly, that’s not true. When **Collounsbury** first became active, he and I were very often in the same GD threads, and usually on the same side. Our interests and POVs were complementary, and I found his more detailed knowledge about certain areas both interesting and informative. But I stopped reading **Coll’s** posts and generally shied away from getting involved with threads in which he was active about a year ago, for a simple reason – it was getting unpleasant to read them. I was never an object of his scorn, but that didn’t make it much more palatable. If I am representative, his diatribes not only affected those who incurred his wrath, but people who otherwise would have learned something from him, had it been written in a better form. Sua ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/50 "2002-12-02T22:50:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Collounsbury is survived by December, CKDexterHaven and grienspace. So are you attacking these three people??? or is this a joke i don’t get??? ---
**Author:** ![Jojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecd19e/32.png) [@Jojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jojo)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/51 "2002-12-02T22:52:58Z")
Sua, I accept he was rude (probably too rude) and I agree he does seem to have been _exceptionally_ rude recently which is why I said I think he should e mail Lynn with a promise to tone his rhetoric down a touch. And rejoin. Maybe this banning will be a sufficient rebuke to him? I think he’s due one chance for all the ignorance he’s disspelled (I’ve certainly learnt a lot). ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/52 "2002-12-02T22:53:37Z")
I will miss him. I haven’t been very active recently, so I have apparently missed the many warnings and aditional fallout. He always seemed to me both very knowledgable and sincerely interested in sharing that knowledge with those who were curious. And I nver found his style to be unnecessarily abrasive . . . but that probably just says something about me. Fare well, **Collounsbury**. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/53 "2002-12-02T22:57:10Z")
A sufficient rebuke? He was warned several times. You make it sound like this would be the first wake-up call he had been given. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/54 "2002-12-02T22:59:06Z")
If you are ignorant about the Middle East, and I am ignorant about the protocols of basic civility, we are merely both ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/55 "2002-12-02T23:09:45Z")
> [@](#): > > but that probably just says something about me. I’ll say. It never bothered me, either, but rules is rules. Hell, if it wasn’t for the dual **Collounsbury** and **Mundi** attack on me when I first joined (ahh, Ayn Rand…), I wouldn’t be the ignoramus I am today. At least my mistakes are more varied and interesting. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Truth\_Seeker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5fc32e/32.png) [@Truth\_Seeker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truth_Seeker)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/56 "2002-12-02T23:27:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\*I hope that, after a suitable period, Collounsbury will e mail Lynn with a promise to restrain his tongue and rejoin. \*\* Somehow, I can’t really picture **C** doing this. It’s a shame really, as I suspect **C** will end up missing the SDMB as much as many SDMB poster’s will miss **C**. I have to agree with most of **JoJo’s** sentiments. But, as lots of people have already remarked, his banning was unfortunate, not unforseeable. I also have to sympathsize with some of his basic frustration. It _is_ frustrating to go over the same basic ground over and over again only to have a new thread pop up a week later with some of the same nonsense – often being spouted by some of the same posters. There are inevitably arguments in Mid-East/Islam threads that are the rhetorical equivalent of Jason. You blow them full of holes and chop them to tiny bits only to see them resurected as good as new in the next thread. The SDMB probably _will_ be more civil without him, but it won’t be more interesting or more informative. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/57 "2002-12-02T23:39:22Z")
I find Tamerlane sufficiently interesting and informative. ---
**Author:** ![PhiloVance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@PhiloVance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhiloVance)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/58 "2002-12-02T23:44:20Z")
Personally I never had a run-in with Collounsbury, but I did follow the recent thread in which some people felt he got ‘special’ treatment as he skirted the edge of the ‘don’t be a jerk’ rule. He was a jerk many times, and finally got called on it. As someone pointed out at the time, all we had were his words to judge him by, and as many have acknowledged his knowledge and insight of the Middle East, many as well acknowledged his abrasive manner. ---
**Author:** ![Jojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecd19e/32.png) [@Jojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jojo)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/59 "2002-12-02T23:57:33Z")
Libertarian, You seem to be firmly in the “Ban Coll” camp. Did he perchance call you a “drooling idiot” or something one time maybe? Hey he insulted me too, I don’t let it get to me. Maybe you are overly sensitive? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/60 "2002-12-03T00:04:56Z")
Actually, if anything, his abrasive style would make it harder to take him seriously, because it’s very off-putting. Shouting at people and calling them stupid isn’t likely to get them on your side. You know, the whole fly-honey-vinegar thing? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027.md?page=4)