# Collounsbury, 6-3-2000 to 11-28-2002 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 2, 2002, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027 "2002-12-02T20:10:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/141 "2002-12-03T13:13:45Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by MSU 1978 \* > \*\* I found him to be a mean-spirited, condescending bigot_\* How strange that you didn’t call him this to his face as it were, rather waiting till he was unable to respond before making such a comment. ---
**Author:** ![lucwarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@lucwarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lucwarm)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/142 "2002-12-03T13:46:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sparc \* > \*\ ***Col** can by most standards be described as mean spirited and condescending, but he does most certainly not deserve to be called a bigot. \*\* I found the following definition of bigot online: > [@](#): > > a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion. Sounds pretty close to me. > [@](#): > > \*\*Methinks that **Col** would call the usage of the epithet bigot in this context uniformed idiocy and illiterate drivel. > > Sparc \*\* You’re probably right. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/143 "2002-12-03T14:19:47Z")
Me, I’m just sad I’ll never get the ‘cheesemaker’ thing. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Harmonix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonix)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/144 "2002-12-03T14:34:10Z")
> [@](#): > > Okay, Sam, in that case I’m with you. I’m rather amazed that Harmonix is continuing to argue the point. Well, no, i’ve pretty much given up. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/145 "2002-12-03T14:34:43Z")
> [@](#): > > notorious cretin Notorious, yeah - and probably a lot of different “notorious _fill in the epithet_” statements would apply. But not cretin, IMHO. Stupid, he’s not. > [@](#): > > Tamerlane. You’re gonna have to kick it up a notch. Could you practice being just a little less polite? I can’t fucking believe that anyone can argue against stupidity the way you do and still remain SO civil(well, perhaps tomndebb). Spoken like a true drooling idiot. Better? 😛 > [@](#): > > Often, an objective opinion is more valuable and less ignorant than a subjective one. Eh, perhaps. However I would say **Coll** generally held what I would consider a base rather moderate positions, at least vis-a-vis the ME, though his expression of them may not have always been as moderate as they were. In other words, I don’t think he was seriously lacking in academic objectivity. > [@](#): > > First thing I wanted to know was what the heck “Collounsbury” means. To expand on what **Sparc** said - “Collier Lounsbury.” > [@](#): > > I try to infer information from such things- for example I’ve always assumed “december” was elderly based on his name. I shudder to think what you infer from mine then ;). > [@](#): > > Col can by most standards be described as mean spirited and condescending, but he does most certainly not deserve to be called a bigot. I agree. He was pissy, sometimes to the nth degree. But he wasn’t a mindless hater, even at his worst. There’s a difference between bigotry and fierce disagreement, however vehemently expressed. He wasn’t stupid and wasn’t a bigot IMHO. But hey, YMMV. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/146 "2002-12-03T14:40:19Z")
I agree with both **Sparc** and **Gary**. I found many of those he argued against vastly more repulsive and offensive than he was even on his cattiest day. He got his hands dirty in protracted arguments with individuals whom I find too frustrating even to bother with. For what it’s worth, he also took a great deal of time to do me a personal favor off the boards, for which I am still grateful. While hardly a saint, I don’t think he deserves nor particularly cares about the scorn of the perpetually ignorant and thin-skinned. > [@](#): > > Wow. Bad Astronomer is an excellent example of how to be informed from head to toe about something and use reason rather than ad hominem to win arguments. He attacks only falsehoods, and never those who bear them I don’t think this analogy is apt whatsoever. It is substantially easier to be cool and collected, I believe, about astronomical issues than about race and Middle Eastern affairs, two of the most important cultural and political concerns of our _era_. Uninformed opinions on these issues can do serious _damage_ to other people. I admit this may be possible with respect to ignorance of astronomy, but right now, I just don’t see it. > [@](#): > > Me, I’m just sad I’ll never get the ‘cheesemaker’ thing. Cheesemakers will inherit the earth. It’s from the Life of Brian. Proof positive that Coll has a sense of humor. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/147 "2002-12-03T14:51:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Klaatu \* > \*\*Collounsbury exhibited no more knowledge about his area of expertise than any number of Dopers on this board exhibit about theirs. > > Yes, he was erudite and articulate, but no more than many others. He only came across as exceptionally informed because of his “academic” posting style. > > I for one found him to be a condescending jerk. (Caveat: I rarely post in GD, but I read it every day.) > > Unlike many other well-educated/well informed and cool Dopers like The Bad Astronomer. > > I won’t miss him a bit. \*\* Ditto. He became a legend in his own mind- above the “petty rules” of the “little people”. He got more second chances then almost any poster I have seen here. He intentionally and continuously flouted the basic rule of the board after numerous and detailed warnings. If anything, he should have been gone months ago. This board is bigger then any one poster- no matter who leaves the party continues. The loss of one self-important Jerk will not effect the board in the least. In a month, everyone will forget this incident. Hopefully, no poster in the future will be allowed to be so disruptive for so long. A tip of the cap to the mods for doing the right thing- its a thankless job at times but many of us appriciate the job your doing here. Thank you. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/148 "2002-12-03T14:56:55Z")
Anyone else see **Coullounsbury** as Mandark on _Dexter’s Laboratory_? Ha ha ha! ha ha ha ha! ---
**Author:** ![celestina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/258eb7/32.png) [@celestina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/celestina)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/149 "2002-12-03T15:14:37Z")
So, is getting oneself purposely banned the best way to break the addiction to the SDMB? [giggle] Hmmmm. Seriously, though, I enjoyed reading **Collounsbury’s** posts. As far as I can recall, he never treated me rudely–in fact he was the exact opposite–and there were times when other folks corrected him on points he’d gotten wrong or called him out for his behavior, and he did apologize and/or retract. Despite all the rudeness and profanity, which sometimes made me cringe and other times giggle, I liked being able to take what he posted and when I had the time check sources and try to figure out what my take on the things he posted about is. I also appreciated him taking bigotry and ignorance to task, even though he did push the line of what is acceptable a few times. I know I don’t have the patience or the time to post a fraction of what he did. While he certainly does need to have his mouth washed out with virtual soap [giggle], he certainly does have a lot of integrity when it comes to being intellectually honest. I’ll miss Sugarlump, and I wish him well, but c’est la vie. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/150 "2002-12-03T15:15:43Z")
Maeglin wrote: > [@](#): > > I don’t think this analogy is apt whatsoever. It is substantially easier to be cool and collected, I believe, about astronomical issues than about race and Middle Eastern affairs, two of the most important cultural and political concerns of our era. Uninformed opinions on these issues can do serious damage to other people. I admit this may be possible with respect to ignorance of astronomy, but right now, I just don’t see it. Moon hoaxers, creationists, UFO conspiricists, and the like can do right much damage. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/151 "2002-12-03T15:16:50Z")
> [@](#): > > Moon hoaxers, creationists, UFO conspiricists, and the like can do right much damage. Yeah, I guess you’re right. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/152 "2002-12-03T15:18:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*Moon hoaxers, creationists, UFO conspiricists, and the like can do right much damage. \*\* Sorry, but they’re nothing compared to some of the hateful drivel I’ve seen people espouse on Middle East and North African issues in great debates. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/153 "2002-12-03T15:51:53Z")
I’m glad someone started this thread; I’d been meaning to do something in response to **Collounsbury’s** banning for a few days now, but just hadn’t been able to decide exactly what. I’ve been of at least two minds about the banning. On one hand, he was rather more abrasive on occasion than I feel was strictly necessary to accomplish his purpose (or as my grandmother and several other posters put it, “you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar”). He was grumpier toward me than I felt necessary on one occasion, but I called him on it, and he stopped. On the other hand, I agree with those posters who have noted that the recipients of his ire generally deserved it; he is better informed than almost anyone I’ve ever known (except a couple of academics, and their knowledge was deeper, but narrower) on the Middle East, and that he was better than the vast majority of Dopers about providing solid evidence for his arguments. And as someone with a deep interest in an area of the world which is frequently misunderstood, and about which the mainstream Western media generally presents very fragmentary and skewed information and about which most Americans have zero historical knowledge/perspective, I can understand his frustration with people blurting out ignorant falsehoods without any facts to back them up, or conveniently leaving out half the story. (That, and I am with **Tamerlane** in believing strongly that there is no substitute for in-region living/working experience.) So I guess you could say I’m sorry that he’s been banned, but I do understand the reasons why. I still retain a glimmer of hope, though, that with enough begging and pleading on someone’s part, he will be back eventually. In the meantime, although I do highly appreciate the well-balanced posts of **Tamerlane** et al., if anyone is aware of another spot where serious and informed debate takes place on the Middle East/Islamic world, maybe even one where **Collounsbury** participates, please post it here. And although I’m leery of posting my e-mail anywhere public, there are a few of you out there who have my e-mail address (I guess the mods have access to it, too); if anyone who does also has \*\*Collousbury’s, \*\* and knows he wouldn’t mind having it passed along to me or would be willing to pass along a message, I wouldn’t mind being able to drop him a line privately. Oh, and I find it frankly hilarious that a longtime poster whose first words of greeting to me were “fuck you, bitch” (when I politely suggested laying off the invective directed at another poster) has seen fit to criticize **Collousbury’s** insults. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/154 "2002-12-03T15:57:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eva Luna \* > \*\*So I guess you could say I’m sorry that he’s been banned, but I do understand the reasons why. I still retain a glimmer of hope, though, that with enough begging and pleading on someone’s part, he will be back eventually. \*\* Back as what? If he comes back and does not change his behavior, he’ll be kicked out again. What do you think the chances are he’ll come back and change his behavior? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/155 "2002-12-03T15:57:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eva Luna \* > \*\*Oh, and I find it frankly hilarious that a longtime poster whose first words of greeting to me were “fuck you, bitch” (when I politely suggested laying off the invective directed at another poster) has seen fit to criticize **Collousbury’s** insults. \*\* Ooh, who, who? Go on, drop 'em in it. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/156 "2002-12-03T15:58:46Z")
## quote: ## Moon hoaxers, creationists, UFO conspiricists, and the like can do right much damage. So can jerks. I stopped reading **Collounsbury** ’s posts a while back. Lots of other Dopers just as knowledgeable, and far more civilized. If I want to learn something, I can do so from them, and I don’t have to wade thru six paragraphs of abuse to get to it. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/157 "2002-12-03T16:00:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gary Kumquat \* > \*\*Ooh, who, who? Go on, drop 'em in it. \*\* Well, let’s see if he responds himself first…otherwise, there’s always your friend, the Search function. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/158 "2002-12-03T16:02:41Z")
> [@](#): > > However, as time went by, and he moved onto other subjects, I couldn’t help but notice that he could be quite vilely rude, sometimes, to people who didn’t deserve it - people who were genuinely asking for information, or participating in legitimate debate. And I only ever saw him apologize once for his attitude. You know, I have been on both the receiving end of his shit-stick when I’ve made assertions, and the recieving end of his information when I asked questions. And I can understand why he acted the way he acted. I wouldn’t act that way, I don’t support it, and it was proper re: board rules to ban him. But I totally understand. When I asked good questions, he gave good answers. When I was an idiot, he let me know it. This doesn’t make him an asshole, but it breaks board rules. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/159 "2002-12-03T16:04:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eva Luna \* > \*\*Well, let’s see if he responds himself first…otherwise, there’s always your friend, the Search function. \*\* And it works, too. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027/160 "2002-12-03T16:07:35Z")
Eris Suppose that, in Great Debates, I had responded to your question: > [@](#): > > Oh, I don’t know, lib… ~A=~A? with this: “No, you fucking idiot. You’ve negated the terms themselves, and not the proposition. Only a plebian Neanderthal could confuse A=A with A.” …rather than the response I gave… “The tautology is A=A. The contradiction is ~(A=A).” Would you have been more edified? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-6-3-2000-to-11-28-2002/140027.md?page=9)