# Collounsbury/Jack Chick **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 18, 2003, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-jack-chick/169594 "2003-04-18T17:29:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2003, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-jack-chick/169594/21 "2003-04-19T21:33:05Z")
**Tamerlane** , I skipped you’re post, because I was in no mood to be educated. but I couldn’t resist after all, and commend you for a very ballanced and informative post. ---
**Author:** ![Soup\_du\_jour](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Soup\_du\_jour](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soup_du_jour)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2003, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-jack-chick/169594/22 "2003-04-19T21:33:46Z")
If I call myself a Communist and proceed to work tirelessly for the institution of Capitalism, a system in which I agree with the principles of, than I am most decidedly not a Communist. If I take a shotgun to a friend of mine without provocation and pull the trigger, it is murder, no matter if I decide to call it “target proactice.” Allowing folks to define their own terms for themselves would render those terms meaningless, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2003, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-jack-chick/169594/23 "2003-04-19T21:35:04Z")
Um, **grienspace** , do you know anything at ALL about the Nation of Islam? They’re not true Muslims. Just like Jews for Jesus is NOT a Jewish organization. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2003, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-jack-chick/169594/24 "2003-04-19T21:38:43Z")
Collounsbury is to Nation of Islam as Jack Chick is to Mormons. Nope. I’m just not buying it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2003, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-jack-chick/169594/25 "2003-04-19T22:08:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*Um, **grienspace** , do you know anything at ALL about the Nation of Islam? > > They’re not true Muslims. Just like Jews for Jesus is NOT a Jewish organization. \*\* Very little. I didn’t know that the Jews for Jesus were not Jewish either. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2003, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-jack-chick/169594/26 "2003-04-19T22:32:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by grienspace \* > \*\*Very little. I didn’t know that the Jews for Jesus were not Jewish either. \*\* If you admit that you have ‘very little’ knowledge of Islam, then how can you judge anyone else’s assesment of it? If some one says something like “Cricket is very similar to American Baseball” and I know next to nothing about Cricket how on earth can I make any reasonable judgement as to the correctness of their statement? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2003, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-jack-chick/169594/27 "2003-04-19T23:53:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Robb \* > \*\ ***grienspace** , is there anything in **Col** ’s post that you can demonstrate is wrong, or are you just hoping to damn him through a comparison? \*\* Grienspace, please answer the above question. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2003, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-jack-chick/169594/28 "2003-04-20T00:10:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by grienspace \* > \*\* > > **Biggirl** , I felt emotional pain from your response. I wish you would like me. > > \*\* I love ya honey, don’t take it too personally. It’s just that this thread is, well, stupid. And I kinda miss the old **Col’s** fangs. All of you Col haters keep looking for that one misstep so you all can start yelling “See! Who let him back in?” Buck up **Green** and party on, dude! ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2003, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-jack-chick/169594/29 "2003-04-20T02:52:59Z")
C’mon, Grien, just come on out and admit that you got a little overzealous. I’ll buy you a beer, even. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2003, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-jack-chick/169594/30 "2003-04-20T03:10:51Z")
I confess! I was overzealous! _Mea fuckup, mea maxima fuckup_ Heinekens, if you would. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2003, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-jack-chick/169594/31 "2003-04-20T03:28:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blalron \* > \*\*Collounsbury is to Nation of Islam as Jack Chick is to Mormons. > > Nope. I’m just not buying it. \*\* Try this, instead: “The NOI is to Islam as Jack Chick is to Christianity.” Now that makes some sense. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2003, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-jack-chick/169594/32 "2003-04-20T09:45:19Z")
> [@](#): > > I confess! I was overzealous! Mea fuckup, mea maxima fuckup > > Heinekens, if you would. I’m happy to oblige, even if it _is_ Elucidator. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2003, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-jack-chick/169594/33 "2003-04-20T12:35:31Z")
Ah Greeny my dear little moron, nice try there. Lucky for you I am feeling mellow today and shall spare you a reaming. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2003, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-jack-chick/169594/34 "2003-04-20T13:05:37Z")
Since **Collounsbury** is slacking, allow me to do the reaming. The NOI are not a more extreme form of Islam. . . they are not Muslim at all. For one thing, the NOI beleive that Elijah Muhammad was a prophet, a major heresy because Islam holds that because God gave His most perfect revelation to Mohammed in the form of the Qu’ran, there can be no more prophets. For another, the NOI believe in racism and that the black man is inherently superior, which contradicts the Qu’ranic teaching that the only difference among people in the sight of God is their piety. The only sources of truth that bind every Muslim are the Qu’ran and the Hadith, sayings that have been written down and reliably attributed to Mohammed. Any teaching that contradicts the teachings from these two sources is un-Islamic and must be rejected. The Noi are not real Muslims, but a heretical cult. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2003, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-jack-chick/169594/35 "2003-04-20T13:12:15Z")
> [@](#): > > _wring_ > If you admit that you have ‘very little’ knowledge of Islam, then how can you judge anyone else’s assesment of it? Never said that. What I did say was that I have very little knowledge of the _Nation of Islam_. You’re confusion is quite understandable though. Ah, **Gary Kumquat** , haven’t heard from you in a while, perhaps since my last rare pit thread. To answer your question, I suggest you re-read this thread where I answer **Robb** > [@](#): > > Robb, it is not up to me to decide whether the Nation of Islam is Islamic or not. It certainly isn’t to be decided by Collounsbury either. And I don’t give a fuck what other Islamic entities have to say about it . If the Nation of Islam describes itself as Islamic, that’s up to them. If they reject Islam, then I’ll accept that. If that isn’t clear enough for you, I can go further. What the fuck was the point in **Collounsbury** challenging **December’s** label of the Washington snipers as muslims ? To completely ignore **December’s** point that profiling cuts both ways in practice and error and hijack the thread to challenge the legitimacy of the sniper’s religious credentials is downright pathetic. And that is wrong. Who the fuck does he think he is? The SDMB guardian of pure Islamic doctrine? Next we’ll hear from someone that I’m not a Christian because I don’t go the church. **Biggirl** : Ah schucks, thanks . But I’m not a Coliphobe. I find blatant egomania fascinating and entertaining. **SPOOFE** : Zealous yes, but not overzealous as I rarely pit. Coke will do. On preview I see the culprit has responded. I’m somewhat disappointed by the brevity and lack of substance, but what can one say when he has no defence. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2003, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-jack-chick/169594/36 "2003-04-20T13:13:45Z")
Thanks for spotting me mate, I was hoping to discuss Arab music today, not NoI. Frankly one can go on and on listing the practices that NoI diverges from and/or ignores Sunnah. At some point one simply has to conclude that while they appropriated the name, they took none of the meat. (I might add that there are racist Muslims, but no extent Islamic doctrine that supports their racism. Ennaji’s _Soldats, concubines et esclaves_ has an interesting brief review of some lit. on this. I think it has been translated into English btw.) ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2003, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-jack-chick/169594/37 "2003-04-20T13:17:45Z")
By the way, I might add that while I despite NoI for their corrupt politics and explicit racism, there mere fact they are clarly not Miuslims is not a value judgement in and of itself. E.g. as far as I can tell most Eastern Arab Xians who are aware of Mormons consider them to be something like the Druze, fine folks but not Xians. Not a value judgement per se, just the consideration they’re not part of the tribe, so to speak. And Greeny my dear little twit, I have every defence, I just don’t feel like reaming you today. More trouble than it’s worth you drooling little moron. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2003, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-jack-chick/169594/38 "2003-04-20T13:34:02Z")
From the official website of the [Nation of Islam](http://www.noi.org/history_of_noi.htm?history=&Nation+of+Islam=&noi=) > [@](#): > > In spite of the controversy and clamor surrounding the Nation of Islam and it’s Divine Leader, Minister Louis Farrakhan, we are forging ahead in the Spirit of Almighty God, Allah, to unite with all of humanity in the Oneness of God, where all people of goodwill of every Race and of every Nation may participate in the Universal Expression of the Principles of Peace and the Brotherhood of man. This is the Beautiful Community of the Nation of Islam that is coming to birth in America on this Farthest Western Horizon in fulfillment of the Prophecy that God would meet with Muhammad for a second time and reveal to His servant What He Revealed. Thus the world is witnessing the Sun of Islam arising in the West. Praise the Holy Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful. “explicit racism” ? my ass ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2003, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-jack-chick/169594/39 "2003-04-20T13:52:46Z")
**Grienspace** , you might have read the first parapgraph of that page: > [@](#): > > On July the Fourth, the day of America’s Independence celebration, He announced the beginning of His mission which was to restore and to resurrect His lost and found people, who were identified as the original members of the Tribe of Shabazz from the Lost Nation of Asia. The lost people of the original nation of African descent, were captured, exploited, and dehumanized to serve as servitude slaves of America for over three centuries. His mission was to teach the downtrodden and defenseless Black people a thorough Knowledge of God and of themselves, and to put them on the road to Self-Independence with a superior culture and higher civilization than they had previously experienced. Qu’ranic revelation is not to any one race, but to all people who live in submission to God’s will. The NOI, by focussing only on black people, are contradicting the Qu’ranic teaching that all races are equal in the sight of God. Moreover, in the very paragraph you cited, this line, “This is the Beautiful Community of the Nation of Islam that is coming to birth in America on this Farthest Western Horizon in fulfillment of the Prophecy that God would meet with Muhammad for a second time and reveal to His servant What He Revealed,” shows that the NOI are heretical. God has already given the most perfect and complete revelation to humanity through the Qu’ran. By saying that God has revealed himself a second time to Elijah Mohammed, the NOI shows itself not to be Muslim, but a heretical sect dressed up in Islamic verbiage. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2003, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-jack-chick/169594/40 "2003-04-20T13:59:31Z")
Pitiful. I’ll let you pickle in your own idiocy, alhtough if you ever decided to actually learn something Greeny, you might read Malcom X’s own autobio. However on Arabic music, I contributed to this thread: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=177074](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=177074) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-jack-chick/169594.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/collounsbury-jack-chick/169594.md?page=3)