Colon Cleansing--Quackery or No?

It’s never the responsibility of someone denying a claim to come up with evidence that it doesn’t work. It’s the “colon cleansers” that should come up with the medical proof it does something, which they haven’t, because it doesn’t. Watch the “Bullshit” episode if you want the opinions of several doctors and toxicologists on the matter.

It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that sticking a tube up someone’s rectum and flushing it with water does nothing differently than a typical bowel movement, and furthermore it’s not like the intestines are swiss cheese with massive crevices of crap regularly getting stuck.

The Risks of colon cleansing… (Un Cited, but logical…)

  1. It is not a natural function of the human body to introduce large amounts of liquid via the rectum. This in itself may or may not represent a risk, but the fact that so called “practitioners” are unfettered by serious liscencing and peer review means that there is no profesional obligation to insure that their formulas are indeed healthy and/or medically advisable.

  2. Possibility of infection. Once again the lack of profesional accreditation means that the equipment and materials used may not be sterile. Additionally, foriegn yeasts, bacteria and viruses, introduced in a manner which tends to flush the normal gut flora and fauna out means that you have just given the invaders a empty, and unprotected ground in which to multiply.

NOTE: Some may say 'But, FML, they ARE “Professionalloy Acredited”… they had a certificate and everything! Yeah… I can print one off myself, wanna try my wholistic firehose treatment which uses ground crystals attuned to your Chackras… only $599.99. Say you heard about it on “the Dope” and I will throw in a handfull of super active ionised silica at no extra charge!
3) Damage to normal gut flora and fauna can be quite serious. These bacteria, yeast and viruses all live there, we evolved with them, and they play a big part in everything from digestion, vitamin production and absorbtion, immune response and more. Colon cleansing tends to flush these critters out, and can lead to serious results.

  1. Tissue injury: The tissues in the rectum are quite delicate, and prone to tearing, abrasion and cuts from the practice of colon cleansing. Couple this with the possibility of infection mentioned above and you are courting disaster.

  2. Replacement for legitamate therapy. Lookinbg to this and other wholistic treatments for a condition that actually requires a medical/doctor’s care can be dangerous.
    Regards
    FML

Please note this dudes- the OP is about taking a herbal colon cleasing supplement, very likely a powder or pill. In general, these are just over priced and scare tacticed herbal laxatives, and the main danger from them is the damage they do to your wallet. Like I said above, adding a fiber supplement is likely a good idea for many Americans and these “miraculous” herbal colon cleansing program" are at best, only a very overpriced herbal fiber supplement, and at worst a very overpriced herbal laxative- which can be dangerous if taken too often or for some dudes. For a dude in good health, buying one of these is mostly dangerous to his wallet.

We are not talking about “high colonics”, which in my non-medical opinion are only a good idea if directed by a real MD, which will be very rarely. Don’t indulge otherwise.

Okay, I was directed to have a series of 2 colonics by a real MD for the following reason:

In other words, in my particular case, the very point of the colonics was to alter the balance of things.

Okay, the doc was a bit quackish, but the overall program of treatment did work. (The colonics were only a small part of it.)

The colonic lady was a complete nutjob, though. Having eleventy gallons of water pumped up my ass was bad. Listening to her go on and on about food combining and the joys of colonic irrigation while I was trapped in the machine was excruciating.

First of all, I understand the protocol of scientific inquiry. But the poster was being quite smug about having researched it, so I wanted to know the details of his supposed expensive research. I don’t think I was being out of line given the condescension and self-congratulation oozing from that post.

Secondly, I don’t believe a damn thing that comes from that Penn and Teller show. I watched it based on what I’d heard about it on this board, but was shocked at how exceedingly low-brow and unscientific they were. Their “research” involves going in with an assumption and then finding people who support that claim, and rebutting claims by saying “bullshit” repeatedly. They relied on ridiculous ad-hominem attacks (“what an asshole!”), irrelevant and misleading experiments, and bullying the viewer into agreement in order to support their claims. It’s hardly serious scientific inquiry, and I have to question the intellectual stature of anyone who can take that show seriously as a legitimate source of information. They once even used a meat advocacy group (interestingly named the “Center for Consumer Freedom”) as a source of supposedly unbiased information about vegetarianism.

“It doesn’t take a genius…” is not the language of scientific inquiry. If you are arguing a point against me, you should have citations and specific responses from experts on the subject.

Again, and I’m getting irritated having to repeat myself here, I DO NOT BELIEVE NOR DISBELIEVE ANYTHING ABOUT COLONICS. I just think it’s dumb for anyone to say something is “complete quackery” without having either conducted an extensive investigation or having seen a serious study where someone did. Sure, maybe you can say that you’re 95% sure it’s quackery based on anatomy or whatever, but making definitive statements without having all the information (i.e. the results of a specific scientific experiment addressing the specifics of the claim) is typical of the arrogance of mainstream scientific and medical community. And if I seem like a new-agey flake or junk-science advocate for saying that a focused study is necessary for a conclusive answer on a subject, well, I’m sorry for being so “naive.” I’m not saying that it’s realistic to test every wild claim out there, but that doesn’t change the fact that definitiveness (AKA absolute certainty) is hard to know. People who speak with such confidence about the nature of reality despite a plethora of contradictory anecdotal evidence, and without having any focused studies is, in my opinion, being cocky and arrogant.

Sheer utter nonsense.

If you’ve bothered to pay the slightest attention to reality you’d know that this topic has been discussed a zillion times here on the Dope and any claims made by the quacks have been completely demolished.

Do I need to detox my body?

Liver/Gall Bladder cleansing?

Enema’s and Colonics…what’s the dope

“Hidden Poo” Kinda graphic physiological question about bowel function

What’s the straight dope on diarrhea?

Fasting and toxins – scientific evidence?

Chronic Constipation - The truth about impacted feces and severe TMI

How many times must we shout down the quacks that infest the internet before the message gets heard? How is it our responsibility that you refuse to do the slightest research on the topic? You don’t have to pour through medical journals. Snopes or Quackwatch have covered colon cleansing just the way we have.

If you neither believe nor disbelief anything on the subject then your mind is deliberately closed. The answers are omnipresent. Only the quacks say that their woo-woo nonsense is good for you. The entire medical community is on the other side.

I am 100% sure that this is quackery. Why? Because I’ve done the research. I don’t need to post my credentials. (I have them. I’ve written entire books about digestion.) And at this point saying that there have been a zillion threads on the topic should be enough. It’s your responsibility to go through them and see the massive amounts of evidence that has already been put forward. We can only fight ignorance if the ignorant are willing to listen. You’ve amply proved that you aren’t.

Ok, but can you clarify which procedures you say are quackery? I mean, just adding more fiber and some probiotics to one’s diet sounds like a Good thing, most of the time?

The facts have to be repeated continually to counteract quackery, sorry to say.*

To address the earlier question about peculiar things ejected from the colon by people who’ve had “cleanses” - there’s little mystery to this. The oddball stuff triumphantly proclaimed to be “toxic waste” or “mucoid plaque” by devotees of “cleansing” appears to be constituents of the goop they take in attempts to cleanse themselves. More on that here.

Here’s a compendium of debunkery on the subject of “colon cleansing”, “detox enemas” etc.

*Some quackery has such a compelling appeal that it survives through centuries of ignorance and keeps getting revived by generations of credulous boobies and the hucksters that exploit them. The idea that your bodily waste contains deadly toxins that must be flushed out is one major example.

(?)(?)

What does that have to do with colon cleansing?

Here are colon cleansing products.

Neither fiber nor probiotics by themselves are promoted as colon cleansers. Go to a supermarket. You’ll find shelves of them without colon cleansing being anywhere in the message.

Colon cleansers make the claim overtly. That’s how they justify the ridiculously large prices of their products to the gullible ($88, $42, $60, and $80 in the above link).

True, but some colon care products are reasonably priced compendiums ($10 per jar) of fibers and probiotics. These would seem safe, effective, useful, and reasonable priced.

Aren’t those incredulous boobies?

I am not advocating that colon cleansing works. I am asking, politely, if you indeed have a real citation related to a study on this specific subject, please. (Incidentally, Snopes has no such article, and Quackwatch relates only to specific companies’ claims). If you don’t, then you haven’t convinced me that it’s quackery. I realize this is a controversial ideological line to tow, but if you don’t show me evidence of something one way or another, then I will not form a belief about it.

And no, this conversation really has nothing to do with colon cleansing; it has to do with the nature of knowledge. I know that people who pride themselves on their scientific minds will lambaste this attitude as being naive, giving unwanted credence to con artists, and a drain on scientific resources. Nevertheless, in my book, having a rigid default opinion on something because it is the status quo perspective, without the benefit of a specific inquiry into it, is just as dumb because it introduces confirmation bias, which I think is a very serious problem.

So according to this paragraph, I should not listen to certain people because they are ‘quacks.’ And they are ‘quacks’ because you state that whoever argues a position contradictory to the mainstream medical community is a “quack” and therefore not worthy of being heard, which is circular reasoning. The medical community have their own biases, their own internal politics, and powers structures. I have a number of very accomplished doctors in my family, and many of them tell me that there is a very strong disincentive for doctors to go against the grain of established medical theory, even if they have something important to contribute or if they have uncovered something worthy of widespread attention. For this reason, dumb theories like those of Freud go uncontested for years, and to this day form a basis for a lot of modern psychoanalytical theory. Of course, it doesn’t mean that every time someone argues a contradictory opinion it’s correct, but still, it’s a bit bothersome that someone would have to stake their career on it to bring up unusual observations. True, I’m not sure if it could work any other way, but it does make me wonder about what kind of theories have been shot down without being given a fair shake.

Anyway, I am not a conspiracy theorist, but you have to be critical about the psychological, political, and financial makeup of any organization that does research or advocates any particular position on anything. Maybe that means we can’t have certainty of knowledge most of the time, which I know is probably disappointing.

Fair enough. I can respect that you did research, and I am willing to hear someone out about their research, and what they’ve uncovered. But I don’t know you and I don’t know anything about you. Saying you’ve “done research” on its own doesn’t really mean much to me. Political think-tanks do research. It doesn’t mean that they don’t twist, omit, or otherwise ignore facts that run counter to what they are trying to prove, what they already “know.” And what about their sources? Could those authors have also suffered from the same problem? And besides, plenty of people write books about stuff they have researched extensively; should this mean, then, that every well-researched book on a single topic shares the exact same opinions? Of course not. I bet I can find a pair of people who have written multiple books on colon cleansing and who have completely contradictory opinions on the subject.

In summary, my point is that I believe we have to be cautious when we talk about “knowledge” in such confidence. I believe that we can have strong suspicions, but absolute knowledge? That’s tough. It’s hard to know what you can and can’t trust unless you not only do the research on the subject, but also on the background and paper trails of the people and organizations who have conducted the research.

I do not disagree completely with your point (and in fact, I often play your shrill ‘advocate of scientific theory’ role on a number of what you would call “quack” message boards), but I believe we should on a personal level, strike a balance between being hard-nosed investigators needing proof from traditional sources like research journals and being open to listening to information that may come from non-traditional sources.

I think what you are missing is that there is unlikely to be much, if any, creditable, scientific, peer-reviewed research on colonics because there is no reason for it. It’s time consuming, difficult and expensive to do medical research and pretty much no one is going to waste their resources doing a well-designed study to prove that something so transparently implausible does not, in fact, do any good and may do significant harm.

Added to this is the longstanding and eminently sensible practice in the scientific world of requiring those who espouse controversial and/or implausible theories to undertake the necessary work to prove them.

“Prove me wrong!” is the standard cry of the quack, who of course has no intention of doing a study himself, as it would lower the profit margin and pose a high risk of exposing the quack’s business as fraudulent.

There is also the question of whether some claims made by colon cleansers can even be ethically investigated, should one have the urge (sorry) to do so. The newspaper USA Today ran a series of articles in the late '90s by one of its staffers who had metastatic breast carcinoma, and who was trying out alternative treatments, including a visit to a clinic that offered colon cleansing (this amounted to a testimonial on behalf of the clinic, qualified perhaps by the fact that she died not too long afterwards).
I can’t imagine any reputable researchers putting together a large group of patients with metastatic cancer in order to test the extremely dubious theory that they would benefit from enema therapy, given the unpleasantness and futility involved.

I’m sure there are still “clinics” that will do this (in Mexico?), and their spokesmen even now are probably saying “Prove me wrong!”. :rolleyes:

Cagey, I understand where you’re coming from with the view that science is “dogmatic” on far-out theories. It also observes the same “dogma” on reasonable ones. If you can prove it, you gain acceptance.

A fair definition of a quack is someone who advocates a long-discredited medical treatment based on factual error and implausible theory, in the absence of evidence of effectiveness. And that accurately describes colon cleansing advocates.

Well I’m sorry you feel that way. A lot of what they do must be done to keep an audience. What’s the last successful pure-science show you remember? Anyway, say what you will about the show but they often (and the colon cleansing show was one of them) have very credible, scientific individuals discussing the topic. I can’t remember exactly who it was, but they had a professor of toxicology amongst other doctors discussing why it was, in fact, bullshit.

In the same way you call me “arrogant” I can just as easily call you gullible for initially giving a topic such as colon cleansing the same probability of working as not working. Not every topic initially needs a full scientific investigation of both ways. If I told you tiny green men live in your refrigerator would you immediately say “I’m just going to wait until I have seen studies done both ways to make up my mind.” No, of course not… Unless someone making the claim initially came up with a good enough argument to start a debate.

Bleh, I’m tired of rambling on. This is a lost cause. Stubbornness is also one of the things that stand in the way in the advancement of science. Not every topic needs to be exhausted both ways you know.