# Colonizing space w/o organised religion. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 12, 2010, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colonizing-space-w-o-organised-religion/532201 "2010-03-12T03:36:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colonizing-space-w-o-organised-religion/532201/61 "2010-03-13T16:42:44Z")
We are of course arguing about how many angels can be blasted to a far-off planet if there were angels, spaceships and planets. At some point, the entire premiss is so silly as to simply be diverting us from the critical issues of the day (such as face veils in Quebec). But it is the entire idea that some people should be walled off from the others that annoys me. What hope is there for Blacks and Whites, Gays and Straights, carnivores and vegetarians and of course people with and without face veils from living together if we cannot value each other as people? Segregation is a tired old idea and a foolish one. Society is more interesting, more productive when it has a heady mix of people of all types. An idea that would be foolish when applied to (say) Gay people is just as silly when proposed for religious people. It is an idea that would lead to a crippled and intolerant society. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colonizing-space-w-o-organised-religion/532201/62 "2010-03-13T16:43:44Z")
We are of course arguing about how many angels can be blasted to a far-off planet if there were angels, spaceships and planets. At some point, the entire premiss is so silly as to simply be diverting us from the critical issues of the day (such as face veils in Quebec). But it is the entire idea that some people should be walled off from the others that annoys me. What hope is there for Blacks and Whites, Gays and Straights, carnivores and vegetarians and of course people with and without face veils from living together if we cannot value each other as people? Segregation is a tired old idea and a foolish one. Society is more interesting, more productive when it has a heady mix of people of all types. An idea that would be foolish when applied to (say) Gay people is just as silly when proposed for religious people. It is an idea that would lead to a crippled and intolerant society. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colonizing-space-w-o-organised-religion/532201/63 "2010-03-13T17:13:07Z")
> [@Claude\_Remains](#): > > And he as I said upthread should write books for children on the subject. I admire his outspoken and eloquent views. If only more kids could be saved from the clutches of social pressure. If parents could be charged with child neglect and or endangerment for forcing this delusional outlook upon kids, It would be a better day for this planet. Seeing little kids dress up and go through the motions of this garbage with no clue about what is really being put upon them makes me ill. What utter insanity-completely violates the First Amendment. What you want in reality is only possible in a dictatorship of some sort. ---
**Author:** ![Claude\_Remains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/898d66/32.png) [@Claude\_Remains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claude_Remains)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colonizing-space-w-o-organised-religion/532201/64 "2010-03-15T03:54:45Z")
Good thing you live in the U.S. Curtis. What if you drew the short straw on a suicide bomb mission? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Facts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bb73d2/32.png) [@The\_Facts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Facts)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colonizing-space-w-o-organised-religion/532201/65 "2010-03-15T04:37:22Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > What utter insanity-completely violates the First Amendment. What you want in reality is only possible in a dictatorship of some sort. The USA is, functionally, a dictatorial theocracy. I’d rather see a atheist dictatorship, based on science and reason, than a religious one. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colonizing-space-w-o-organised-religion/532201/66 "2010-03-15T06:05:01Z")
> [@The\_Facts](#): > > The USA is, functionally, a dictatorial theocracy. I’d rather see a atheist dictatorship, based on science and reason, than a religious one. Bullshit. That’s simply, utterly, and in every way wrong. The fact is, anyone who institutes a religious test before allowing someone on a spaceship is an asshole of the first water. I think our constitution says it pretty well: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. Anyone who declares that people of certain religions should be discriminated against is an asshole. You don’t have to like the Quakers, but making a law that says Quakers are second class citizens makes you an asshole. It doesn’t matter if your list of second class citizens includes Quakers, Sunnis, Mormons, Shintoists, Asatru, Catholics, Theosophists, Scientologists, and every other religous group you can think of. Religious discrimination is what caused the religous wars of Europe. Religous freedom is what ended it. And note that when Europe finally instituted religous freedom, not only did all the religous wars vanish, but religion itself began to fade. You want to restart religous violence, go ahead and restart religous discrimination. ---
**Author:** ![Claude\_Remains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/898d66/32.png) [@Claude\_Remains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claude_Remains)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colonizing-space-w-o-organised-religion/532201/67 "2010-03-15T07:40:20Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > not only did all the religous wars vanish, but religion itself began to fade. Then I woke up. MOTHER HUBBARD!!! ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colonizing-space-w-o-organised-religion/532201/68 "2010-03-15T15:03:48Z")
> [@The\_Facts](#): > > The USA is, functionally, a dictatorial theocracy. I’d rather see a atheist dictatorship, based on science and reason, than a religious one. I would disagree. Further, I suspect I know more about dictatorial theocracies than you do. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colonizing-space-w-o-organised-religion/532201/69 "2010-03-15T16:06:39Z")
> [@Claude\_Remains](#): > > Then I woke up. MOTHER HUBBARD!!! But, religion itself **has** faded in Europe, and has been fading for a very long time, though very slowly. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colonizing-space-w-o-organised-religion/532201/70 "2010-03-17T02:16:04Z")
> [@The\_Facts](#): > > The USA is, functionally, a dictatorial theocracy. I’d rather see a atheist dictatorship, based on science and reason, than a religious one. Not really considering atheists are loud and obnoxious as religious fundamentalists here. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colonizing-space-w-o-organised-religion/532201/71 "2010-03-17T02:22:55Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Bullshit. That’s simply, utterly, and in every way wrong. > > The fact is, anyone who institutes a religious test before allowing someone on a spaceship is an asshole of the first water. > > I think our constitution says it pretty well: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. > > Anyone who declares that people of certain religions should be discriminated against is an asshole. You don’t have to like the Quakers, but making a law that says Quakers are second class citizens makes you an asshole. It doesn’t matter if your list of second class citizens includes Quakers, Sunnis, Mormons, Shintoists, Asatru, Catholics, Theosophists, Scientologists, and every other religous group you can think of. Religious discrimination is what caused the religous wars of Europe. Religous freedom is what ended it. And note that when Europe finally instituted religous freedom, not only did all the religous wars vanish, but religion itself began to fade. > > You want to restart religous violence, go ahead and restart religous discrimination. Agree. That’s why I want to put the stupid people on the starship. I said nothing about religion, only stupid people. Since some people are stupid, it should be easy to convince them. Then the rest of us can enjoy freedom of religion or freedom from religion, as our own conscience dictates, and as stated in our constitution. And we will enter a golden age (probably not, but it sounds cool). ---
**Author:** ![Claude\_Remains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/898d66/32.png) [@Claude\_Remains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claude_Remains)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colonizing-space-w-o-organised-religion/532201/72 "2010-03-17T03:47:04Z")
Funny how some run for cover under “The constitution”. My OP asked if Humans, all Humans not just the U.S.A. will ever be free of this \*“self serving, man made bullshit story” that is religion. \*Props to George Carlin. ---
**Author:** ![Claude\_Remains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/898d66/32.png) [@Claude\_Remains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claude_Remains)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colonizing-space-w-o-organised-religion/532201/73 "2010-03-17T05:22:10Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Not really considering atheists are loud and obnoxious as religious fundamentalists here. Cause young sheep bots such as you, having been raised by dyed in the wool elder sheep bots are forcing our hand. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colonizing-space-w-o-organised-religion/532201/74 "2010-03-17T05:26:55Z")
I’m not hiding behind the Constitution as a sacred writ, I’m saying that the principle of religious freedom is an important one. Every decent country on Earth has religous freedom, and every country on Earth without religous freedom is a shithole. Therefore, I contend that a space colony that prohibits freedom of religon will invariably be one kind of shithole or another, and it doesn’t matter whether the enforced religion of that shithole colony is Shintoism, Buddhism, Mormonism, or Atheism, it’s going to be a shithole. How about we let people make up their own minds about things? Thing is, I am an atheist, and I don’t believe in any sort of supernatural beings. I think people who believe in deities, fairies, unicorns, astrology, palmistry, and on and on, are completely wrong. However, I don’t think it’s helpful to make believing in fairies a crime. People disbelieve in fairies when they have no reason to believe in fairies, and they’ll stop believing in other sorts of supernatural entities when they have no reason to believe in them. You can’t wipe out religion simply by declaring that anyone who goes to your colony must profess to not believe in any gods. Religions fill social needs, therefore unless those social needs are met in other ways, religion will creep in. See what happened under Communism. I believe it is likely that someday in the future Chrisitanity and Islam and so on will be considered as silly as belief in Zeus and Apollo. That doesn’t mean we need a law against worshipping Zeus. ---
**Author:** ![Claude\_Remains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/898d66/32.png) [@Claude\_Remains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claude_Remains)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colonizing-space-w-o-organised-religion/532201/75 "2010-03-17T05:51:35Z")
Oh boy, Once again let me say the my OP was asking if Humans will leave religion in the dust of blast off. I’m not interested in earth bound lawmaking and so forth. I once opened a thread asking if Star Trek has dealt with religion in the future. I am just wondering if in the future of Humans no matter where we go, religion will come up in a game of trivia and be a stummper. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colonizing-space-w-o-organised-religion/532201/76 "2010-03-17T06:06:11Z")
Well, what’s all this talk about not allowing people who believe in God to get on the spaceships then? If we ever have large scale space colonization, I expect that the space colonists will be largely representative of the societies that send the colonists. If the future societies are largely nonreligious, so will the colonists. If religion is still a powerful force, then the colonists will likely be religious people. However, there could be some sorting mechanism. Maybe religious folks will preferentially try to flee the secular society, or the reverse. But if the Earth is awash in religiosity by the time we’re blasting off for Alpha Centauri, then plenty of religious folks are going to be on that starship. Who’s paying for the starship anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Claude\_Remains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/898d66/32.png) [@Claude\_Remains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claude_Remains)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colonizing-space-w-o-organised-religion/532201/77 "2010-03-17T07:01:23Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Well, what’s all this talk about not allowing people who believe in God to get on the spaceships then? Are you just being willfully obtuse? What part of the OP-“Will Humans ever be able to drop it like a hot potato no matter where we go”? Has me in your mind at the boarding gate of a starship weeding people out? Yeah, I made a post about my current feeling of outrage on the subject. I guess I cant blame you for not thinking about the future when you’re staring straight out of yer ass. Have a nice yesterday.😉 ---
**Author:** ![Claude\_Remains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/898d66/32.png) [@Claude\_Remains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claude_Remains)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colonizing-space-w-o-organised-religion/532201/78 "2010-03-17T07:55:02Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > People disbelieve in fairies when they have no reason to believe in fairies, and they’ll stop believing in other sorts of supernatural entities when they have no reason to believe in them. Having taken the time to re-read your post and crack the wallnut to expose the meat, You do see what I’m getting at, right? ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colonizing-space-w-o-organised-religion/532201/79 "2010-03-17T14:20:19Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I can do better than that: Organized religion will benefit our Mars colony because the alternative is disorganized religion. Better the devil you know than the devil you don’t. Or god, as the case may be. Religion benefits no one except the ones at the top raking off the cream. It’s a scam from start to finish, and it is the one thing that humans have invented that has caused the most damage to humanity as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colonizing-space-w-o-organised-religion/532201/80 "2010-03-17T15:17:25Z")
> [@Claude\_Remains](#): > > Cause young sheep bots such as you, having been raised by dyed in the wool elder sheep bots are forcing our hand. > [@Claude\_Remains](#): > > I guess I cant blame you for not thinking about the future when you’re staring straight out of yer ass. **Claude Remains** , you’ve been warned before about insulting other posters and you’re getting close to doing it again. Back off and please continue without the personal comments. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colonizing-space-w-o-organised-religion/532201.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colonizing-space-w-o-organised-religion/532201.md?page=5)