# Color WWII film footage: Was it really "lost"? How? Why? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 25, 2007, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/color-wwii-film-footage-was-it-really-lost-how-why/416876 "2007-08-25T05:49:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![stuyguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@stuyguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuyguy)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2007, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/color-wwii-film-footage-was-it-really-lost-how-why/416876/1 "2007-08-25T05:49:55Z")
As I type this I am watching a WWII documentary on PBS that features all color footage. It inspired the following question. I grew up in the 1960s, '70s and '80s watching only black and white WWII footage in historical documentaries. Then sometime in the 1990’s (IIRC) a trove of unseen color footage that had been shot during the war was unearthed. Now, when you see WWII historical documentaries, large portions will feature moving color images. Where did this new footage come from? How could such prime footage have been lost or forgotten? What gives here? Thanks all, in advance. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2007, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/color-wwii-film-footage-was-it-really-lost-how-why/416876/2 "2007-08-25T06:22:17Z")
No specific facts here, I’m afraid. Having said that, about the 1990s audiences seemed to me to demand color, even in historical footage, if it were available. My understanding was that there was a percentage of footage shot during WWII using color film, but because the film was more sensitive and expensive it wasn’t as common as black and white. I’m not going to claim to have seen all color combat footage from WWII, but the impression I’ve had is that it’s mostly the same three or four very dramatic loops of film, just being used endlessly, in part because modern audiences don’t want to see b&w footage. No cite for it, just my impression. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2007, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/color-wwii-film-footage-was-it-really-lost-how-why/416876/3 "2007-08-25T06:32:09Z")
The funny thing was that lots of war footage was shot in color, I particularly remember that color was preferred as the film used in bombers and fighters at the beginning of 1943 as it was very important for damage assessment, information and training. When the footage came to the news producers of the day, any color film was reproduced in B&W for the Newsreels and it was the newsreels and the still prevalent B&W movies of the day that everybody remembers. > **[The Perilous Fight . Rediscovering the Film | PBS](http://www.pbs.org/perilousfight/rediscovering/)** > > Finding original color film of World War II > [@](#): > > In 1941, as America entered World War II, there were 1,000 televisions in use in the USA, Hollywood was only beginning to experiment with color film, and most Americans received their news through the radio. During the war, film was used by the military, not for distribution to the public, but to document the war effort for military purposes. Realistic color added a new dimension to imagery, one that proved invaluable to the United States government. > [@](#): > > While the European campaign was almost completely shot in black and white, the Marines exclusively used color film. The campaign in the Pacific was the most heavily documented during the war. Color films such as The Battle of Midway were distributed to solicit public support of the war effort and dramatically increased the purchase of war bonds. Color was by no means standard or familiar to the American audience. Most films and newsreels that were shot in color were not distributed in color; they were transferred to black-and-white stock or archived by the military. > It wasn’t until the late 1970’s that the National Archives in Washington, D.C. received film holdings from World War II. For many reasons, color film remained undiscovered; poor record-keeping, the assumption that most film originals were in black and white and the time required by researchers to find the color stock kept the public from seeing color film from World War II. > **[The Perilous Fight: America's World War II in Color | PBS](http://www.pbs.org/perilousfight/)** The Perilous Fight. America’s World War II in Color. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2007, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/color-wwii-film-footage-was-it-really-lost-how-why/416876/4 "2007-08-25T07:32:06Z")
Yeah, you know that final scene in _Raiders_? It isn’t so very far from the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2007, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/color-wwii-film-footage-was-it-really-lost-how-why/416876/5 "2007-08-25T16:56:07Z")
A quibble about that “1,000” television reference: About 7,000-8,000 electronic sets were made in the U.S. before the War Production Board halted manufacture in April 1942. Some wartime documentary features that were released in color: The Battle of Midway (1942) Report from the Aleutians (1943) [The Fighting Lady](http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0036823/) (1944) [The Last Bomb](http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0037861/) (1945) Most were shot on 16mm Kodachrome and enlarged to 35mm Technicolor. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2007, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/color-wwii-film-footage-was-it-really-lost-how-why/416876/6 "2007-08-25T17:42:42Z")
[QUOTE=Walloon] Some wartime documentary features that were released in color: [/QUOTE] [_The Memphis Belle: A Story of a Flying Fortress_](http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0036152/) ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2007, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/color-wwii-film-footage-was-it-really-lost-how-why/416876/7 "2007-08-25T17:47:12Z")
[Lots more World War II in color](http://www.ww2incolor.com/). ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2007, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/color-wwii-film-footage-was-it-really-lost-how-why/416876/8 "2007-08-25T17:59:33Z")
I seem to recall that during one invasion a bunch of color film was shot, but then almost all of it was inadvertently destroyed (during processing maybe?). My Google-fu is weak this morning. Does anyone else remember this? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2007, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/color-wwii-film-footage-was-it-really-lost-how-why/416876/9 "2007-08-25T21:57:54Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] Yeah, you know that final scene in _Raiders_? It isn’t so very far from the truth. [/QUOTE] Says the guy opposed to [whooshes in GQ](http://tinyurl.com/2mfj4o) Doctor, are you seriously claiming that the government is holding the Ark in storage somewhere? And what does that have to do with the topic anyway? ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2007, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/color-wwii-film-footage-was-it-really-lost-how-why/416876/10 "2007-08-25T22:04:10Z")
[QUOTE=Peter Morris] Says the guy opposed to [whooshes in GQ](http://tinyurl.com/2mfj4o) Doctor, are you seriously claiming that the government is holding the Ark in storage somewhere? And what does that have to do with the topic anyway? [/QUOTE] I took it to be a very on point comment about how the Germans had set up lighting, and cameras, to record the revealing of the Ark of the Covenant. Visual records were made of all sorts of things during WWII. By both sides. ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2007, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/color-wwii-film-footage-was-it-really-lost-how-why/416876/11 "2007-08-25T22:44:53Z")
[QUOTE=Peter Morris] Says the guy opposed to [whooshes in GQ](http://tinyurl.com/2mfj4o) Doctor, are you seriously claiming that the government is holding the Ark in storage somewhere? And what does that have to do with the topic anyway? [/QUOTE] I took his comment as a serious observation on the archiving abilities of the US Government. It has nothing to do with a fictional ark, a lot to do with large warehouses of documents and artifacts lost in long aisles. Just ask NASA. They are still looking for the original video of the first moon landing. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2007, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/color-wwii-film-footage-was-it-really-lost-how-why/416876/12 "2007-08-25T22:51:33Z")
[QUOTE=OtakuLoki] I took it to be a very on point comment about how the Germans had set up lighting, and cameras, to record the revealing of the Ark of the Covenant. Visual records were made of all sorts of things during WWII. By both sides. [/QUOTE] That wasn’t the final scene. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2007, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/color-wwii-film-footage-was-it-really-lost-how-why/416876/13 "2007-08-25T22:53:14Z")
[QUOTE=Garfield226] That wasn’t the final scene. [/QUOTE] You’re right - I conflated “final” with “climactic” in my mind. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2007, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/color-wwii-film-footage-was-it-really-lost-how-why/416876/14 "2007-08-26T02:21:12Z")
[QUOTE=rbroome] I took his comment as a serious observation on the archiving abilities of the US Government. It has nothing to do with a fictional ark, a lot to do with large warehouses of documents and artifacts lost in long aisles. Just ask NASA. They are still looking for the original video of the first moon landing. [/QUOTE] Exactly. My Dad did some of that after WWII, when he was still in the Army for a short time, after he got back home but before he was discharged. He said no one really knew what was being stored away, and _he_ said “Yes, yes, that’s not so far from the truth” when we saw the film together. My answer was in no way a whoosh. Of course the Ark isn’t stored away in some WWII period warehouse, but there is still stuff coming out of storage and classification. ---
**Author:** ![Fir\_na\_tine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fir\_na\_tine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fir_na_tine)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2007, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/color-wwii-film-footage-was-it-really-lost-how-why/416876/15 "2007-08-27T14:06:57Z")
A couple of years ago the Discovery channel or the History Channel ran one of their Pearl Harbor specials. There’s a standard black and white film of the Arizona exploding that has this enormous dark smoke cloud rising from the ship, followed pretty closely by it’s sinking. That clip has appeared in dozens if not hundreds of movies. They had found the original film, it was in color and they ran that. The “enormous dark smoke cloud” is in fact one hellacious ball of fire from the exploding magazine. The film clip carries so much more of an impact in color. You know immediately that anyone on board is pretty much doomed. ---
**Author:** ![HumanMonkeyGod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c67d28/32.png) [@HumanMonkeyGod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HumanMonkeyGod)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2007, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/color-wwii-film-footage-was-it-really-lost-how-why/416876/16 "2007-08-28T20:25:25Z")
Sort of related, but I recently came across some pics of troops in trenches in WWI - in color. Being the internet-savvy fellow I am, I immediately presumed “Photoshop”. Am I mistaken? Could they be real color pics from WWI? ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2007, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/color-wwii-film-footage-was-it-really-lost-how-why/416876/17 "2007-08-28T20:32:50Z")
Yes, the photos were taken in color for the French government, using the [Autochrome](http://www.autochrome.com/Autochrome-centenaire/Accueil.html) process introduced in 1907. [More on Autochrome](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autochrome). [World War I color photos](http://www.worldwaronecolorphotos.com/). ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2007, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/color-wwii-film-footage-was-it-really-lost-how-why/416876/18 "2007-08-28T20:36:02Z")
[QUOTE=HumanMonkeyGod] Sort of related, but I recently came across some pics of troops in trenches in WWI - in color. Being the internet-savvy fellow I am, I immediately presumed “Photoshop”. Am I mistaken? Could they be real color pics from WWI? [/QUOTE] I don’t know that there **are** color photos from WWI. Having said that some early photographic processes in the 1800s were color. [Cite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_photography#Color_photography). It’s interesting to me that one of the images in that Wikipedia article is a color photograph from 1915, presumably from other than the _Autochrome_ process mentioned above. On preview: Not quite the same information that **Walloon** posted, so I’m going to add it anyways. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2007, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/color-wwii-film-footage-was-it-really-lost-how-why/416876/19 "2007-08-28T20:36:49Z")
Pre-World War I [Czarist Russia in color](http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/empire/). ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2007, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/color-wwii-film-footage-was-it-really-lost-how-why/416876/20 "2007-08-28T22:43:14Z")
[QUOTE=Rick] seem to recall that during one invasion a bunch of color film was shot, but then almost all of it was inadvertently destroyed (during processing maybe?). My Google-fu is weak this morning. Does anyone else remember this? [/QUOTE] Sure you’re not half-remembering the story of [Robert Capa on D-Day](http://www.skylighters.org/photos/robertcapa.html); as far as I know, all his film was black and white. Despite the actual amount of surviving colour film and photographs being widely unappreciated, that’s not to say that TV producers won’t stoop to “enhancing” monochrome material. In the UK, Five recently screened an otherwise okay documentary _Italian Fascism: Revealed_ in which all the footage had been colourised without saying so. Watching the programme, it was obvious to me that that was what had been done, but others were fooled. As for the justification, from [_The Times_’s review](http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/tv_and_radio/article2021047.ece): > [@](#): > > I once met a film PR who excused herself for not knowing who James Stewart was by saying she never watched black and white films. I was reminded of her watching Italian Fascism: Revealed, which boasted it was telling the story “for the first time in colour”. But this was not newly-found colour archive film – as in ITV’s The Second World War in Colour – but monochrome film colourised. When I contacted the producer, Ian Lilley, he told me that black and white does not go down well with viewers these days. But he had few qualms about doctoring wartime footage since “95 per cent” of it was faked anyway, in the sense that scenes were reenacted for the cameras. I was amazed. Any takers for a documentary called The Second World War: Faked? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/color-wwii-film-footage-was-it-really-lost-how-why/416876.md?page=2)