# Colorless Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 2, 2009, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729 "2009-12-02T18:21:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/281 "2009-12-08T14:58:03Z")
It doesn’t make any freakin’ sense for **amrussell** to offer himself up to the rest of the scum for busing when no one had more than one vote at the time. Why communicate a risky public message that doesn’t need to be communicated? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/282 "2009-12-08T15:02:54Z")
Not feeling the **amrussell** lynch right now, or the **Freudian** lynch, for that matter. I think for the moment I’ll **vote pedescribe** for being a bit too quick to jump at **Drain** ’s misparsing of **amrussell** ’s post. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/283 "2009-12-08T15:05:13Z")
NETA **vote pedescribe** (putting it on a line by itself per the mod’s request) ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/284 "2009-12-08T15:38:21Z")
I’m quite busy at work and with my daughter, who just had her 1st birthday. However, while I have not posted a ton, I am following the game carefully and taking notes. I’ll share some observations later, but I don’t have any particularly strong suspicions at this point. Anyway, more later. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/285 "2009-12-08T15:51:33Z")
BTW, I also need to get a bunch of work done. I’m going to do a full re-read before the end of the day and quite possibly change my vote, but I wanted to get something on the record before the last minute. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/286 "2009-12-08T18:21:04Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > and **skeez** we may very well have to agree to disagree but giving up a vig a doc or an rb in exchange for a scum or sk (20 percent of our threats) seems like a good payoff. and depending where we are in game state even giving up the detec may very well be the appropriate play. > > now having said all that it is ultimately up to those roles to decide their proper course of action. Catching up slowly, commenting as I go. May be duplicating the contributions of others. If someone false claims Vig and you are the Vig, do not counterclaim them. You will have a much better and simpler way of handling them than counterclaiming. A Vig false claim is almost certainly not going to happen, for this very reason, but you never know. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/287 "2009-12-08T18:32:57Z")
Here’s an interesting post. > [@Rin\_Twisted](#): > > Guys- the amount of time we’re spending over this is mind blowing. This is not an important point to get stuck on- hell, it won’t even matter much until D2. I’m not sure where this discussion went downhill, but I sense a scummish influence behind it, and keeping it going. FOS Pede, Peeker, Toejam, and everyone who keeps this game theory mess going. OK. I don’t agree with this, because in all the times I’ve played this game I’ve never once seen Scum use talking about game mechanic issues as a way to bog down discussion, in spite of how often we suggest that they might. So I don’t agree with the FOS on the participants in this discussion, but disagreeing with me does not equal scummy. Let’s read on. > [@](#): > > That said, I thought Malahoth responded to Peeker’s pressure vote (at least, I assume it was a pressure vote?) pretty well- he didn’t really seem to get over excited and defensive. Unlike some of you, who seem to get your hackles raised awfully fast over Peeker’s aggressive style of play. Another sort of aggressive post. Cool. Putting pressure on the players who are putting pressure on **peeker**. I like your style, here, **Rin**. > [@](#): > > I’d say it’s more scummy, because aggressiveness is not really a scumtell at all. And again. Implying that the people coming after peek for his aggressiveness are more scummy than peek himself. Taking a stand. Very cool. > [@](#): > > I’d find it more scummy for him to make a stink and not vote after that. This early in the day, you can put someone on the hotspot and watch them squirm, and see what comes up. I TOTALLY agree with you here, **Rin**. Making a post where you put folks on the hotseat in order to watch them squirm, while withholding your own vote to give you flexibility regarding where to put it, that’s a pretty sneaky Scum trick. On a completely unrelated note, where’s your vote? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/288 "2009-12-08T18:40:55Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > I thought I had seen something, but it was actually nothing. I think eagerness to vote for someone to get suspicion off yourself and your compatriots is a pretty scummy tell. And trying to jump onto bandwagons (going along with **Drain Bead** and voting for **amrussell** even when **Drain** herself didn’t want to vote) seems scummy. For that reason **vote pedescribe** ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/289 "2009-12-08T18:46:19Z")
> [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > Just throwing out my suspicions right now. It’ll be brief, since at this late hour I’m way too lazy to dig up all the relevant quotes. Right now it’s **freudian slit** , **Guiri** and **amrussell**. (No particular order). > > **freudian slit** : You seem to be escalating your defensive stance in a manner that is not in proporation to the simple questions and confusions that have been brought up with regards to your interactions with peeker. This seems more suspicious than any actual opinion that you’ve made; more simply put it could be me reacting poorly to your style of play. I’m sorry I’ve been defensive. I admit, I’m coming off that way–it’s just that in general I guess I tend to take it somewhat personally when people “attack” me. I’ve done it in the past with **Idle Thoughts** who really got under my skin. Plus I’ve been dealing with some off board stress, so I apologize if I’m being cantankerous. I admit, I see people questioning or voting for me and I start to feel people are being mean when they’re just playing the game. > [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > :rolleyes: I’m really starting to think that I should just post assholish diatribes every time someone posts something innocuous. Then maybe I’ll get people defending me as vehemently as they have been with **peeker**. > [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > **peeker** , you said something (feeding baby so can’t go back to search) about how you’d lynch the hell out of the first person who brought up the whole Miller thing. So why are you not voting for **Freudian** right now? My reactions to **Drain Bead** , to you, **Red** , and, as you have all seen, to **peeker** have been kinda obnoxious–mostly it’s that I think I’m just being kind of sensitive, and stuff like this REALLY sets me off… And I think I need to take a breath, step back, play the game with a little less of a parnaoid everyone is against me mentality. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/290 "2009-12-08T18:48:06Z")
Following up on my previous post: **vote Rin Twisted** I think she’s done more or less exactly what she’s accused _others_ of doing: stirred a little mud, withheld her vote, waited to see which direction the current was flowing then using her vote in that direction. This sort of playstyle isn’t always indicative of Scum to me (though it often is), but when you couple it with posts that explicitly _decry_ this sort of playstyle _as_ Scummy… Well, it suggests to me that **Rin Twisted** warrants more scrutiny than she is currently receiving. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/291 "2009-12-08T19:20:35Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > Catching up slowly, commenting as I go. May be duplicating the contributions of others. > > If someone false claims Vig and you are the Vig, do not counterclaim them. You will have a much better and simpler way of handling them than counterclaiming. > > A Vig false claim is almost certainly not going to happen, for this very reason, but you never know. The only thing about that is, if the Doc is still alive and no other power roles have been exposed, wouldn’t the doc logically protect a claimed vig? ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/292 "2009-12-08T19:26:20Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > The only thing about that is, if the Doc is still alive and no other power roles have been exposed, wouldn’t the doc logically protect a claimed vig? Not in the longer term. If the Vig claims, scum doesn’t have to kill him, just keep roleblocking him until another power comes forward. In fact, it would seem to be dumb play for scum to kill the claimed vig if they have their own vig claim still out there and unsettled since the role reveal and known role counts would create a mod confirmed lie. ---
**Author:** ![Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanook_of_the_North_Shore)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/293 "2009-12-08T19:45:00Z")
A Doc may or may not protect them, it depends if the Doc believed the claim and what other, if any, roles were revealed. Vig is funny though. People are often quick to disbelieve a Vig claim, thinking it’s an “easy” false claim for scum. But it really isn’t. There are huge risks to false claiming it, mainly relating to the fact that the real Vig doesn’t have to counter claim you, they can just take care of business. Really, in this paticular game I’m not super worried about false claims of anything other than Vanilla. We know what roles exist, and we know how many there are. A 1 for 1 trade is good for Town at any time other than LyLo, and I would expect us to have most or all roles outted before we get to LyLo one way or another. Peeker is doing what I expect peeker to do on Day 1. It’s a null tell at this point. And yes, peeker has been lynched as scum before. In the just completed game on idle he was, and it had nothing to do with an investigator. He claimed a variation on his actual scum role, but the choices he claimed to make(claimed paranoid doc) didn’t fit with a Townie playing the role. They only made sense for a scum. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/294 "2009-12-08T20:05:48Z")
> [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > Not in the longer term. If the Vig claims, scum doesn’t have to kill him, just keep roleblocking him until another power comes forward. In fact, it would seem to be dumb play for scum to kill the claimed vig if they have their own vig claim still out there and unsettled since the role reveal and known role counts would create a mod confirmed lie. I’m not sure I understand this. You mean in the case the real Vig counter-claims a scum false-claimed Vig, scum wouldn’t need to kill the counter-claimer, but just block him/her instead until one of the two is lynched? If so, wouldn’t Town want to clarify the situation a little faster than that and, with the real Vig’s claimed kills, have at least some idea which of the two is telling the truth and lynch the other? Then scum would be pretty quick to get rid of the real one, right? Or have I missed something in your reasoning? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/295 "2009-12-08T21:07:27Z")
**Vote Count** with about 2 days, 4 hours and 53 minutes to go 12 Votes required to start Countdown. (peak vote in Parenthesis) **3 Votes** \ ***Pedescribe** (3 #288) ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies (86), Tom Scud (282), Freudian Slip (288) **2 Votes** \*\*amrussell \*\*(2 #218) Pedescribe (208 235), Rin Twisted (218), ToeJam (272) **1 Vote** **Mahaloth** (1 #135) peekercpa (135) **Freduian Slit** (1 #230) Zeriel (230) **Rin Twisted** (1 #290) storyteller0910 (290) \ ***Lynch Leader** **Not Voting** : Mahaloth, Nanook, Drain Bead, USCDiver, DiggitCamara, Ichini Sanshigo, Red Skeezix, MHaye, amrussel, GuiriEnEspaña, Mental Guy, pedescribe ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/296 "2009-12-08T21:37:40Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > I’m not sure I understand this. You mean in the case the real Vig counter-claims a scum false-claimed Vig, scum wouldn’t need to kill the counter-claimer, but just block him/her instead until one of the two is lynched? As long as both the fake vig and real vig are alive, scum doesn’t need to kill the real vig. In fact doing so, forces town to lynch the fake one the next day. > [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > If so, wouldn’t Town want to clarify the situation a little faster than that and, with the real Vig’s claimed kills, have at least some idea which of the two is telling the truth and lynch the other? Maybe, maybe not. Odds are each party will claim kills and provide reasonable reasons for killing them. Town may choose wrong, and lynch the real vig. There’s no guarantee there. > [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > Then scum would be pretty quick to get rid of the real one, right? > > Or have I missed something in your reasoning? If town has identified the real one (who could still be the SK). And that role is the only outed role, then that role is probably under protection. Why would they risk losing a NK for that, when they could just roleblock him? ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/297 "2009-12-08T22:17:55Z")
@ **Red** , gotcha, makes sense now, thanks. I thought we’d gone full-circle back to **Peeker** ’s initial reasoning. /sorry for the sidetrack ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/298 "2009-12-08T22:21:46Z")
**Vote Freudian** Gonna be busy the next few days, want to get a vote down just in case. Voting for threadskimming and general overdefensiveness. Not much, but on Day One I never have much to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/299 "2009-12-08T22:24:53Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > **Vote Count** with about 3 days, 4 hours and 8 minutes to go > 12 Votes required to start Countdown. > [@special\_ed](#): > > I plan on using a 12-hour countdown timer for the lynch is a player reaches 1+(half the number of players) in votes (with a 5 day maximum for the Day). Nights will last 48 hours. Night actions can be submitted in advance. \*\* Isn’t half of twenty plus one eleven, not twelve?\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/300 "2009-12-08T22:43:35Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > \*\* > Isn’t half of twenty plus one eleven, not twelve?\*\* I believe that he changed it and clarified in the official rules that its half +2 now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729.md?page=16)