# Colorless Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 2, 2009, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729 "2009-12-02T18:21:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/301 "2009-12-08T22:47:01Z")
> [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > I believe that he changed it and clarified in the official rules that its half +2 now. Thanks…do you have a link to that post? ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/302 "2009-12-08T22:52:53Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > 1. There will be a hammering procedure. If a player has 2 more than 50% of the players voting for him, an 18-24 hour countdown timer will begin (depending on the time to make it convenient for the moderators). snipped, because it’s a huge post. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/303 "2009-12-08T23:24:18Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Thanks…do you have a link to that post? just remember, post 67 ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/304 "2009-12-09T00:00:31Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > **peeker** , you said something (feeding baby so can’t go back to search) about how you’d lynch the hell out of the first person who brought up the whole Miller thing. So why are you not voting for **Freudian** right now? the way i read her (?) comment and based on subsequent interactions is that she missed the entire point of my initial post. now the fact that it only took a bunch of iterations for her (?) to finally get what i was trying to say makes it seem like a townie getting frustrated. go read screamers and Day one when i was getting ready to go apopalectic on folks not understanding what i was saying about **tom**. that’s how i am reading **freud**. she didn’t seem to be wanting to talk about a non existant role to muddy things but kind of got sucked into a conversation that went awry. also, the fact that she hung on in the face of other folks makes it smell town to me. also, i don’t see a scum being so cavalier with the written word to try to make any case that will ultimately prove tenuous. a scum caught in that position would normally back away quickly and move elsewhere, my two cents. now she still gets some backwash for the whole “skim” thing but not enough to warrant a vote, at least from me. and this **amrussell** trying to breadcrumb seems ludicrous on the face of it. maybe scum don’t know who is who in the overall scheme of powers and shit but they sure know who each other are. i just can’t see any value to them trying to do some half ass breadcrumbed communication. so seeing the comments on the whole should/would/could word is kind of fascinating. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/305 "2009-12-09T00:26:06Z")
FWIW, that is what went down with me since it just felt like everything I said was being interpreted in a weird way, and it kept pissing me off more and more and more. Thanks for being willing to listen, **peeker**. I’m starting to think that you’re not such a knee jerk scary dude. But hey, if you still want to keep your vote on me, **Drain** , go ahead. Though frankly I’m getting a little sick of the “Poster x voices a suspicion about poster Y, Poster Z jumps on it and immediately votes for Poster Y” thing. It seems to be happening with you, and it seemed like **pedescribe** ’s whole basis for voting for **amrussell**. > [@pedescribe](#): > > I thought I had seen something, but it was actually nothing. This, to me, screams of someone being called on a stupid reason for voting and then quickly backing off. Scum often tend to be cautious and backing off quickly to avoid being caught out seems like a tell to me. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/306 "2009-12-09T01:03:47Z")
and one other metagame observation to make just to add fuel to the fire. what i have seen as scum is that the will tussle it up a bit early on and if they catch heat they either back of or just go silent. crap, in space we basically just told **skeezy** to be quiet after he garnered some early suspicion and let it blow over. it worked, btw. and regarding slips. sure stuff happens. see **pleo** in the above referenced game. but normally that stuff is a result of just getting ideas out there that may not be the most well thought out position or wording to have taken. shoot, as scum i always wrote a post. smoked a squag. came back and re-read said post and edited. smoke another squag. lather, rinse repeat. just another little peek observation. and btw, **freud** you are not exonerated in my book at all. just that you don’t warrant a vote, for now. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/307 "2009-12-09T01:14:53Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > This, to me, screams of someone being called on a stupid reason for voting and then quickly backing off. Yes! Congratulations on figuring out exactly what I told you! I backed off the vote because it was stupid. I have a history of jumping on slips of the tongue (because it tends to work), I saw an accusation of such, I was really indecisive about peeker at the time. I voted. It was a hasty Day 1 vote. Hell, I even pointed out that it was hasty. And so I removed the vote, when I realized that the slip was not a slip. Seriously, what do you expect me to do, keep it there? Do you think that it would look **townie** for me to defend a stupid vote that I don’t believe in? No, no it would not! Ya know what, screw it. **Vote Peeker** I was ready to vote him last time I was in this thread, but I’ve been trying to be less aggressive this game–since aggression got me lynched Day 1 last game, and almost got me Days 1 & 2 the game before. Apparently, defensive playing doesn’t help either. Anyway, I accuse Peeker of being deliberately obtuse in an effort to engulf the town in a stupid argument. Note that it isn’t just the argument with me I’m referring to, but a pattern. First he brought up millers, preemptively threatening anyone who brought them up. Then, when FS responded, he attacked her for bringing up millers! That could have easily exploded into a Day-consuming argument. And for those of you who say that no Scum would deliberately provoke arguments as a distraction–yes it is an odd move. But think about it. If anyone would do it, could do it, it would be Peekercpa. He’s known for being aggressive, and famous for being strange to the point of near-illegibility. If anyone calls him on it, he (or his scum-buddies) can fall back on the old ‘peeker’s just being peeker’ argument. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/308 "2009-12-09T01:55:39Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > Yes! Congratulations on figuring out exactly what I told you! > > I backed off the vote because it was stupid. I have a history of jumping on slips of the tongue (because it tends to work), I saw an accusation of such, I was really indecisive about peeker at the time. I voted. It was a hasty Day 1 vote. Hell, I even pointed out that it was hasty. And so I removed the vote, when I realized that the slip was not a slip. Seriously, what do you expect me to do, keep it there? Do you think that it would look **townie** for me to defend a stupid vote that I don’t believe in? No, no it would not! > > Ya know what, screw it. > > **Vote Peeker** [color] > > I was ready to vote him last time I was in this thread, but I’ve been trying to be less aggressive this game–since aggression got me lynched Day 1 last game, and almost got me Days 1 & 2 the game before. Apparently, defensive playing doesn’t help either. > > Anyway, I accuse Peeker of being deliberately obtuse in an effort to engulf the town in a stupid argument. Note that it isn’t just the argument with me I’m referring to, but a pattern. First he brought up millers, preemptively threatening anyone who brought them up. Then, when FS responded, he attacked her for bringing up millers! That could have easily exploded into a Day-consuming argument. And for those of you who say that no Scum would deliberately provoke arguments as a distraction–yes it is an odd move. But think about it. If anyone would do it, could do it, it would be Peekercpa. He’s known for being aggressive, and famous for being strange to the point of near-illegibility. If anyone calls him on it, he (or his scum-buddies) can fall back on the old ‘peeker’s just being peeker’ argument. \ kind of what i figured. either you are lying, skimming or just being deliberately obtuse. i think it has been well established that i never brought up millers (except as an example of what would not be in this game). and you would know that if you are reading along. so if you think talking about a role that is explicitly not in this game is helpful then why not chia bingo masters for goodness sakes. our disagreement is also a strawman. you made a statement that was complete bullshit. i called you on it and you finally waffled and agreed with me. your comment about scum notification of what happens to their Night actions is utter and complete nonsense bsed on my experience. the near-illegibility is also a strawman. wonder why so many other folks get what i am saying and not you? **ped** you have invariably been a better player than this and so can’t figure if you are off your feed or what? oooh, oooh Mr. Kotter i think i figured it out. **[color=red]unvote mahadada** **vote pede**. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/309 "2009-12-09T02:03:37Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > our disagreement is also a strawman. you made a statement that was complete bullshit. i called you on it and you finally waffled and agreed with me. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/310 "2009-12-09T02:09:33Z")
**Vote Count** with about 1 day, 23 hours and 51 minutes to go 12 Votes required to start Countdown. (peak vote in Parenthesis) **4 Votes** \ ***Pedescribe** (4 #308) ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies (86), Tom Scud (282), Freudian Slip (288), peekercpa (308) **2 Votes** \*\*amrussell \*\*(2 #218) Pedescribe (208 235), Rin Twisted (218), ToeJam (272) **Freduian Slit** (2 #298) Zeriel (230), Drain Bead (298) **1 Vote** **Rin Twisted** (1 #290) storyteller0910 (290) \*\*peekercpa \*\*(1 #307) pedescribe (307) **0 Votes** **Mahaloth** (1 #135) peekercpa (135 308) \ ***Lynch Leader** **Not Voting** : Mahaloth, Nanook, USCDiver, DiggitCamara, Ichini Sanshigo, Red Skeezix, MHaye, amrussel, GuiriEnEspaña, Mental Guy ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/311 "2009-12-09T02:24:15Z")
Can we get the people who aren’t talking so much to say something? No lurking. In particular I don’t recall seeing much from Nanook, USCDiver, MHaye, Ichini Sanshigo, or Mental Guy ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/312 "2009-12-09T02:24:23Z")
This is a boon for us, since it means it will be as hard for the scum team to piece together what happened after a single-kill or no-kill Night as it will be for us. 129 **pede** , 129. now we went round and round with this. to do so would be repetitive but what in the world. this is bullshit. let’s recap. if a kill does not go through for a group or individual that person will know that. i’ll type slow. if you are a member of scum and your kill does not go through you will either know that you were blocked or that your target was protected. and with an rb on their team they will be able to conclude that the person they blocked was not either the blocker or doc. that is information that town will just not have. as a totally innocent town you will know nothing. the scum will gain information. ipso fucto the non killing faction will have more information than a niller. now your come back was along the lines that since the non killing action person(s) will not know whether they were blocked or whether their target was protected that uh, yeh sure they will know something just not as much as they would have if they were also given the reason why their kill failed. i agreed with that point with the caveat that i had never seen that information given to a failed killer in the games that i had played in. so you waffled on your original statement and qualified it with a mechanism that i have never encountered. i call bullshit. now i guess you could take the **freud** approach and go whoops. but you keep wanting to argue against the statements you made which just seems scummy as all hell. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/313 "2009-12-09T02:32:01Z")
and btw it’s post 160 where you finally agree that they would have more information, just not as much in your theoretical hen’s tooth example of how scum are notified about their Night actions. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/314 "2009-12-09T02:37:07Z")
and that is just a couple posts after 156 where you state: **ped** ’s quote \ _that because the scum can narrow down the information less, they have more information. Which is ridiculous._ so **ped** just admit to being blatantly inconsistent or deliberately misleading. the first is just poor town play the second is much more ominous. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/315 "2009-12-09T02:56:32Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > and that is just a couple posts after 156 where you state: > \ > so **ped** just admit to being blatantly inconsistent or deliberately misleading. the first is just poor town play the second is much more ominous. Thats a false dichotomy if i’ve ever seen one. Also, Cookies, you threw out that first vote what I consider to be quite early. Justification for the vote: Other votes have been broader and rested on less suspicion. Since then you’ve sat back and relaxed and thrown out a few innocuous comments as town has been gutting each other all day. It’s exactly the kind of thing scum strives for on day 1. A whole lot of chaos that’s fallout only lands on townies. **vote ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies** ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/316 "2009-12-09T03:36:33Z")
Oh contrare. That was not the justification for my vote. That was defending a Day 1 vote based on a player making a single dubious statement. The justification for my vote is that **pede** (in post [#84](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11855043&postcount=84)) offered what I consider to be a baseless and false 50/50 dichotomy about the potential alignment of **Mr. Scud**. Further, prior to this out of the blue vote from you, aside from **pede** himself and the vote-counting mods, no one has said jack crap about my vote. My vote had nothing at all to do with any of the bickering and banter that you seem so eager to pin on me. I’m participating, speaking my mind when I have something to contribute, and I have a vote on the books. The case against amrussel is less than compelling to me, and I’ve said so. The bickering between **peeker** and **Freudian** is noisy. I’m not wasting my time or anyone else’s by wading into little spats that get us nowhere. ---
**Author:** ![MentalGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@MentalGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MentalGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/317 "2009-12-09T04:38:25Z")
I went back and did the search on amrussell’s posts so that I could see them without the commentary from the other players. After rereading those, I think I must have let other players’ comments influence me more than I realized. Reading the posts in isolation, I am not sure what I thought was extra scummy about them to begin with. I do get a sense that amrussell may just be trying to appear helpful by offering up strategy talk, but really that applies to almost anyone that offers up any type of advice or suggestion. I mentioned last night that pedescribe was pinging me for his overall play. His vote on peeker just pings me even more. I don’t really enjoy being in the position of defending peeker since he often annoys me, but I think he has been fairly clear this game and given decent advice and insight. I do think he is often more abrasive than is called for, but that is just me not particularly liking his playstyle, not an indication he is scum. I was hesitant to vote for pede, since I also suspected he was scum in the last game I played with him and helped get him lynched on Day 1. Of course, he was Town. But I really think he is mischaracterizing peekers’ actions in his vote post. peeker was warning people off of talking about things unrelated to the game, not baiting players to do so. So, since I was already suspicious of him and now I think he is deliberately trying to mischaracterize what happened [vote] vote pedescribe [/vote] Now, I do believe that peeker could be scum, but it is just that general sense that I mentioned above about amrussell. He may just be trying to look helpful. But since I think pede is scum, I doubt peeker is. ---
**Author:** ![MentalGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@MentalGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MentalGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/318 "2009-12-09T04:40:02Z")
crap, forgot I am not on giraffe boards. **Vote pedescribe** ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/319 "2009-12-09T04:44:43Z")
I’m ever so helpful…at least until Marvel Civil War starts… **Vote Count** with about 1 day, 21 hours and 15 minutes to go 12 Votes required to start Countdown. (peak vote in Parenthesis) **5 Votes** \ ***Pedescribe** (5 #318) ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies (86), Tom Scud (282), Freudian Slip (288), peekercpa (308), Mental Guy (318) **2 Votes** \*\*amrussell \*\*(2 #218) Pedescribe (208 235), Rin Twisted (218), ToeJam (272) **Freduian Slit** (2 #298) Zeriel (230), Drain Bead (298) **1 Vote** **Rin Twisted** (1 #290) storyteller0910 (290) \*\*peekercpa \*\*(1 #307) pedescribe (307) **ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies** (1 #315) Red Skeezix (315) **0 Votes** **Mahaloth** (1 #135) peekercpa (135 308) \ ***Lynch Leader** **Not Voting** : Mahaloth, Nanook, USCDiver, DiggitCamara, Ichini Sanshigo, MHaye, amrussel, GuiriEnEspaña ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/320 "2009-12-09T05:52:37Z")
> [@amrussell](#): > > To be honest, I _don’t_ see how that message could be read if one thinks I’m scum. I’m saying that: IF we kill the Roleblocker, AND the best strategy for scum is to then sacrifice another player (as suggested by **RedSkeezix** in the post I was replying to) then that will be a _good situation for town_ (hence, I’ll be happy). I really don’t see where I’m meant to be volunteering to be bussed there. But more to the point, why on earth would I be jumping up and down to offer this sacrifice in the game thread? On Day One? There is absolutely no need or motivation for scum to do this. So it looks like the accusation is that, not only am I scum, but I’m \*also \*minor scum \*and \* I am both so eager and so dumb that I can’t resist blurting out my best thoughts on scum strategy in the middle of the game thread for all to read, long before they would actually become relevant. Fair enough, I agree that I’m am going on your inexperience, as I don’t really have knowledge on how you play the game too well. But I appreciate your answer, and it has allayed my thoughts a bit. I find you still suspicious, but I don’t think that my reasoning is a good one to vote for you. However, I did find it curious that so many others quickly jumped to your defense. When I played Mafia, long ago when I was but a wee bairn (whatever those are), we used to play harder and faster and more paranoid. I have to get used to seeing others defend each other- as it totally feels… odd to me. I feel it muddies the water, and creates senses of bond, trust, and touchy-feely biases. That’s not what a person trying to sort through the chaff as it were, wants to see. But I understand your reasoning better, and thank you for pointing out the Rin Twisted reasoning as to why you posted that quote. I was quite puzzled, but now it makes sense. Unvote AmRussel I want to look at the \*\*Peeker/Pedes \*\*issue, but unfortunately I have to get back to studying for my Finals (Tomorrow and Friday). So hopefully i can find some time to give good analysis- but if not I apologize for my absence. I REALLY don’t like missing votes and such, but my schedule will be dodgy for the next week. Though I would like to Ask \*\*Freudian Slit \*\*a Question: How many games of Mafia have you played? Are you inexperienced? As your worrying about the game comments, and how you were letting it get to you… truth be told- they kinda pinged me. I don’t like feeling sympathetic towards players (see chaff and such above). So yeah- how many games HAVE you played on these boards or such- I didn’t think you were one of the newer players? Is this really one of your first games? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729.md?page=17)