# Colorless Mafia

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729>\
**Category:** The Game Room\
**Created:** [December 2, 2009, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729 "2009-12-02T18:21:59Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 22

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**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\
**Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/421 "2009-12-10T16:07:20Z")

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Fixed a detail. I love being able to edit. 😃

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**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\
**Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/422 "2009-12-10T16:10:08Z")

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> [@Tom\_Scud](#):
>
> Actually, we do know that scum know who each other are. Your homework is to go read #67 again.

Dammit. Mea culpa.

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**Author:** ![Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanook_of_the_North_Shore)\
**Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/423 "2009-12-10T17:06:34Z")

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There’s something about this whole thing that is bothering me. Clearly one of them is lying. If it’s Pede, which seems likely, I don’t like peeker’s decision to counter claim. Yeah, we likely would have lynched Town instead. It’s Day 1, lynching Town isn’t all that terrible. Yeah, it’s a mislynch, but where people scramble to place their votes would tell us quite a bit. Moot point now.

I’m not going to vote for Ped. Dudes got enough votes on him to die as it is. Instead, I’m going to vote for the next most suspicious person.

\*\* Vote Freudian \*\*

Her doubt of the claim/counter claim bugs me. The way she seems to be playing dumb about things, even though she has experience bothers me. Just a whole lot of things bother me.

Also, I feel the need to point out that if Pede flips Town, we should consider why it is that peeker counter claimed. I think protecting Freudian is a definite possibility.

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**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\
**Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/424 "2009-12-10T17:11:26Z")

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Well, I could go on and on, but the simple truth is that my vote is staying. I almost removed it when I saw pede’s claim, but I really believe peeker’s claim at this point.

Anyway, I hope we get it right, but I see positives even if ped ends up flipping town.

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**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\
**Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/425 "2009-12-10T17:18:39Z")

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> [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](#):
>
> Her doubt of the claim/counter claim bugs me. The way she seems to be playing dumb about things, even though she has experience bothers me. Just a whole lot of things bother me.
> 
> Also, I feel the need to point out that if Pede flips Town, we should consider why it is that peeker counter claimed. I think protecting Freudian is a definite possibility.

Well, I’m not the only one who doesn’t believe **pedescribe**. FTR, I do believe **peeker** because if he is lying and **pedescribe** IS the vig, then we’ll know soon enough. **Peeker** wouldn’t want to lynch **pedescribe** if he suspected **pedescribe** WAS the vig. I mean, duh.

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**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\
**Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/426 "2009-12-10T17:22:23Z")

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> [@Tom\_Scud](#):
>
> **unvote Mahaloth**  
> **vote pedescribe**
> 
> I see no reason why a scum **peeker** would make such a claim.

Neither do I.

**Unvote peekercpa**

**Vote pedescribe**

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**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\
**Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/427 "2009-12-10T17:33:20Z")

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> [@peekercpa](#):
>
> oh, and for those that accuse me of being indirect let me be very clear.
> 
> i am the vig.

GG.

I wouldn’t have done that, but okay.

> [@MHaye](#):
>
> Doing a post-lunch catchup before I head off and read some job adverts to see a claim-and-counterclaim scenario.
> 
> Clearly one of them is lying, as illustrated by the philosopher Mark Knopfler.

🙂

I, too, like quoting people and calling them philosophers.

> [@MHaye](#):
>
> But there is another possibility.
> 
> Pedescribe has, in the past, advocated Townspeople lying. He has even practiced actuive deceit (by which I mean he has, as a Town-aligned player, made false statements **knowing** that they were false and with the intention to mislead. Most recently he tried it on in Conspiracy 3; he was one particular investigative role but claimed to be another (briefly) in order to pull the wool over the eyes of a specific anti-Town faction, who had already checked him out and thus knew he was probably lying. His biggest lie was that he repeatedly claimed that there were four Masons in Evil Dead.
> 
> It’s quite possible, then, that Pede is simply a vanilla Town trying to get out of a lynch. In which case, his lie has exposed the Vig to public scrutiny.

Ah, you wound me, MHaye. I may be deceitful, but I would not do so without a plan, one that is more thought out than “save self”. There is no reason for a townsperson to lie in an open setup, pretty much NONE. Certainly not this one.

> [@Freudian\_Slit](#):
>
> I’m not a mathematician and I don’t have hard numbers. But I just know that half the time we end up lynching vanilla town in the beginning. It just seems spectacularly unlikely to me that we just so happened to pick an important town role. Not even like a role blocker–a cool, sexy killing role, like the vig! Just WAY too convenient.

I’m not fond of straight-up numbers arguments. The point of the game is that we use our information to beat the numbers. After all, you had just as much a chance to find the SK Day 1, but you found him because of your guys’es skill and my screw ups.

> [@peekercpa](#):
>
> i think he claimed this to save his butt hoping that he would get investigated and show up town. then when i, the real vig, showed up he would just call b.s. and potentially have the dick confirm that he is town. shoot, enough confusion to not only potentially get a mislynch but also unearth the detective.

No, not really. To be honest, I just wanted to mess with y’all a little bit, after I knew I was doomed. Stir the pot a little bit. I mean, there was no way for me to win when I claimed, so why not?

> [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](#):
>
> \*\* Vote Freudian \*\*
> 
> Her doubt of the claim/counter claim bugs me. The way she seems to be playing dumb about things, even though she has experience bothers me. Just a whole lot of things bother me.

I completely agree with this. You should listen to and pay attention to Nanook after I die. Also Red Skeezix. He seems to think like me, except without all the stupid mistakes.  
P.S. I really wish I could figure out how to play this game one of these days. Ciao!

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**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\
**Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/428 "2009-12-10T17:45:44Z")

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> [@pedescribe](#):
>
> GG.
> 
> …
> 
> After all, you had just as much a chance to find the SK Day 1, but you found him because of your guys’es skill and my screw ups.

I was kind of hoping for scum roleblocker (more information from the lynch that way), but an SK is pretty damn good for a day 1 lynch.

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**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\
**Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/429 "2009-12-10T17:47:14Z")

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SK? wow, that revelation pretty much negates the stones on which my arguments against freudian rest. Although Pede is not scum, I’ll take SK, since it’s part of our lynch burden.  
\*\*  
unvote Freudian Slit\*\*  
**vote Pedescribe**

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**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\
**Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/430 "2009-12-10T18:07:31Z")

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Remember, I have no dog in this fight. I’ve had my fun, too. So I know your first reaction will be to ignore this. But it would be a small foolishness to dismiss this out of hand.

1. Mahaloth–Seems to be late to everything. Probably an indication of RL stuff, of which he has a lot, taking care of a baby and all. I got nothing beyond that.
2. Nanook–I’m not suspicious of him. I usually am, though, and he’s usually town. So this could be an indication of scuminess.
3. Tom Scud–He is most definitely town.
4. Drain Bead–Kind of quiet. Pinging me a little, but not any more than average.
5. Freudian Slit–Totally suspicious.
6. pedescribe–SK
7. ToeJam–I am unsure.
8. USCDiver–Sounding slightly townish at the moment.
9. peekercpa–He’s the vigilante, almost certainly.
10. DiggitCamara–He’s been keeping it safe. Very quick to jump on bandwagons, et al.
11. storyteller–Huh, I forgot he was in this game. He’ll probably be here more once Civil War is ready and sent.
12. Ichini Sanshigo–Sadly absent.
13. Red Skeezix–Listen to him, for he is wise. Unless he’s scum, in which case figure that out right quick.
14. Zeriel–Oddly passive. He hasn’t really been involved with much of it, and when he is, he’s mostly offering tips and pointers.
15. MHaye–Very friendly. Eh…unsure, I guess.
16. amrussel–Don’t remember much about him.
17. Rin Twisted–Rather aggressive. It seems to be a town aggression, though.
18. GuiriEnEspaña–She seems much more aggressive than usual.
19. Mental Guy–Quiet, but he’s been covering all the big points this game. He may be lurking.
20. ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies–Very aggressive this game. More than usual…not really.

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**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\
**Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/431 "2009-12-10T18:23:15Z")

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Damn, I thought I was doing pretty well posting for playing 2 (soon to be 3) games simultaneously.

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**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\
**Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/432 "2009-12-10T19:45:24Z")

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**Vote Count** with about 6 hours and 15 minutes to go

(peak vote in Parentheses)

**13 Votes**  
\ ***Pedescribe** (13 #429) ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies (86 384 412), Tom Scud (282 334 393), Freudian Slit (288), peekercpa (308), Mental Guy (318 377), GuiriEnEspaña (330 385), Mahaloth (370), amrussell (394), Drain Bead (395), Mental Guy (396), USCDiver (398), Guiri (399), MHaye (400), DiggitCamara (426), Red Skeezix (429)

**2 Votes**  
**Freudian Slit** (4 #386) Zeriel (230), Drain Bead (298 395), Red Skeezix (378 429), USCDiver (386 398), Nanook of the North Shore (423)  
**Rin Twisted** (2 #358) storyteller0910 (290) ToeJam (358)

**1 Vote**  
**amrussell** (2 #218) Pedescribe (208 235), Rin Twisted (218), ToeJam (272 320)  
**peekercpa** (2 #326) pedescribe (307), DiggitCamara (326 426)

**0 Votes**  
**ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies** (1 #315) Red Skeezix (315 378)  
**Mahaloth** (1 #135) peekercpa (135 308) Tom Scud (334 393)  
**Ichini Sanshigo** (1 #384) ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies (384 412)

\ ***Lynch Leader**

**Not Voting** : Ichini Sanshigo

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**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\
**Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/433 "2009-12-10T22:23:24Z")

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> [@Red\_Skeezix](#):
>
> Thanks for the smudge.
> 
> I gave my reasons for my vote on Cookies. It may seem to you as a stretch, but to me it makes perfect sense, and seems a lot more solid that your previous insistence that pedescribe be lynched over some trivial point of strategy.
> 
> I pointed out what I saw as a glaring inconsistency in pedescribe’s post. I made the comment about Cookies, because she had made a post before that people should not take me off their scrutiny lists.
> 
> Your counter-claim reeks btw. What exactly is the point of it? If you are really the vig, why break cover for no reason? Why are you protecting Freudian? Was that so-called trap a little day 1 bussing?
> 
> For now, my vote stays where it is.

**skeez** you misinterpreted my posts.

they were in no way meant to be a smudge.

they were intended as an accusation.

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**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\
**Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/434 "2009-12-10T22:33:23Z")

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> [@Tom\_Scud](#):
>
> So okay, Ed won’t comment on **Ichini** , but I hope he’ll start looking for a sub pretty soon.

knowing my feelings on lurkers and non participants i don’t feel that this will be warranted.

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**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\
**Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/435 "2009-12-10T22:45:06Z")

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and even though i am typically averse to telling power roles how the heck to play.

doc protect my ass. you know now that i am the town vig. unless you feel that you have outed yourself and need to self protect, which i would understand. let our dick get some time looking at folks and let me get rid of **inchini**. if **ped** is what he says he is then if i am protected they have to shoot in the dark. which will be information in and of itself (up yours ped).

and for the **cookies** of the world that still doubt me just go read, fgs. i suck at false claims. get lynched every fracking time. so i can still fuck up and be me but anyone who harbors any doubt about me being the town vig needs to die immediately. or at least in the order in which the doubt is expressed. so we’ve got one bad dude down and one confirmed townie. pretty good start my friends.

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**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\
**Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/436 "2009-12-10T22:47:35Z")

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> [@peekercpa](#):
>
> **skeez** you misinterpreted my posts.
> 
> they were in no way meant to be a smudge.
> 
> they were intended as an accusation.

Either way, I’ve answered them.

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**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\
**Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/437 "2009-12-10T22:56:32Z")

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> [@Red\_Skeezix](#):
>
> Either way, I’ve answered them.

sure, but not in any way that would make me change my conlusion that you are scum.

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**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\
**Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/438 "2009-12-10T23:08:29Z")

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> [@Tom\_Scud](#):
>
> So I’m thinking, who do we have who’s gone dead silent after drawing a bit of early heat for maybe making the game seem more complicated than it is? I know he’s posted a “sorry guys I’m busy, will post later” post; but I thought **peeker** ’s initial query of **Mahaloth** was solid - the guy’s modded a couple games, he ought to know what a “colorless” roleblocker can or can’t do - and his complete silence since his reply to **peeker’s** vote worries me.
> 
> **unvote pedescribe**  
> **vote Mahaloth**

and sorry guys and gals (but not really). this is also an odd post. **ped** was picking up some traction and then all of a sudden **tom** moves his vote for something i came up with. now this may be pure metagame but in screamers i could have called fart and **tom** would have said bs that’s turd.

we were both town.

now all of a sudden i make a statement that basically gives **tom** a safe vote (townie proposed) away from what may have seemed a safe vote initially on **ped** but which is looking scarily bad for scum.

now if **ped** flips sk then discard and throw away. if he flips other then this could be another data point.

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**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\
**Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/439 "2009-12-10T23:52:38Z")

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> [@GuiriEnEspana](#):
>
> /Underlining mine for emphasis.
> 
> @ **Freudian** , while you did disappear in Day 2, you were in Screamers with **Peeker** , weren’t you? I remember you two exchanged greetings in Bulgarian.

Sorry, didn’t see this for a while. I forgot about Peeker/Screamers. I felt kind of embarrassed about, um…disappearing like that…yeah.

I didn’t know I could speak Bulgarian, though!

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**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\
**Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/440 "2009-12-10T23:59:03Z")

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uh, and just one other question for the crowd.

wtf should i do tonight.

i’d dearly love to hear some input.

i’m thinking killing a lurker, would that be the best play?

or do is shoot away based on my suspicions or in the dark?

wow, what to do?

seriously, i’d like some input.

before i just go down the 'ol peek path.

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