# Colorless Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 2, 2009, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729 "2009-12-02T18:21:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/541 "2009-12-14T13:14:18Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > i am going to open up a real weird avenue of discussion. what if we not only pick a lynch but also a nk. if i get through then the nk is whatever the nk is. if i get rb’ed we kill the nk target, lather rinse and repeat. at least that way sooner or later we might have multiple deaths in a Night. it might also speed this up a touch. because the suggested nk is going to have to do something or get killed or lynched. if the nk is scum then they have to false claim or get in the vanilla pool. i really haven’t even ran the numbers. just a thought as a way to ratchet up the discussion. Not a good idea, really at all, but especially until the Scum role-blocker has been killed. Announcing your planned Night target beforehand means the Scum get to use that information to decide whether to block you or not. If you are planning to target Scum they’ll role block you; if you’re planning to kill Town, they won’t. Of course, they might mix it up once in a while and use that to (try to) force a mislynch. Any way you slice it, though, you’d basically be handing control over what happens at Night to the Scum. Don’t take any suggestions. If you’re the Vig - and if you’re not, then the real Vig should probably have a strong cup of coffee and deal with things toMorrow Night, OK, because I for one am assuming **peek** is telling the truth - use your best judgment and if things turn out badly, they turn out badly. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/542 "2009-12-14T13:39:57Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > i am going to open up a real weird avenue of discussion. what if we not only pick a lynch but also a nk. if i get through then the nk is whatever the nk is. if i get rb’ed we kill the nk target, lather rinse and repeat. at least that way sooner or later we might have multiple deaths in a Night. it might also speed this up a touch. because the suggested nk is going to have to do something or get killed or lynched. if the nk is scum then they have to false claim or get in the vanilla pool. i really haven’t even ran the numbers. just a thought as a way to ratchet up the discussion. I don’t think this is a good idea, as it increases the risk of outing our power roles, and is susceptible to manipulation by the scum roleblocker. If the NK vote is for a townie, scum have the option of blocking it anyway. This leads to a mis-lynch the next day which gives town no information in the voting record, so the scum effectively get a free NK. > [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > I misrepresent your argument no less than you misrepresent my statement yesterDay that I didn’t necessarily trust **peeker** yet at the time that I made the post. I’m defending a statement that I made when the situation was simply > a Day One Vig vs. Vig counterclaim, which is a situation in which everyone in the Town damn sure better be looking closely at both players. You are being overly defensive here, which is pinging me somewhat. I already clarified that doubting peeker’s claim was a null tell. **@Cookies, Drain Bead, Red Skeezix** – What do you think of my idea that considering Ped as a possible SK would be a natural slip for scum to make? **@DiggitCamara** - Are you for or against the vig and town blocker targeting tonight (assuming we mis-lynch today)? **@Tom** – What are your thoughts on storyteller’s case against Rin? Is your vote purely for pressure, or do you think there is something to it? **@Story** – Could I have a link to your case against Rin please? **@Guiri** – What would you say if I offered you a 1 Day voting pact, I won’t vote for you toDay if you don’t vote for me? (I’d be grateful if the other players would hold off commenting on this until Guiri responds). ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/543 "2009-12-14T13:45:48Z")
I agree with others that deciding the Vig’s NK is a bad idea. At present - barring some bluffing or WIFOM - scum have to keep their roleblocker pinned to **Peeker** and while this effectively neutralizes both roles, it also means the other Town power roles can get on with their business. Giving their roleblocker an opt-out clause is asking for trouble! Last time I checked (early this morning), **Rin** hadn’t been active anywhere on the board since last Monday so it may be another case for **Special Ed**. On preview, @ **Alka** - I’m not sure we need to make a pact, I had no intention of voting for you. If you have a case against me, please share it and I’ll respond. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/544 "2009-12-14T13:55:40Z")
I don’t have a read on you atm Guiri, and don’t have a case to make against you. I’m interested to hear what you think of the idea of a voting pact. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/545 "2009-12-14T14:11:48Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > **@Cookies, Drain Bead, Red Skeezix** – What do you think of my idea that considering Ped as a possible SK would be a natural slip for scum to make? I answered that question directly after your post. And **Freudian** , if this weren’t an open setup game, I’d think you had a Jester-type role. Seriously, are you trying to get lynched? **peeker** comes up with an idea that is just plain awful, and has a history of not working, I show why it is a bad idea and mention that only Scum would like it, and what’s the next post? You, attempting to _defend_ it. I see no reason to move my vote from where it had been before **ped** was outed. **vote Freudian Slit** ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/546 "2009-12-14T14:21:19Z")
I raise a single eyebrow. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/547 "2009-12-14T14:23:52Z")
@ **Alka** , I may be missing some of the nuances of a vote pact but I don’t see how it helps us root out scum. If something happens later toDay which gives either of us reason to vote for the other, I think we should be both free to express our opinions through our vote. What am I missing? Even if you rated highly on my trust-o-meter, I wouldn’t see the need for a pact. Isn’t mutual trust in this game already an unspoken pact which is only broken when a played does something intentionally anti-town? ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/548 "2009-12-14T14:44:11Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > @ **Alka** , I may be missing some of the nuances of a vote pact but I don’t see how it helps us root out scum. If something happens later toDay which gives either of us reason to vote for the other, I think we should be both free to express our opinions through our vote. > > What am I missing? Even if you rated highly on my trust-o-meter, I wouldn’t see the need for a pact. Isn’t mutual trust in this game already an unspoken pact which is only broken when a played does something intentionally anti-town? actually i think the default is mutual distrust. why would you trust anyone by default? or did you just post this backwards? ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/549 "2009-12-14T14:57:00Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > actually i think the default is mutual distrust. > > why would you trust anyone by default? > > or did you just post this backwards? I didn’t post backwards and I didn’t mention anything about default trust. Game mechanics can lead two or more players to trust each other mutually through self-confirming roles, investigation results, etc. but even then each player’s alignment is not 100% certain until end game or flips. In this case, players will avoid voting for each other unless one of them does something seriously anti-town - and so I don’t understand what good a vote pact would do in the hunt for scum. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/550 "2009-12-14T15:04:05Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > **@Cookies, Drain Bead, Red Skeezix** – What do you think of my idea that considering Ped as a possible SK would be a natural slip for scum to make? It seems like one of those things that could be a scum slip and I think that I see the logic behind it. But it seems like one of those things that can contribute to a case against someone but alone isn’t particularly telling. To be more plain: I don’t have a strong opinion on it either way. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/551 "2009-12-14T15:21:02Z")
I think your proposed slip is a null tell so early in the game, when it is common for players to run each player, and especially players who are getting some heat, through a long list of hypothetical scenarios involving their potential alignments. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/552 "2009-12-14T15:33:34Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > **@Guiri** – What would you say if I offered you a 1 Day voting pact, I won’t vote for you toDay if you don’t vote for me? (I’d be grateful if the other players would hold off commenting on this until Guiri responds). Now that **Guiri** has responded, would you mind explaining what the hell you’re on about here, **Alka**? I just reread **Guiri’s** posts and didn’t see a thing to indicate that he thought a voting pact (or anything like a voting pact) was a good idea. I realize that you’re couching it as a hypothetical, but I’d find anyone who actually offered such a voting pact to be extremely suspect, particularly if they had much experience at all. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/553 "2009-12-14T15:45:04Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > **@Tom** – What are your thoughts on storyteller’s case against Rin? Is your vote purely for pressure, or do you think there is something to it? Primarily a pressure vote; I also thought her Day 1 case on amrussell was a stretch, though not an outrageous one for early Day 1; and I’m not sure why she went out of her way to defend Mahaloth. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/554 "2009-12-14T15:50:59Z")
I asked the question of Guiri to help to help me get a read on him. > [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > @ **Alka** , I may be missing some of the nuances of a vote pact but I don’t see how it helps us root out scum. If something happens later toDay which gives either of us reason to vote for the other, I think we should be both free to express our opinions through our vote. That would be my response, I wouldn’t be prepared to compromise my vote. **@Tom** - What would the scum motive be for offering a voting pact? ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/555 "2009-12-14T15:55:07Z")
I don’t know about offering one, but taking advantage of and/or manipulating one would potentially give the scum lots of motivation. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/556 "2009-12-14T15:56:15Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > I asked the question of Guiri to help to help me get a read on him. > > That would be my response, I wouldn’t be prepared to compromise my vote. > > **@Tom** - What would the scum motive be for offering a voting pact? Anything that compromises independent voting is good for scum (I guess unless there’s a fully-confirmed Town and it’s close to end game). The only reason a scum wouldn’t offer a voting pact is because it’s so flagrantly obvious that it would draw all kinds of suspicion. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/557 "2009-12-14T17:18:48Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > **@Story** – Could I have a link to your case against Rin please? Never mind, I’ve found this now. [Case](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11864413#post11864413). [Vote](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11864484#post11864484). ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/558 "2009-12-14T17:21:13Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > (snip) > > **@DiggitCamara** - Are you for or against the vig and town blocker targeting tonight (assuming we mis-lynch today)? > > (snip) In general I have only seen bad results for a Vig’s Night actions; they usually end up killing townfolk. Nevertheless, I think it’s best to give the Vig a free hand in his role. If we follow through with his “Night Lynch” idea, the possible results would be: 1. We ask him to NL town. Scum let him kill freely. They can use their roleblocker against someone else. 2. We ask him to NL scum. Scum role-block him. Much discussion during the next Day ensues (Scum probably would claim to be the Doctor or the town Roleblocker), and in the end Scum gets lynched (and the Doctor and/or Roleblocker probably out themselves to get Scum lynched) If we let him act freely, the Scum roleblocker might be used to block him, rendering him/her pretty much useless and we don’t further Scum’s control of the Daytime discussions. The Town Roleblocker probably should refrain from using his/her power at Night as much as possible, since it’s an even chance that (s)he will block a Town power role. This, of course, should be at his/her discretion. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/559 "2009-12-14T18:03:44Z")
**Vote Count** with about 3 days, 7 hours, and 56 minutes (peak vote in parentheses) **3 Votes** \ ***Freudian Slit** (3 #545) Zeriel (512), Red Skeezix (536), Drain Bead (545) **2 Votes** **Rin Twisted** (2 #540) Tom Scud (534), storyteller0910 (540) **1 Vote** **Mental Guy** (1 #522) Alka Seltzer (522) **Red Skeezix** (1 #526) peekercpa (526) **0 Votes** **Zeriel** **Drain Bead** **Tom Scud** **Alka Seltzer** **peekercpa** **Mahaloth** **Nanook of the North Shore** **ToeJam** **USCDiver** **DiggitCamara** **MHaye** **GuiriEnEspaña** **Mental Guy** **ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies** _Lynch Leader \*\* Not voting:_\* Mahaloth, Nanook of the North Shore, Freudian Slit, ToeJam, USCDiver, DiggitCamara, MHaye, Rin Twisted, GuiriEnEspaña, Mental Guy, ---
**Author:** ![Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanook_of_the_North_Shore)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/560 "2009-12-14T18:12:29Z")
Alka, while the ask other people questions technique can be useful, only doing that and providing not much else is kinda bugging me. Especially in this case since your questions seem kind of random. Why would you ask Guiri about a vote pact? I didn’t see any vote pact type discussions during this game. Peeker, you do what you feel is best. A secondary vote is a terrible idea, for all the reasons laid out prior. With you making the decision, we know that your motives are pure. That isn’t to say you can’t be wrong, because you could, but at least your end goal is right. I’m a bit concerned about the disappearance of Rin as well. On multiple occasions in the past I’ve seen scum drop off the radar after picking up heat early and then never be suspected again. It’s not an unusual tactic for them to use. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729.md?page=29)