# Colorless Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 2, 2009, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729 "2009-12-02T18:21:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/721 "2009-12-20T17:49:42Z")
Ah, indeed, it appears Nanook did not vote. Neither did Toejam. Hmmm. **Vote Nanook** For not voting, which is anti-town. Toejam, I believe, told us he would be off. I don’t recall Nanook saying as much. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/722 "2009-12-20T17:51:58Z")
Option 1. Day ending on 23rd. Sounds fine. Though I’m quite open to whatever–not going away for Xmas or anything so for me, no matter what, the game is on! ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/723 "2009-12-20T18:13:42Z")
> [@ToeJam](#): > > Also- next week for me is my week of finals. So I pretty much will not be checking in on this thread from Sunday to Friday. I’m basically going to have to eat it in terms of posting/voting/anything. Ah. Missed that. **unvote ToeJam**. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/724 "2009-12-20T21:20:03Z")
**Option 1: Day will end on Wednesday, December 23rd at 8PM CST** A couple of things pending from yesterDay. @ **Alka** , I’m not sure why you think I’m assuming you are town. If you are scum, you know perfectly well that I am Town and have no need for a read on me - therefore your ploy was simply a distraction and you could easily interpret any response from me to suit you agenda. If, however, you are Town, your questioning served to help you get a better read on me and that can be useful to you, me and the rest of Town. Your first comment to **Tom** was: > [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > That would be my response, I wouldn’t be prepared to compromise my vote. But then, shortly afterwards, you told **Mental Guy** : > [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > I don’t think I learned much from Guiri’s response really, but he did take a reasonable position. So, it seems that I answered the same way you would and took a reasonable position but this doesn’t actually help you get a better read on me. I don’t know what you were looking for and so my comment. @ **Mahaloth** , out of curiousity I’ll ask again, aside from this reason for your vote on **Rin Twisted** : > [@Mahaloth](#): > > However, I do think rin has done very little other than stir the pot and back off to watch. This is scummy. Did you have any other reason for keeping your vote on **Meeko** after he subbed in other than the previous player had appeared to be lurking on purpose? You mentioned that you weren’t feeling the case against **Freudian** , did you also disagree with the case against **Diggit** which had started to gain momentum? I’d ask **Story** the same question but as he hasn’t posted in the game for almost a week, I guess he’s unaware of the substition… ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/725 "2009-12-20T23:38:00Z")
I’m here now, Tom Scud, and I’m slowly reading through the week. I’ll be playing along now though, thanks for pardoning my absence. Anyways, I\*\* vote for Option 2\*\* right now. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/726 "2009-12-21T00:33:06Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Sounds fine. Though I’m quite open to whatever–not going away for Xmas or anything so for me, no matter what, the game is on! Actually, I’m good either way as well. I have some vacation time at Xmas, so I can actually participate a bit more than I have. Not as much as in othe rgame > [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > @ **Mahaloth** , out of curiousity I’ll ask again, aside from this reason for your vote on **Rin Twisted** : Did you have any other reason for keeping your vote on **Meeko** after he subbed in other than the previous player had appeared to be lurking on purpose? You mentioned that you weren’t feeling the case against **Freudian** , did you also disagree with the case against **Diggit** which had started to gain momentum? I’d ask **Story** the same question but as he hasn’t posted in the game for almost a week, I guess he’s unaware of the substition… 1. I did not believe Diggit to be scum, so I did not feel like just jumping on some bandwagon. I don’t mind voting for someone who has votes if I am feeling or seeing the case, but I didn’t with Diggit(or Freudian like you said). 2. I thought Rin could have very well stirred things up and back of intentionally. Just because Meeko took over the role and participated more actively, it doesn’t mean that I wasn’t right about Rin. At this point, though, I think Nanook is being more anti-town by not voting than Rin was being. Not voting is ridiculous. Having said that, I still think Meeko very well might have inherited a Scum role. I guess I’m torn. I think Meeko is #2 on my suspect list right now, so I’m going with my #1. By the way, has anyone heard from storyteller? ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/727 "2009-12-21T00:47:53Z")
**Mahaloth** , just so you know, **Nanook** is MIA from story’s game on Idle’s board too. That having been said, what’s up with all the lynch-the-lurker? There seem to be several cases you could be making, but your last two votes, IIRC, were essentially LtL. One person was subbed out, and one probably could be were it not for the fact that this game is now closed to subs. Lurking can be scummy, but pure absence knows no allegiance. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/728 "2009-12-21T15:15:04Z")
Looking at Mahaloth: 114, 119, 153, 154: Queries if roleblocker can stop kills, if any role is unblockable; explains that this is because the Alpha in the Wild West game (which he modded) was unblockable 159: fluff 203: “I think since we have more than 16 players, he included one.” (serial killer) 284: Busy, will post later 370: Still busy. Votes pedescribe for trying to back away from earlier statements. 424: Believes peeker’s counterclaim; vote stays on pede 470, 471, 488, 506: fluff 571: Again apologizes for low posting, thinks peeker should kill whoever, votes Rin Twisted for being aggressive then lurking. 612: Welcomes meeko, keeps vote 620: Meeko, please read rules 4 overnight fluff posts 713: end day on Wednesday 721: votes Nanook for not voting. Notes ToeJam had warned of absence in advance. 726: Thinks Rin stirred things then backed off on purpose (or might have); thinks Nanook’s non-vote was more anti-Town. So, not counting fluff, we have 5 rules clarifications, one bandwagon vote, and one bandwagon reaffirmation on Day 1; 1 sort of Lynch the Lurker plus two basically administrative posts on Day 2; and another administrative post and a Lynch the Lurker on Day 3. So, right, Maha, I’m not suspicious of you solely because of the low participation - a new baby is a pretty damn good OOG excuse. I’m suspicious because all of your votes aside from the late-bandwagon vote on pedescribe (#6, I believe) have been of the Lynch the Lurker variety, and basically all of your other posts have been rules questions and administrative stuff. I have no problem with players getting into rules questions and so forth, but when that’s their only contribution, it looks like someone trying to get credit for participating without getting anyone pissed off or risking coming up with a questionable reason for voting. **vote Mahaloth** ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/729 "2009-12-21T15:24:19Z")
Switch my vote to Option 2 I don’t have a strong preference, and with 4 people asking for the extra time, I think we’re better off chilling out for a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/730 "2009-12-21T15:59:18Z")
Hey, I get it, Tom. I’m having a very hard time getting a solid read on anyone. I’m trying to look for anti-town/pro-scum activity(same thing I guess) and place my vote there. I mean, if I could find a huge scum slip or something, I’d vote that person immediately. However, I have not seen anything obviously pro-scum. Apparently, neither has anyone else, as we’ve lynched town. Ped? Yeah, it was kind of bandwagony, but it was pretty clear that he was the SK once peeker claimed. I mean, that was a huge success on Day One. Aside from fabricating a loose case based on huge speculation, which I think people frequently do, the only thing I can come up with is to vote for those who have stirred up issues and then sat back to watch things fly. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/731 "2009-12-21T17:00:42Z")
**Vote Count** with either about 2 days, 9 hours, and 0 minutes to go or 8 days 9 hours and 0 minutes to go. With 16 players, it takes 10 players voting for one person to start a countdown. The vote for when to end Day will close 24 hours from now, at 11 AM CST. Unless Option 1 gains more of a consensus, I will choose Option 2 to provide time for input from all the players. (peak vote in parentheses) **1 Vote** \ ***Freudian Slit** (1 #707) Drain Bead (707) **Meeko** (1 #708) Red Skeezix (708) **Nanook of the North Shore** (1 #721) Mahaloth (721) **Mahaloth** (1 #728) Tom Scud **0 Votes** **ToeJam** (1 #716) Tom Scud (716 723) **Tom Scud** **Drain Bead** **USCDiver** **peekercpa** **storyteller0910** **Alka Seltzer** **Red Skeezix** **MHaye** **GuiriEnEspaña** **Mental Guy** **ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies** _Lynch Leader \*\* Not voting:_\* Nanook of the North Shore, Freudian Slit, ToeJam, USCDiver, peekercpa, storyteller0910, Alka Seltzer, MHaye, Meeko, GuiriEnEspaña, Mental Guy, ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies End of Day votes: **7 Votes** \*\*Option 1: Day will end on Wednesday, December 23rd at 8PM CST \*\* Drain Bead USCDiver Meeko Mahaloth peekercpa Freudian Slit GuiriEnEspaña **5 Votes** **Option 2: Day will end on Tuesday, December 29th at 8PM CST** Red Skeezix MHaye Alka Seltzer ToeJam Tom Scud ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/732 "2009-12-21T17:44:02Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Hey, I get it, Tom. I’m having a very hard time getting a solid read on anyone. I’m trying to look for anti-town/pro-scum activity(same thing I guess) and place my vote there. I mean, if I could find a huge scum slip or something, I’d vote that person immediately. However, I have not seen anything obviously pro-scum. Apparently, neither has anyone else, as we’ve lynched town. > > Ped? Yeah, it was kind of bandwagony, but it was pretty clear that he was the SK once peeker claimed. I mean, that was a huge success on Day One. > > Aside from fabricating a loose case based on huge speculation, which I think people frequently do, the only thing I can come up with is to vote for those who have stirred up issues and then sat back to watch things fly. 1. If town sat around and waited for scum to slip up, without throwing around “loose cases based on huge speculation” then town would never win. 2. I don’t see how it was clear that ped was the SK when peeker counterclaimed. He could have been scum. It wasn’t clear that ped was the SK until ped said “Hey guys, I’m the SK”. 3.You are not voting for someone who has stirred up issues and then watched things fly, you are voting for someone who is absent. The whole exchange between **Tom Scud** and **Mahaloth** smells fishy. First today they are both voting for lurkers. Now **Tom Scud** is voting for **Mahaloth** for voting lurker. What’s the deal **Tom Scud**? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/733 "2009-12-21T17:44:09Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > **Vote Diggit** > > Let’s hear a claim already. Why were you assuming he’d claim? I can’t tell if this is sarcasm or not…but it just seems like the wrong attitude to take. Encouraging people to claim just because. And it seems like a bandwagon vote. Like you’re just trying to jump on and go undetected. Granted, it’s not a lot to go on but it’s a very quiet game. **Vote ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies** I still think your username rocks. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/734 "2009-12-21T18:03:22Z")
> [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > The whole exchange between **Tom Scud** and **Mahaloth** smells fishy. First today they are both voting for lurkers. Now **Tom Scud** is voting for **Mahaloth** for voting lurker. What’s the deal **Tom Scud**? I voted **Mahaloth** not for voting lurker, but for having voted nothing but lurker, aside from a pedescribe bandwagon vote, and for generally playing passively. The **ToeJam** vote was based on someone earlier noting that he’d not voted the previous day (while posting elsewhere on the board), and my not remembering that he’d made an excuse in advance. I had every intention of shifting my vote later in the day once I’d had a chance to think over my suspicions. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/735 "2009-12-21T18:05:50Z")
I’m disappointed, no one seems to enjoy doing vote count analysis anymore? ```auto Day One **13 Votes** ***Pedescribe** (13 #429) ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies (86 384), Tom Scud (282 334), Freudian Slit (288), peekercpa (308), Mental Guy (318 377), GuiriEnEspaña (330 385), Mahaloth (370), Tom Scud (393)amrussell (394), Drain Bead (395), Mental Guy (396), USCDiver (398), Guiri (399), MHaye (400), ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies (412)DiggitCamara (426), Red Skeezix (429) **2 Votes** **Freudian Slit** (4 #386) Zeriel (230), Drain Bead (298 395), Red Skeezix (378 429), USCDiver (386 398), Nanook of the North Shore (423) **Rin Twisted** (2 #358) storyteller0910 (290) ToeJam (358) **1 Vote** **amrussell** (2 #218) Pedescribe (208 235), Rin Twisted (218), ToeJam (272 320) **peekercpa** (2 #326) pedescribe (307), DiggitCamara (326 426) **0 Votes** **ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies** (1 #315) Red Skeezix (315 378) **Mahaloth** (1 #135) peekercpa (135 308) Tom Scud (334 393) **Ichini Sanshigo** (1 #384) ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies (384 412) ** 0 Votes** MentalGuy (1 #522) Alka Seltzer (522 590) ***Lynch Leader** **Not Voting** : Ichini Sanshigo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Day 2: special ed's VC on Post 666 **Vote Count** with about 2 hours, and 24 minutes (peak vote in parentheses) **7 Votes** ***DiggitCamara** (6 #642) Red Skeezix (593), peekercpa (603), MHaye (606), Tom Scud (633), Freudian Slit (640), ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies (642), MentalGuy (653) **5 Votes** **Freudian Slit** (7 #584) Zeriel (512), Red Skeezix (536 593), Drain Bead (545), Tom Scud (561 633), GuiriEnEspaña (568), USCDiver (582), MentalGuy (584 653), ALka Seltzer (665) **2 Votes** **Meeko** (2 #540) Tom Scud (534 561), storyteller0910 (540). Mahaloth (571) **1 Vote** **Red Skeezix** (2 #590)) peekercpa (526 603), Alka Seltzer (590 665), Meeko (627) -- *Lynch Leader ** Not voting:** Nanook of the North Shore, ToeJam, DiggitCamara ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ` Most of it's C/Ped with a lot of editing to put in the colors and such, but still I find these things quite useful. Let me know if I've made any errors, and I'll try to fix 'em. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/736 "2009-12-21T18:06:49Z")
> [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > 1. If town sat around and waited for scum to slip up, without throwing around “loose cases based on huge speculation” then town would never win. > 2. I don’t see how it was clear that ped was the SK when peeker counterclaimed. He could have been scum. It wasn’t clear that ped was the SK until ped said “Hey guys, I’m the SK”. > 3.You are not voting for someone who has stirred up issues and then watched things fly, you are voting for someone who is absent. > > The whole exchange between **Tom Scud** and **Mahaloth** smells fishy. First today they are both voting for lurkers. Now **Tom Scud** is voting for **Mahaloth** for voting lurker. What’s the deal **Tom Scud**? On Point 1: This is actually a good point Skeezix. In Principle. Town needs to be Proactive, and not reactive. The flip side of this though, is that you get a lot of cross-fire between town. I would guess you subscribe to Vote fast, Vote often? On Point 2: I believe that Pede figured he could in effect **quasi-claim** Vig. He probably figured he could claim Vig, and go about his SK business and offer his dead as “proof” to his claim. Given his role, and given the town roles to claim, I can’t say that I blame him, on paper it seems to have been the best move for him, **after** cornering himself into a claim. I can’t really speak to point 3. Do you mind elaborating to your “The whole exchange between” paragraph? I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but I equate “fishy” with “anti-town”. Am I on the right track here? ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/737 "2009-12-21T18:40:16Z")
So now, where’s some analysis to go along with that pretty chart up there? Here’s my thoughts, i was curious to look at the Votes between FS and DC. We have a case here of a person with 7 votes and a person with 0 votes and then within the span of a 100 posts we have the 0 voter become the lynch leader and being strung up. That’s quite spectacular. And hella odd. How’d it go down? **7 Votes** \ ***DiggitCamara** (7 #642) Red Skeezix (593), peekercpa (603), MHaye (606), Tom Scud (633), Freudian Slit (640), ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies (642), MentalGuy (653) **5 Votes** **Freudian Slit** (5 #584) Zeriel (512), Red Skeezix (536 593), Drain Bead (545), Tom Scud (561 633), GuiriEnEspaña (568), USCDiver (582), MentalGuy (584 653) Alka Selzter (665) Vote Count @ Post 592: Diggit: 0 F Slit (7): Zeriel, Red Skeezix, Drain Bead, Tom Scud, GEE, USC, MentalGuy Vote Count @ Post 610: Diggit 3: Red Skeezix, Peeks, mhaye F Slit 6: Zeriel, Drain Bead, Tom Scud, GEE, USC, MentalGuy Vote Count @ 655 DiggitCamara (7) Red Skeezix, peekercpa, MHaye, Tom Scud, Freudian Slit\*, ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies (642), MentalGuy (653) F Slit 4- Zeriel, Drain Bead, GEE, USC Finally @ 666 (Ed’s final VC): DiggitCamara (7) Red Skeezix, peekercpa, MHaye, Tom Scud, Freudian Slit\*, ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies (642), MentalGuy (653) F Slit 5- Zeriel, Drain Bead, GEE, USCDiver, ALka Seltzer (665) \*FS’s vote makes the vote count tied at 4-4 with her vote being the hammering vote to make it 5-4 in favor of DC over FS. I want to say its suspicious- but it’s a null tell, because a self-preservation vote goes to anyone- a townie or a scum in that situation would try to save themselves. So yeah. Damn. Null Tell for me in that spot. Here’s what I dislike three people switched their votes from FS to DC: \*\*Red Skz \*\*(@ 0-7-\>1-6)- The initial one off vote \*\*Tom Scud \*\*(@3-5 -\> 4-4)- this one strikes me as a heavy issued vote, as it creates the tying situation, and pretty much sets up a FS switching situation. \*\*Mental Guy \*\*(@ 6-5 to 7-4)- This one is a late switch, and though it doesn’t change the outcome much, it certainly does it push it away from an FC lynch and more into the DC camp. So I have to ask: what’s the motivation for the switches? I would love to hear from each of the three further on each of their votes. But here’s the thing. Why was there such a huge shift in votes from FC to DC? Where’s the motivation in that- as saving a scum player with such a huge movement is BOUND to be noticed. So to simply say that FC is scum and that there were other scum members involved in trying to prevent her lynch? That’s a VERY simplified answer, and I’m bound to believe it the least, but Occam’s Razor would tend to make me keep that in mind. So now, if FS and DC were both Townies- why the switch in voting patterns? I tend to believe that scum play a layered approach to the game. That they want to spread out their votes- so the idea that scum are ALL on a single person is a highly dubious notion to myself. But if you were to ask me “are there scum in the DC Mislynch?” I would say indubitably. The matter of figuring out is WHO. Who’s actions had the scummiest motivations and who stands the most to gain from each of the actions? I’m right now quite suspicious of quite a few people right now, even though I know hindsight’s 20-20 and all, it’s still quite crazy to see the vote shift go from 0-7 to to 7-4/7-5 so drastically… For completeness’s sake I’ve involved the Voting Posts by each of the Diggit Voters: > [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > Hmm, DiggitCamara… > > Ok, vig might hit town first night, but don’t use power for a couple of nights, I disagree, but I suppose it’s defendable. > > Unfortunately you are not pushing any of the reasons, you are saying that the risk of hitting town is too great so the vig should wait for a cop claim and investigation reveal. I don’t like this. > > A peeker smudge, and accusations of peeker being incomprehensible. Well sometimes he seems so, but in this game he’s been clear as a bell to me. > > Votes because peeker is suspicious, but doesn’t mention why he is suspicions. Because he is incomprensible. This reads like a style vote, and a weak one at that. > > The role blocker should refrain from action at night, since it’s even chance of blocking town. Yeah it’s possible but that’s not enough reason to refrain I think. > > Your previous post is a strategy analysis? So it’s okay for YOU to analyze strategy during the day, but everyone should keep mum, lest we give scum ideas. Idle once called me on making a comment like this when I was scum, and he was dead right. And the only thing that town not talking strategy accomplishes is town not having a strategy. > > I hadn’t really been looking at you closely, you seemed to be under my radar. But this last post is scummy as hell. > > **unvote Freudian** (Although I still heavily suspect her) > **vote DiggitCamara** > [@peekercpa](#): > > \ > > ok, this post confuses the ever living fuck out of me. i was really beginning to think without a doubt that **skeez** was scum. he’s got a safe vote on a majority candidate and then moves it to a freaking one off vote. what’s the gd point? > > seriously, if he is scum a **freud** bus makes sense. i mean it looks like she will swing and the vote is already down. so why move and one off which he should know that is going to catch a ration of shit from at least me. because **dc** was going to be my second choice for today behind **skeezy**. pretty much for the reasons he stated but primarily for the chickenshit Day one vote on me. and i’ve played with **dc** before so he should know as well or better than the rest of you folks that i am can be a heck of lot more obtuse than i have in this game. > > this certainly does not exonerate **skeez** or **freud** but sure makes this an easy choice > > **unvote skeez** > > **vote digit** > [@MHaye](#): > > DiggitCamara > > In post [post=11890538]592[/post], Diggit asks us to stop analysing the situation, so we don’t help Scum out. > > It’s a good maxim in these games that the Scum, collectively, have a better idea of the game status than the Townies, individually. The primary reason for this is that a Townie’s developing ideas can’t be bounced off someone else for quality checking, whereas the Scum can do just that. So stifling discussion of strategy helps the Scum more than it helps the Town. > > Then in post [post=11891463]595[/post], we have this.(Bolding mine) > > Our strength may be in numbers, but our _ **need** _ is information. We have a significant oversupply of numbers, and a massive information deficit. So why not trade what we have a surplus of for what we have a shortage of? In the early game, an extra death or two will not cause us to lose. In the late game, it might. If, for example, we go into a Night with 10 players remaining, and have not reduced the Scum numbers at all, we risk losing if the Vig kills the wrong person (a 55½% chance, approximately). > > That’s two pointers, very close together. I may not be in the clearest state of mind, but still, that’s enough. > > **Vote DiggitCamara**. > [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > I’ve been a bit uncomfortable with my **Freudian** vote, and various people have put my discomfort into words lately: she seems to be skimming and acting defensive, but still seems more to me like a Townie playing a poor game than a Scum. > > For which reason, I’m going to shift my vote (following my earlier “pings”): > > **unvote Freudian** > **vote Diggit** > [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Based on this (the whole no information thing), and the Vig shouldn’t do anything strategy…it’s sounding like **DC** is scum who’s afraid of getting targeted by Vig and who’s afraid of us coming up with strategy. > > For that reason, and the reason that I really really don’t want to die, > \*\* > Vote Diggit\*\* > [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > **Vote Diggit** > > Let’s hear a claim already. > [@MentalGuy](#): > > Looking back on Freudian’s play, I still think she looks scummy. I have seen similar play, though, from frustrated town players. I can’t really say the same thing about Diggit and since his play seems to have more scum motivation behind it, I will > \*\* > Unvote Freudian Slit\*\* > **Vote DiggitCamara** \ ***Cookies**. I know you explained earlier why you voted the way you did in a previous post. So I’ll include them here as well: > [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > [quoting mental guy here] > I’m just not going to apologize for getting lucky with **pede**. Luck can certainly be a variable in this game, but his post about **Tom** ping’d me and I went with my hunch. Your choice of paraphrasing evidence of my allegedly scummy lack of substantive participation is also questionable. The post you are trying to remember was quite early (post #192 to be specific) and shortly after my initial vote for **pede**. Between there and the Dusk post (#454) I do have substantive posts, and I even explain why I’m choosing not to participate in some of the discussions that I felt were a waste of time and full of more snark than substance. Also, I think if you look at some other players you will find that, low and behold, your subjective opinion of their participation level and substance will also vary from Day to Day as much as mine apparently has. > > At least we are in relative agreement on **Diggit**. I’m willing to let his Day 1 stuff with respect to **peeker** slide as just being wrong on Day 1. But the comment about not giving scum any ideas strikes me as the sort of thing that a Townie might think probably decide not say, and that a scum player might say without thinking. > [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > NETA: :smack: I mean “But the comment about not giving scum any ideas strikes me as the sort of thing that a Townie might think but probably decide not to say, and that a scum player might say without thinking.” And that will finally lead us to this gem: > [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > **Vote Diggit** > > Let’s hear a claim already. Currently for the record, of those votes above. Most of them provide an explanation of some sorts. Even if they are simple as “I don’t want to die” or “I feel that X is playing scummier than Y” However, one of those votes up there does not really do that at all. Instead, it feel like a “Me too” vote more than the others. That combined with the previous actions of having the said player being a crucial lynch pin vote in changing the tides from FS to DC is my reasoning for voting. **Vote Tom Scud** 1. I dislike the Me too vote 2. I am not a fan of the vote changing, and would like to hear more- could you perhaps points to your evidence of “pinging” showing that you had better musings for changing your vote? 3. Hi Opal! ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/738 "2009-12-21T18:44:49Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > On Point 1: This is actually a good point Skeezix. In Principle. Town needs to be Proactive, and not reactive. The flip side of this though, is that you get a lot of cross-fire between town. I would guess you subscribe to Vote fast, Vote often? > > On Point 2: I believe that Pede figured he could in effect **quasi-claim** Vig. He probably figured he could claim Vig, and go about his SK business and offer his dead as “proof” to his claim. Given his role, and given the town roles to claim, I can’t say that I blame him, on paper it seems to have been the best move for him, **after** cornering himself into a claim. > > I can’t really speak to point 3. > > Do you mind elaborating to your “The whole exchange between” paragraph? I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but I equate “fishy” with “anti-town”. Am I on the right track here? Generally yes, in games where unvoting is allowed, if I have a suspicion that outweighs my other suspicions I’ll generally shoot from the hip, and take the flak that comes from it. As far as fishy goes, it means something seems off. It doesn’t fit nicely in my mind with how I currently perceive the game. Sometimes it’s anti-town, and other times it’s pro-scum and still other times its a lapse in my judgment. With regards to **Tom Scud** ’s vote & **Mahaloth** ’s response: It has a very bussy “feel” too it. I know it’s not strong, and it could be a misread, but that’s why I’m asking questions. And to be quite honest, if at this junction scum wants to bus for town credit I’m okay with that. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/739 "2009-12-21T18:45:46Z")
Okay, maybe I was wrong to see **Cookies** as too me too-y. Wow, it feels really odd to be trying to vote for people for changing from me to DC because this whole argument is predicated on me being scum. I do agree that Tom Scud voting with Maha and then voting against him seems weird. Like, is he trying to make up for allying too heavily with him by bussing him? I’m not changing my vote JUST yet, but I’m thinking about it. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/740 "2009-12-21T18:49:24Z")
Also, at this point, I think the lurking voting while useful is kinda silly, because you’ve got REAL data out there to analyze as well. Sure we should have some people prodding the lurkers, but also, we’ve got two days now worth of information and kills up on the board, we’ve got knowledge of townies, and we can start scouring posts to see who’s voting for what reasons and why they’re doing so. :Shrug: So it’s a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation with them I suppose- can you effectively convince an active lurker to gain enough heat but can you do so without sacrificing the time to actually go back an look at what’s been provided to us for information. Right now, i’m kinda worried for us. The scum role blocker is a very powerful role and is a role that can fuck up the town if one of our power roles is forced to claim (not counting you **peeks** ). The fact that the Non RB scum can easily claim Doc/Cop and render the real one useless is a worrisome thought to me, and I do not wish to see a 1:1 trade in that regard if at all possible. Because I feel like that’s what’s going to happen should we catch scum in a lynching situation and they’re forced to “claim”. :Shrug: Just my thoughts that didn’t get to be shared on Day 2 I suppose. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729.md?page=36) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729.md?page=38)