# Colorless Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 2, 2009, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729 "2009-12-02T18:21:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 46
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/901 "2009-12-29T21:34:00Z")
Well _that’s_ an interesting twist. Firstly, apologies for quietness; I’ve been concentrating on other games the last day or so. Unlike ToeJam, I have no objection to a hidden Doc protecting an exposed Town power role. It is not (and should not be) automatic for the Doc to protect themselves once a power role is outed and forced to claim. Playing by rote will almost always result in the Scum getting the upper hand. I can also see FS’s claimed strategy. Scum will very seldom kill someone they think they might have a chance of getting lynched, not without a strong indication that the player has a get-out-of-jail free card. I’ve actually found myself in a similar situation; as a backup investigator, I was quite happy to attract two or three votes in a Day. It wasn’t until Day 8 that I was force to claim, by which time I had a significant collection of investigations, only one of which turned out to be wrong. I suppose I should claim, just so you know what you’re lynching. I am… Vanilla Town. Well, that’ll get no-one off my neck. Serious Business will follow after I’ve reread the last couple of pages and digested. Back in a couple of hours. ---
**Author:** ![MentalGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@MentalGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MentalGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/902 "2009-12-29T22:04:27Z")
Like several of you, I am torn about what to do here. I find it hard to believe that as Town doc, she was playing this way on purpose. I seriously doubt her claim. Yet, I don’t want to lynch what might be one of our few power roles. I will \*\*Unvote Freudian Slit \*\* for now. I was not as sold on anyone else’s case, but Mahaloth had become the most suspicious to me, both for some of the reasons outlined by Tom Scud and his (in my opinion) weak reason for voting for MHaye. I will **vote Mahaloth** ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/903 "2009-12-29T22:48:28Z")
very interesting. while i will freely admit bringing up the mafiate comment i also caveated it with a hypothetical? so the real quick jumps are looking kind of fishy. \*\*maha]/b] and **meeko**. \*\*maha/b] because of the Day 1 ridiculous questions about an rb’s power. **meeko** because he says i am full of hot air and then latches on. both seem manufactured to move to a “safer” target. also, the whole what the heck does our doc do. shit, its wifom either way. i would recommend that if our real doc is not **freud** that they come forward. then we lynch **freud** and we put the wifom in the scums lap. it also gives our dick another day making the scum worry about how to play the vig doc rb kill thingie. and my case against **mhaye** is founded much more on metagame stuff than the whole mafiate comment. as well, as any disagreements on strategy. matter of fact the folks that kind of align with my strategy and opinions make me real nervous. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/904 "2009-12-29T23:43:59Z")
Right, I’m off to bed. Sorry I won’t be around to see a counter-claim, **MHaye** ’s “serious business” or a vote from **Mhaye** , **Nanook** or **Cookies**. I’m not convinced of the case against **MHaye**. I can’t bring myself to revote **FS** yet. I think the case against **Tom** is almost non-existent. So, of the candidates (and to avoid placing another singleton vote): **Vote Mahaloth** For the reasons mentioned previously - but mainly his voting record: for keeping a “lurker” vote on the subbed-in **Meeko** and the jump on **MHaye** ’s bandwagon. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/905 "2009-12-30T00:23:56Z")
preponderance. fuck it. **unvote** **vote mahadada** i thought he was scum on Day one and recent participation makes me more convinced. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/906 "2009-12-30T00:29:13Z")
and we are going to run out of time here pretty quick. if you are a town rb and target my ass i hope you get fleas. shit, let me do my job. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/907 "2009-12-30T00:32:58Z")
An examination of the developing bandwagon against me. We start with [post=11922510]814[/post]. I state that killing the SK early hampers Scum. This comment was based on my experience in a game where the Deadites suffered two losses out of six by the dawn of Day 2, and were further crippled by the total inability of the two serial killers to actually kill anyone. Thus the number of mislynches required for the Deadites to win the game was too much, and we were hunted down and lynched. This wasn’t the only time I’d seen it, but it crystallised the realisation that the SK is a net asset to the Scum in the early days. In post [post=11931295]841[/post], Peeker expresses disagreement, claiming the chance of the SK hitting scum are too high. I replied with [post=11931460]845[/post], making a back-of-the-envelope calculation showing that the most likely single result is the one scum want. My contention was therefore that, in the absence of mitigating factors (which I chose to ignore for first approximations) the scum would be better off on average leaving the SK alive in the early game. This was a rebuttal to the contention that the SK was too likely to hit scum in the early game. In post [post=11931661]848[/post], Peeker brings up that a scum is more valuable to the scum team than a townie is to the Town. While true, I dispute that it affects the topic under discussion, which is that _over a long series of games_ the SK will advance the cause of the scum more often than that of the Town, and in a considerable number the SK will have no impact. Post [post=11931697]849[/post] : Red Skeezix tries to suggest that I’ve used the wrong starting numbers for the size of the game, which is true, although I doubt that it invalidates my conclusion, and that the game involves strategy. He neglects the strategy considerations **for the SK** – which dictate that the SK needs to shrink Town in the early game. In other words, in the early game the aims of the scum and SK are the same – they both want to reduce the Town numbers significantly. If you look at the votes against me, this is when they start to pile up. Red here pings me because he’s trying to fuzz what I’m saying. Freudian Slit votes me in [post=]851[/post]. I’ve already discussed this; she’s she’s using a hypothetical construction as a confession. Poor vote. I don’t intend to vote her right now, absent a counterclaim. The argument that she should have claimed Yesterday appears to have some _prima facie_ merit and maybe that should be looked at. Mahaloth votes for me in post [post=11932114]855[/post] based on strategy differences. Bad vote. Meeko votes me in post [post=11932141&postcount=856]856[/post], not exactly giving much reason and (again) ignoring that the statement of mine that he quotes is a hypothetical. Finally Red Skeezix, in post [post=11933565]871[/post]. shows he’s missed the entire context of post 845. Either that or he’s chosen to suppress it in order to divert the lynch from Freudian Slit. All in all I think that looking at my bandwagon, Red Skeezix stands out. He’s pushed it based on a misinterpretation of what I said. Now, while I could have expressed myself less ambiguously in at least one place, it’s not where Red has picked on. Red has ignored the full context of the discussion, has cast doubts on my analysis but then not actually considered the strategy of the SK, and has effectively diverted attention from an FS lynch for the second Day running. **Vote Red Skeezix** I have a secondary suspicion, which is Mahaloth, based on the weak reasoning for his vote. FS and Meeko are less so, because they based their vote on one of the statements that I could have, on reflection, phrased a little more clearly. On preview : Currently Mahaloth and I are tied on four votes. I could switch for self-preservation, but I want my major suspicion recorded while I go and review Maha’s posts. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/908 "2009-12-30T01:20:09Z")
Uh, are we tied then. Can I at least get a vote count before the end of the day? I’m vanilla town by the way. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/909 "2009-12-30T01:21:09Z")
NETA: Are we tied then? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/910 "2009-12-30T01:24:25Z")
Is this the correct, but unofficial vote count? I want to know where I stand with all this last minute swapping. 4 Votes \*MHaye Red Skeezix (849), Freudian Slit (851), Mahaloth (855), Meeko (856) 4Votes Mahaloth (1 #728) Tom Scud MentalGuy Guiri, Peeker 2 Votes Freudian Slit (6 #867) Drain Bead (707 891),), ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies (779 817), Alka Seltzer (835), Tom Scud (859 873), USCDiver (865), GuiriEnEspaña (867 874) 2 Votes Tom Scud (2 #751) ToeJam (737), storyteller0910 (751) 1 Vote – Red Skez MHaye ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/911 "2009-12-30T01:30:17Z")
> [@MHaye](#): > > On preview : Currently Mahaloth and I are tied on four votes. I could switch for self-preservation, but I want my major suspicion recorded while I go and review Maha’s posts. Ok here it is. I think scum would make a self preservation vote so that we’d have to waste the next day lynching them. You have not done this. Not doing so is a dumb play for scum, but I’ve sat in your shoes before as town and made the same choice as a last ditch effort to convince people that I’m town in a close vote. I know that this puts me high up on the lynch list for last minute vote changing, but I’m going with my gut. **unvote MHaye** I wasn’t too suspicious of Mahaloth until the early part of today when he placed a lurk vote in short succession with Tom Scud. Looking back, he seems to be flying low, especially with the continued voting for absentee players. **vote Mahaloth** On preview I see that Maha has claimed vanilla town, so I don’t feel so bad about switching. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/912 "2009-12-30T01:31:51Z")
hey, **skeez**? ever had a vig knock at your door at night? ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/913 "2009-12-30T01:33:03Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > hey, **skeez**? > > ever had a vig knock at your door at night? Come knockin’ you’ll see my true **color**. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/914 "2009-12-30T01:33:03Z")
Yeah, well, that’s how it goes. Another vanilla town out of the game, which reduces the pool for scum! Go town! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/915 "2009-12-30T01:34:23Z")
So, red skeeziz is comforted in killing a vanilla town? Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/916 "2009-12-30T01:36:02Z")
By the way, this last minute pile-on is very suspicious as well. Hmmm… ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/917 "2009-12-30T01:38:56Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > So, red skeeziz is comforted in killing a vanilla town? Interesting. When switching a vote late, with the possibility of you not being here and being the detective. Absolutely. I almost didn’t switch, I had been sitting on that post for a while WiFoMing my self to death about the decision. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/918 "2009-12-30T01:46:53Z")
hey, **freud** protect your ass. it’s wifom a little with you but not so much with moi. good luck town, i am going to shoot tonight. but i really don’t expect to see the dawn. go dick go. you’ll have three tomorrow. let 'em rip. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/919 "2009-12-30T01:52:21Z")
My apologies. We’re still unpacking between rain showers and dealing with my mother-in-unlawfulness who wants to do “fun” things like go shopping at Bed Bath and Beyond in the middle of the chaos. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/920 "2009-12-30T01:53:46Z")
Well, looks like I’m a goner for sure. Ed, I’d like to be spoiled as soon as I’m out. Please PM me the info. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729.md?page=45) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729.md?page=47)